Diablo® III

Paragon 2.0 question

Thanks for all the posts! I'll make sure the feedback gets passed on. :)

In the meantime, please feel free to continue to share your thoughts and suggestions. Although all the details for Paragon 2.0 have not been finalized and you've yet to get your hands on the system in game, even theoretical discussions like this are valued. As we reveal more about Paragon 2.0, we certainly anticipate (and encourage) more feedback too.


I'm curious. Will we keep our "icon"? (the ones for level 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, etc)

Will we get new icons for sharagon?
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Community Manager
I'm curious. Will we keep our "icon"? (the ones for level 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, etc)

Will we get new icons for sharagon?


Don't have any info just yet about Paragon portraits. I'll add that note into the list (just as an FYI).
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Thanks for all the posts! I'll make sure the feedback gets passed on. :)

In the meantime, please feel free to continue to share your thoughts and suggestions. Although all the details for Paragon 2.0 have not been finalized and you've yet to get your hands on the system in game, even theoretical discussions like this are valued. As we reveal more about Paragon 2.0, we certainly anticipate (and encourage) more feedback too.


Please do not limit player's choices for paragon spending. I would appreciate the freedom to choose which stats are boosted and when to boost them.
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My biggest concern with the current system is that every single P800+ character has identical point distribution except in the core stats. This isn't a "maybe", it's an absolute.

Ways to alleviate this problem:
1. Eliminate round-robin distribution

2. Balance the bonus-per-paragon-point on each option to ensure that something like crit chance is NOT a no-brainer to max out first. Yes, there is a value at which CC is not always worth it. Maybe it's 0.1% CC per paragon point. Maybe it's 0.05%. Whatever that value is, find it.

3. Replace the 50-point hard caps with dimishing return soft caps.

My second biggest concern is that a player never wants anything other than their main stat + VIT.

Ways to alleviate this problem:
1. Give STR, DEX and INT some additional interesting properties. How about multipliers for other stats? For example, STR doesn't need much help, so maybe it's just a Thorns multiplier. This is a great area for diminishing returns.

2. Provide players with some kind of bonus (or penalty) that affects the player based on their lowest core stat. Players will consider boosting their lowest stat to increase their bonus (or reduce a penalty).
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frankly. I think more should be done about offstats.

heck, I tihnk the mechanic of

str = armor
dex = dodge
int = ar

should be removed altogether.

instead, we should have a pool of points based on something like

(3 * Primary stats + secondary stats) forming the pool of points.

then you can choose to allocate into armor/dodge or allresist.

sure, there is a cookiecutter formula in a way that.
a) you will want 20-30% dodge at the very least, (500-1000 points into dodge) then the rest equally spread between armor and ar
but you will spread armor and ar in such a way that it fits your gear anyway, so everyone will add slightly differently but equally efficiently

it will make gear like the grandfather, taskers and theo, blackthornes jousting mail, mara's kaleidoscope not so stupid

you can also make secondary stats have more value by
eg:
the sum of secondary stats gives you a % chance to generate resource on kill. or increase lifesteal's inferno nerf modifier etc.. (basically right now, once you have 500-600 points in your secondary stat, its good enough)
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I want to remember you guys one more thing.
One of the main reasons for paragon levels are GEAR SWAP.
you guys complained about this and create magic find with paragon.

IF i cant MAX my MF with the points i will get from lvl 100 paragon.

GEAR SWAP IS BACK. JUST IT.

this game is TOTALLY SUCKS for drops if we dont have max MF.
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Spending paragon points into these categories would be nice:
-Gold find %
-Magic Find %
-Increased Gemfind%
-Increased quality of gems found (would have to be seperate from gemfind% otherwise overpowered)
-Exp increase %
-Increased Minimap Clearage % (Eventually showing Elites, Events and if high enough level rare equip)
-Increased Run Speed % (wont apply while attacking or using skills)
-Increased "Cooking" Skills (Better able to control the outcome of crafted items,or increased chance to be able to "salvage" a specific stat from one item, to pasting it over another stat on another item. <Copy-pasta success%>)
-increased gold/health pickup radius
-increased item pickup radius (since drops are individualized there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to autopick to some degree, not for stats... just by level and rarity, or possibly selecting what crafting items or gems we'd like to see it autopick)

i don't believe paragon points should be able to increase offensive or defensive abilities in any way, i know gold/health pick-up kind of skirts the edge of the line but thats as close to that line as i'd get

