Diablo® III

Crusader and the Templar

As I understand it, they are both holy warriors fighting demons and what not. Are they both from the same order? They both follow Zakarum right? And how will they interact in game? Will they personally know one another or something?
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more importantly, can I give my templar a 2h wep so he stops being so useless?
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Different orders, same zealotry. In game dialogue confirms the Templar is from a small self-disciplined order that recruits adults and uses brainwashing/torture. The order is a front and corrupt but the details won't come out til the expansion. It had something to do with fighting angels.

The crusader is of the Zakarum order, same as the D2 paladin. Zakurum is much larger as its the dominant faith in sanctuary. They also give up their identities upon joining but its supposedly still a holy order meant to cleanse corruption. The crusaders being their best of the best. Leaked lore says the crusaders vanished for 200 years and resurfaced when the falling star hit like the others.
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09/23/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Cerberus
Different orders, same zealotry. In game dialogue confirms the Templar is from a small self-disciplined order that recruits adults and uses brainwashing/torture. The order is a front and corrupt but the details won't come out til the expansion. It had something to do with fighting angels.


Actually, those details are in the game if you uncover all of the Templar's dialogue options (some are easy to miss). Kormac discovers all of the above, but the storyline is left hanging a bit. It's the resolution that it seems we'll get in RoS.
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Community Manager
09/23/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Cerberus
Different orders, same zealotry.


This is a pretty good summary of their differences.

The Templar order remains an enigma to many on the outside, and there are rumors abound regarding their exact founding and purpose. Though the Templars profess a dedication to the Light and seek to rid Sanctuary of demonic corruption, they are not officially sanctioned by the Zakarum church, while the Paladin and Crusader orders were founded within it. Rather, they have risen from the ashes of the Paladin order after it fell to corruption, and they view themselves as the new, pure continuation of that faith.

As for Paladins and Crusaders: A long time ago, the Paladins headed west under the command of Rakkis seeking conquest, a historic march which ultimately ended in the founding of Westmarch. Meanwhile, the Crusaders – an elite group of fighters who rallied under a different Zakarum leader – headed east on a secret mission to search for a way to cleanse their faith of the perceived taint left behind by Mephisto. Unlike the Paladins, the Crusaders have never been corrupted, and in their journeys abroad have honed new skills and talents that set them apart on the battlefield.

To put it a different way, think of the Crusaders as the “veterans of the veterans.” They take zealotry to an entirely new level, finding comfort and strength in their unshakable confidence in their cause. Their only goal is to find a way to save their faith; any other objectives will fall to the wayside should it ever threaten to impede their quest. Whereas the Paladin might meddle in a town’s affairs -- settling disputes, converting new followers, burning some witches -- and then move on, the Crusader, despite brandishing a similar level of intimidation, would quietly enter the town, ask a few questions, restock their supplies, and then depart, leaving little more than confusion in their wake. (To give you perhaps a more relatable image, if you were put a Crusader in space, he’d probably be a lot of like Hicks in Aliens. Very experienced, a little easy going on the surface, but doesn’t fool around when stuff hits the fan.)

More specific details on the Crusader will, naturally, be covered in Reaper of Souls (as well as in Acts I-V). However, if you really dig that sort of lore, definitely keep an eye out for the Book of Tyrael. You can expect to find some good juicy historical tidbits on several of the orders, the Crusader's included.
Edited by Nevalistis on 9/25/2013 10:39 AM PDT
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I just want the Crusader to have some "tank-esque" skill. Firing shells of holy artillery sounds boss.
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09/24/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Cable01
I just want the Crusader to have some "tank-esque" skill. Firing shells of holy artillery sounds boss.


How about flying hammers? You will have those.
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09/24/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Nevalistis
the Paladins headed west under the command of Rakkis seeking conquest, a historic march which ultimately ended in the founding of Westmarch. Meanwhile, the Crusaders – an elite group of fighters who rallied under a different Zakarum leader – headed east on a secret mission to search for a way to cleanse their faith of the perceived taint left behind by Mephisto


This throws me off since in D2 they were constantly heading east, and of course, the Paladin was a part of it.
Am I just missing something or is this an oversight?
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However, if you really dig that sort of lore, definitely keep an eye out for the Book of Tyreal.


Was always wondering, why you guys sometime name him Tyreal instead of Tyrael. I think it has to do something with native english speakers, or english (american) culture in general. I would never make such a mistake, but english is not my first language.

Especially that typical angels have their name ending with -el which stands for god, as i learned.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16740
So does that mean the Paladin order is totally gone, with its survivors swept up into the Templars, or does it still exist, albeit diminished along with the Zakarum church?
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09/24/2013 06:13 PMPosted by Cormag
So does that mean the Paladin order is totally gone, with its survivors swept up into the Templars, or does it still exist, albeit diminished along with the Zakarum church?


