Diablo® III

Chain Reaction is inferior to Obliterate

GASP!

Certainly the subject is trolling! No, not really. I would like to make the case that Obliterate is, in almost every case, superior to Chain Reaction:

Cons:
1. You lose some proc coefficient per target. Basically, your explosion will net you a little more than 1/3 of the APOC and life-on-hit that it used to if you are hitting the same number of targets

Pros:
1. Damage is more frontloaded, so anything that would be killed by the 2nd or 3rd blast from chain will die sooner
2. The AOE is the same as frost nova, so you can hit everything you freeze with every explosion. Also, this lets you stand well outside of melee range so that things that pop out of freeze for an instant, such as bosses, can still never get a swing off against you, while you can still land all of your DPS. Also note that vs. large crowds, this single fact will largely offset the penalty from the single con of the build. Allow me to demonstrate:

3.14 * 12^2 = 452 sq.yds
3.14 * 18^2 = 1017 sq.yds

That means that you can hit 225% the number of mobs per explosion.

So to recap, you give up some procs from your AE, which is not that bad since most procs are from your whirlwinds/meteors, but you gain +125% more area covered and the ability to stand outside melee range of bosses and things that can unfreeze and smack you briefly.

Give it a shot, I promise you will like it.
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When you have CM lowering your cool downs that much, you can instantly cast EB again so it's continuous explosions for 97% x3. That's already more than 225%. The range is negligible IMO since nothing really hurts you because they're frozen anyway. Also, smarter players will let the mobs creep it slowly so they'll be in range. 297% is better.

Also, I think Chain Reaction's proc coefficiency is spread out across the three explosions so the one explosion from any other rune is the same as Chain Reaction's three.. it has no advantage.

Also, I think most posters here play MP10... you need a LOT of DPS to be able to kill mobs by the second explosion if you're in a full game. The 72% difference will be noticeable.
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OP Placed Cons before Pros. This is unheard of and outside the box. Definately unsure about this.
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09/19/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Nebuul
Give it a shot, I promise you will like it.


I gave it a shot, and hated it. You broke your promise.
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Tried it before as well and strange as it sounds, the instant blast means the timing of the mjashing of buttons for DS/FN/EB is messed up esp. when you have to spam EB more.
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09/20/2013 06:02 AMPosted by Bangarang
OP Placed Cons before Pros. This is unheard of and outside the box. Definately unsure about this.


I know.

Mind = blown

I stopped reading after "cons". I couldn't wrap my head around it either.
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Right, so there's a couple of things I think you are missing.

First, the proc coefficient of all other runes (other than CR) is 3x the proc coefficient of CR..so you proc just as often, on average. You do lose "smooth" flow with the "one-off" runes, but that's it.

The increased range of Obliterate is nice against trash..but once you get down to E's, this becomes a losing proposition with every cast. The total amount of weap damage percentage (225 vs. 291) begins to add up against you, if we can assume that we are casting 1 obliterate per 1 CR. 66% against trash? Who cares - the increased range is totally worth the trade as your square footage math demonstrates. However, against an E, especially a yellow, this 66% weap damage turns the tide against you, and right quick. And at that point, you're also losing that smooth LOH and CM spam that makes me look at this rune and just say, "nope."

I DO use obliterate. I also use Time Bomb. I prefer time bomb..because of the 315% weap damage...to me, if at full wind up, I have to choose a single one off, I choose time bomb. At least against E's, I'm doing the same amount of LOH/CM Procing as Obliterate, with 90% more weap damage than Obliterate. I find it to be far more well rounding than Obliterate.

Look, we all melt trash, and fast. It's cutting down those E times that's important, at least, for me.
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i also prefer time bomb as my single blast choice if not using CR
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09/20/2013 06:02 AMPosted by Bangarang
OP Placed Cons before Pros. This is unheard of and outside the box. Definately unsure about this.


I was taught that whenever I want to convince people of one position I should explain the opposing position first. So in this case if I'm pro Obliterate, I'll explain to you the cons first. And afterwards, by the time I'm finished with the pros, everyone will already have forgotten what the cons were.
I guess this mostly applies to presentations though. Doesn't work quite as well in forum posts :P
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I used it a lot back in the day, during CM/WW's developmental stage, ya know back when most of us were still using prismatic armor. I think it's okay for other twister runes because you hit more stuff with the bigger AOE. I did notice a small loss in effectiveness/efficiency/whatever you wanna call it vs. bosses and yellow elites because of the lower proc rate and damage of obliterate.
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So is obliterate a better choice for trash farming then? Skipping elites is certainly a valid farming method, particularly with the renewed interest in XP farming.
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09/20/2013 03:37 PMPosted by zylog
So is obliterate a better choice for trash farming then? Skipping elites is certainly a valid farming method, particularly with the renewed interest in XP farming.


I have tried them all and while Obliterate looks good on paper it is not as good as either CR or TB in practice imo.

I seem to have a slightly faster kill time on elites if I use CR but for trash farming, TB is without a doubt the best rune, provided you know how to use it.

For solo trash farming, skipping elites all together or getting 5 stacks and then skipping elites, TB is the way to go. The main point of TB is trying to reduce windup which requires some practice in timing when to move on to the next pack. It differs abit, for example in FoM it's easier since the mobs have more hp and you have a bigger margin of error while in Zombie land: Weeping Hollows and Decaying Crypt, you need to move faster to keep from having to wind up on the next pack.

Also, for trash farming, especially in Act 1 where 99% of the mobs are melee, there really is no need for the extra range of Obliterate. Instead, do as someone allready pointed out, freeze as little as possible to let the mobs get close, to keep your DF buff up or for getting out of hairy situations and applying you CB buff. If you can use it without hurting your survivability too much then GC and only freeze to keep your DF buff up might be better edps in the long run.

TB being the best choice for trash farming is by no means anything new though and while some may have forgotten, Shandlar said this a long time ago when farming Keeps 2 was the way to go so credit where credit is due :)
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Shandlar is where I for my information from.
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Obliterate takes an attack turn. Chain Reaction does not. This fact alone pretty much ends this thread.

Still, in the interest of science, I would be interested in seeing some experimental evidence to back up your claim. Text is nice, but it's not proof.
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09/20/2013 11:03 PMPosted by mzy
Obliterate takes an attack turn.

What? No
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Obliterate takes an attack turn. Chain Reaction does not. This fact alone pretty much ends this thread.

Still, in the interest of science, I would be interested in seeing some experimental evidence to back up your claim. Text is nice, but it's not proof.


None of the Explosive Blast runes take an attack turn, they only seem to do so if you use them when you are not attacking with any other skill, since they have an animation associated with them.

As for the OP, I used Obliterate when I first started my CM build, but quickly found that the ability to stack Chain Reaction with insane cooldown reduction gave faaaaaaaar more benefit than Obliterate's slight range upgrade.
Edited by Kaniran#1890 on 9/22/2013 4:09 PM PDT
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