also... should be able to respec our paragon points... for a fee, not an outlandish fee... maybe 2.5 mil? (if you think it should be cheaper let me know)
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besides no attack/defend adj's. i also like to see no stat adjustments... we already know what everyone would probably pick... and then what would be the point.
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@Lylirra could you share any information on how the paragon2.0 will be introduced, in terms of the acquired stat points, mf&gf we have gained during our paragon leveling? I have not seen this question in forums so far and I am curious whether we can keep for example the extra mainstat/vitality on our high paragons as a reward for our hard work. Obviously max gold and magic find on RoS release day wouldnt make that much sense, but the extra max. 300main/200vita does not sound that OP. A fresh character couldnt reach the same state as an old one if we could keep it though so I am guessing these stats will be substracted, just hoping for a clarification here! :)
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So there wont be any Paragon experience loss, if a HC char dies?

This is sooooo non-Hardcore. its hello-kitty-softcore! plz plz plz think about it!
If you see a paragon lvl 800 HC player this should mean: "WOW. he got para lvl 800 with only those chars, which are currently alive!!!"

Blue-Post would be great! :)
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I think I added a sufficient number of caveats to my previous post, but let me go ahead and reiterate: Paragon 2.0 is still very much in development, and nothing is set in stone at this point. The system will likely undergo several changes (based on testing and feedback) before it ships.

So, on that note. For those of you who've voiced a dislike of the Paragon 2.0 mechanics quoted below, what kind of functionality would you prefer to see instead? (And most importantly, why would you prefer that functionality over the one currently being considered?)

- What category a Paragon Point can be spent in will be determined by what Paragon level you earn. Paragon level 1 gives you a point to spend in "Core Stat," Paragon level 2 gives you a point to in "Offensive," Paragon level 3 gives you a point to spend in "Defensive," and Paragon level 4 gives you a point to spend in "Utility" (or "Adventure"). Each Paragon level past that follows the same pattern.

- All categories other than Core Stats (DEX, INT, STR, VIT) have a cap on the number of points that can be allocated to them, which also means there is a cap to the total number of points that 3 of the 4 categories can have. At present, this means if you reach Shared Paragon 800, you will have maxed the number of points that can be allocated to the Offensive, Defensive, and Utility categories and all future Paragon levels you earn will grant you a point in the Core Stat category instead.


While simply saying "yes, I like this" or "no, I don't like this" is totally legit feedback, digging a little bit deeper into the details helps us get a better feel for what kind of experience you're really looking for.

Thanks!


I would like to be able to spend my points where I like, rather than be forced to pick defensive or utility points and waste half my paragon points.
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My biggest concern with the current system is that every single P800+ character has identical point distribution except in the core stats. This isn't a "maybe", it's an absolute.

Ways to alleviate this problem:
1. Eliminate round-robin distribution

3. Replace the 50-point hard caps with dimishing return soft caps.

I completely agree. These two points are some of my largest concerns.

1. If the developers are afraid that players are going to spend all their points in one or two places, then perhaps they can incorporate caps on the amount of points you can spend. This cap will increase as you in paragon level.

2. Yes, this will definitely be more desirable. That way you can still progress in the stats you prefer, albeit with less potency over time. That way it'll still feel like you're working towards the goal you want and not in the direction the game wants you to go in.

My second biggest concern is that a player never wants anything other than their main stat + VIT.

This is a big problem I have with the four attributes, it's that you only care about your main and vitality. I've never heard a player say "alright, I want to build intelligence on my barb to get more resist", no, they rather go straight for all resist.

No one cares to build outside what their class requires, and I feel that takes a bit away from decision making when building your gear, and it's going to have the same effect when you're building your paragon stats. I think adding another, smaller effect could help, like you said thorns on strength. It would also make less interesting stats like thorns more desirable, as you can then build a bit more effectively around them.

P.S. Don't know if it's been considered, but can health potion cooldown duration also be considered to the list of paragon stat points. It could make for an interesting choice. As I'm sure an "Alchemist" will be added to the game in the next expansion "wink wink".
Edited by Azjenco#2877 on 9/26/2013 5:57 AM PDT
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I want to remember you guys one more thing.
One of the main reasons for paragon levels are GEAR SWAP.
you guys complained about this and create magic find with paragon.

IF i cant MAX my MF with the points i will get from lvl 100 paragon.

GEAR SWAP IS BACK. JUST IT.

this game is TOTALLY SUCKS for drops if we dont have max MF.