Sounds like the paladin order was destroyed after Mephy was defeated. And whoever was left that wasn't corrupted, i.e. the paladin from D2 was probably absorbed into the Crusaders. The templars seem to be an outside organization, really right wing. Seems they maybe corrupted at the core with the hints to their practices and the whole brainwashing thing. It wouldn't surprise me if Inarius or someone like him was the leader of the Templars.
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This throws me off since in D2 they were constantly heading east, and of course, the Paladin was a part of it.
Am I just missing something or is this an oversight?


They're two different events. The Paladins headed west conquering territories and advancing their faith (i.e. they weren't chasing down the Dark Wanderer at that time).

In D2, the Paladin, who was in the Act I locale as a result of the Paladin expedition, got wind of evil monsters lurking in the Den of Evil, which eventually led to the Dark Wanderer.
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 9/24/2013 8:06 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16740
This throws me off since in D2 they were constantly heading east, and of course, the Paladin was a part of it.
Am I just missing something or is this an oversight?


They're two different events. The Paladins headed west conquering territories and advancing their faith (i.e. they weren't chasing down the Dark Wanderer at that time).

In D2, the Paladin, who was in the Act I locale as a result of the Paladin expedition, got wind of evil monsters lurking in the Den of Evil, which eventually led to the Dark Wanderer.


Pretty sure that's not right. Rakkis took his armies west and founded Westmarch centuries before the events of either Diablo or Diablo 2.
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They're two different events. The Paladins headed west conquering territories and advancing their faith (i.e. they weren't chasing down the Dark Wanderer at that time).

In D2, the Paladin, who was in the Act I locale as a result of the Paladin expedition, got wind of evil monsters lurking in the Den of Evil, which eventually led to the Dark Wanderer.


Pretty sure that's not right. Rakkis took his armies west and founded Westmarch centuries before the events of either Diablo or Diablo 2.


Europeans crossed the Atlantic centuries ago and stayed for good. Same principal.

However, I wasn't really arguing about when this or that happened etc. I was merely pointing out that the two events were just that, two events.

Edit: I can see how my post could be read as saying that the D2 Paladin was involved in said expedition. This was not my intent, rather the expansion of the Zakarum faith to that area provided a plausible reason why a Paladin might get caught up in tracking down the Dark Wanderer in that region of Sanctuary. Sorry for the confusion
Edited by RedCell#1728 on 9/24/2013 10:14 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
16740
Ah, no worries.

It's been a while since I played D2, much less as a paladin, but weren't they more or less knights-errant? Nice guys in robes were all well and good, but what really spread the faith was a guy in armor with a sword cutting off the heads of whatever monsters threatened your village, and doing so in the name of Zakarum.
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Really need a family tree or something, but just coming from some wiki editing, here's the lowdown:

-Protectors of the Word: Original paladin order, now defunct, safeguarded Zakarum missionaries into the West.

-Hand of Zakarum: Second paladin order, led by Rakkis, led the Zakarum hardline crusade into West, ended with the founding of Westmarch. Has since been corrupted along with rest of Zakarum.

-Knights of Westmarch: Separate group, remained in West, intent was to fight Prime Evils directly rather than waste time with "heretics" and "unebelievers," defeated Khanduras's army after Leoric's ordered invasion. The D2 paladin is a member of this order.

-Crusaders: Also spun off from Rakkis's forces, headed east instead (it's vague whether they spun off from the HoZ or KoW, but I got the impression it's the former, during Rakkis's actual crusade).

-Templar Order: Replacement for Hand of Zakarum, but not a bona fide paladin order (as per the blue post).
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09/24/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Nevalistis
(To give you perhaps a more relatable image, if you were put a Crusader in space, he’d probably be a lot of like Hicks in Aliens. Very experienced, a little easy going on the surface, but doesn’t fool around when stuff hits the fan.)


+1 for Alien reference!!!
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Let see for real historic references (all from Wikipedia):

Paladin :
The paladins, sometimes known as the Twelve Peers, were the foremost warriors of Charlemagne's court, according to the literary cycle known as the Matter of France.[1] They first appear in the early chansons de geste such as The Song of Roland, where they represent Christian valor against the Saracen hordes. The paladins and their associated exploits are largely later fictional inventions, with some basis on historical Frankish retainers of the 8th century and events such as the Battle of Roncevaux Pass and the confrontation of the Frankish Empire with Umayyad Al-Andalus in the Marca Hispanica.

Templar:
The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon (Latin: Pauperes commilitones Christi Templique Salomonici), commonly known as the Knights Templar, the Order of the Temple (French: Ordre du Temple or Templiers) or simply as Templars, were among the most wealthy and powerful of the Western Christian military orders[4] and were among the most prominent actors of the Christian finance. The organization existed for nearly two centuries during the Middle Ages.
Officially endorsed by the Catholic Church around 1129, the Order became a favoured charity throughout Christendom and grew rapidly in membership and power. Templar knights, in their distinctive white mantles with a red cross, were among the most skilled fighting units of the Crusades.[5] Non-combatant members of the Order managed a large economic infrastructure throughout Christendom,[6] innovating financial techniques that were an early form of banking,[7][8] and building fortifications across Europe and the Holy Land.
The Templars' existence was tied closely to the Crusades; when the Holy Land was lost, support for the Order faded. Rumours about the Templars' secret initiation ceremony created mistrust and King Philip IV of France, deeply in debt to the Order, took advantage of the situation. In 1307, many of the Order's members in France were arrested, tortured into giving false confessions, and then burned at the stake.[9] Under pressure from King Philip, Pope Clement V disbanded the Order in 1312. The abrupt disappearance of a major part of the European infrastructure gave rise to speculation and legends, which have kept the "Templar" name alive into the modern day.

Crusader :
This article is about the 11th–13th century religious military campaigns. For other uses, see Crusade (disambiguation) and Crusader (disambiguation).
The Crusades were religious conflicts in the High Middle Ages through to the end of the Late Middle Ages conducted by Catholic Europe against Muslims, pagans, heretics, and people under the ban of excommunication. The geographic spread included the Near East, Al-Andalus, North Africa, Eastern Europe, and Northern Europe. They are most popularly associated with campaigns in the Holy Land to establish control of religious sites but also cover other campaigns for different religious, economic, and political reasons such as the Albigensian Crusade, the Aragonese Crusade, the Reconquista and the Northern Crusades.
The adopted emblem was the Christian cross, with the term "crusade" being derived from the French term for taking up the cross. Pope Urban II proclaimed the first crusade in 1095 with the stated goal of restoring Christian access to the holy places in and near Jerusalem which led to an intermittent 200-year struggle to reclaim the Holy Land that ended in failure. The Crusades in the near east formed part of long running conflicts at the frontiers of Europe including the Arab–Byzantine Wars, the Byzantine–Seljuq Wars and loss of Anatolia by the Byzantine's after defeat by Seljuk Turks at Manzikert in 1071. Emperor Alexios I sought military support from Christian nations against a common enemy and Urban II looked to take advantage of the opportunity to reunite the Christian church under his leadership, enlisting western leaders in the cause.[1] Several hundred thousand soldiers became Crusaders by taking vows;[2] for which the papacy granted them plenary indulgences. The crusaders were Christians from all over Western Europe under feudal rather than unified command. There were seven major Crusades against Muslim territories in the east and numerous minor ones. Politics were often complicated and intra-faith competition also led to alliances between faiths against their coreligionist opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Islamic Sultanate of Rûm during the Fifth Crusade.
The Crusades had major political, economic, and social impacts on western Europe. The conflict between the Latin Crusaders and the Orthodox Christians hardened the schism between the two, resulting in a substantial weakening of the Byzantine Empire and leading to the final fall of the Empire to the Ottomans several centuries later. The Reconquista, a long period of wars in Spain and Portugal (Iberia), where Christian forces reconquered the peninsula from Muslims, was closely tied to the Crusades.
The conduct of the Crusaders was criticized by contemporaries such as Bernard of Clairvaux, who denounced it. The Crusaders ravaged the countries they marched through, killed 8.000 Jews in the Rihneland in the first of Europe’s pogroms, devastated the Mediterranean ports, fought amongst themselves as much as the Infidel, and fleeced their subjects to fill their coffers. Murder and massacre in the service of the Gospel was commonplace. Seventy thousand civilians were butchered in the sack of Jerusalem.[3] One crusading German Emperor drowned in Cicelia, a second held the King of England to ransom and a third was excommunicated as he set sail for Palestine.[3] However, from the fall of Acre, the last Christian stronghold in the Holy Land, in 1291 Catholic Europe mounted no further coherent response in the east.
Edited by Erakiel#1990 on 9/25/2013 1:11 AM PDT
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09/24/2013 04:20 PMPosted by Nevalistis
As for Paladins and Crusaders: A long time ago, the Paladins headed west under the command of Rakkis seeking conquest, a historic march which ultimately ended in the founding of Westmarch. Meanwhile, the Crusaders – an elite group of fighters who rallied under a different Zakarum leader – headed east on a secret mission to search for a way to cleanse their faith of the perceived taint left behind by Mephisto. Unlike the Paladins, the Crusaders have never been corrupted, and in their journeys abroad have honed new skills and talents that set them apart on the battlefield.


Another plothole? So Crusaders were formed around the time of Rakkis or after the events of Diablo 2? It is implied in the post that both divisions were formed at the same time but Rakkis Crusade was long ago (about few hundred years ago?) and Mephisto's corruption about 20 years ago.
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Mephisto was corrupting the Zakarum long before D2. Specifically, Mephisto was imprisoned in 1009 AK, while Rakkis's crusade occurred in the mid-11th century. So, 100 years for Mephisto to start having an influence (heck, the Zakarum's hardline approach in the crusade itself is likely testament to this), plus another 200 years of waiting for Mephisto's corruption to end (as in D2)...sounds about right.

Makes you wonder how the Crusaders feel. 200 years of crusading and some upstart paladin (and other heroes) does their job for them. :)
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