I'm very interested in hearing Blizzard's comments on dealing with gear swap. That said, I have one idea:

If items from levels 64 and up never roll magic find on them, it means that players would have to gear swap down to level 63 gear to get MF. If monster damage and monster EHP increase exponentially throughout act 5, and level 64-73 gear also increases our stats exponentially, it's possible that level 63 gear will be completely unacceptable, even just for landing a killing blow. In other words gear swapping won't be worth it because you'd die instantly and/or be unable to finish off the elite.

I don't know why I bothered typing that up, because I doubt it will be true. So again, I'd really love to hear what Blizzard has to says about gear swapping in Paragon 2.0
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I think some stats in paragon 2.0 need to be change cause some of them not give benefit in some skill build for example Attack speed my wiz use arcane mines I can spam arcane mines on any mob if my attack speed not more than 1.90 but for my comfortable I prefer attack speed around 1.5 cause I don't want my attack speed to break 1.90 when I got APS shrine and in WD many build also don't like attack speed cause they need to manage their mana. I think change attack speed to average damage so all build happy here.

Some stats in paragon 2.0 are like repeat itself for example DEX and Dodge chance if I want dodge I can spend some point in DEX no big deal why need to have Dodge here? Change to Reduces duration of control impairing effects will be better? And Life% and Vita if I want HP I can spend in Vita anyway I suggest change to life per seconds here since blizz try to lower the impact of LS in the game.
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I'm curious. Will we keep our "icon"? (the ones for level 0-9, 10-19, 20-29, etc)

Will we get new icons for sharagon?


Don't have any info just yet about Paragon portraits. I'll add that note into the list (just as an FYI).


If I understand the new paragon 2.0 then the shared paragon that is account wide and gives you points to spend is different than the paragon level of your character. I will use and example, also remember we still do not know the conversion rates so I will make some numbers up to illustrate.

Let's say that you have the following classes and paragon levels right now.

DH: 100
WD: 87
Barb: 87
Wizard: 75
Monk: 60

Also let's say that the combined experience would equal 130. So then this is what would happen. The five characters above will get 130 points to spend while at the same time they will still be the same paragon level they are as marked above. They would not all instantly become paragon level 130, which would equal the shared paragon level.

If the above is correct then I do not see any problems for the HC player. Because you still have characters that are different as far as paragon levels goes. You would still know which ones have lived the longest. If the paragon level 100 bites the bullet then you would lose that demon hunter along with the paragon level of that DH. That will mean if you start another DH you will have to get it to paragon level 100 in order to get right back where you were before. Of course it will mean that you will be earning more shared paragon experience and gain even more points to spend.

If it is false and all characters are marked as the same paragon level as the shared paragon. Then I can understand the problem of HC and even SC would have a problem as well. There would be no way of telling how much each character has contributed to the shared total. That would further cause players to have even less of an attachment to their character. Because they would truly be all the same except for maybe the points that they spent.
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I can just foresee every other level or so being a drag because ive already maxed out all the stats that are good for by build and am now just given left overs or, on the other hand, i feel forced to get magic find before anything else because otherwise i wont find any good gear. That could change with loot 2.0 but even then im left needing to take stats i dont really need or in some cases (im saying this with WD zombie bears build in mind which, if i remember correctly, tanks attack speed) are bad for my build.
Do i get to elect to spend my paragon points somewhere else (as in, in a different category) or will those few lonely points sit there forever because they aren't wanted in a given build?
Or maybe just make it so a higher attack speed doesn't restrain resources as much >.>
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I only have one problem with paragon 2.0: no cap on paragon level.

So, just play the game with half a brain for long enough and eventually you'll become strong enough to overcome any challenge... Where is skill? Where is strategy? Pfff! And forget about PvP! I won't ever be able to compete against the average no-lifer... This incarnation of paragon 2.0 isn't final but if it really ends being like this then I probably won't be touching D3 again...

At the very least make paragon levels beyond a certain level only contribute with magic find and gold find instead of core stats, geez anything but core stats.
Edited by Abyss#2764 on 9/28/2013 5:20 AM PDT
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If I may say, one thing I LIKE about Paragon 2.0 is the swap to having an account level instead of individual character's levels.

So I can play my DH for a while and earn a few levels, swap over to my Crusader and voila! I have several more points to put on my Crusader as if I were playing it all along. No more having to level up each hero individually. I can swap as I please, and personally, I enjoy variety.

Because of this, I'm more inclined to get my other classes up to max - opens up a lot more options since I don't feel forced to focus on one class.
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is gold going to reset to zero on ladder?

y/n
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