Diablo® III

Help me improve my Barbarian :) (2h ww)

Hey guys, I've tried a lot of different specs, but really like 2h ww with a nice LS skorn. If you guys could give me any advice on gear or spec I'd appreciate that.

One thing I'm having trouble with is not doing enough dps to elites, it takes a while to kill them. I thought about dropping bash for HOTA, but I'm not sure if I can do that.

Also, what kinds of things should I be crafting? Should I swap any gear around for set bonuses etc?

Thanks in advance :)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Amiar-1992/hero/12769543
Edited by Amiar#1992 on 9/26/2013 12:20 PM PDT
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SoJ is a must for elites, and yeah you'll want something more useful than bash on there.

My preference is OP:KS+hellfire for trash xp farming ( I barely ever do this because it bores me), HotA+HotA SoJ for VotA and keyfarming.

Would put the majority of your barb crafting into gloves and shoulders in that order. The RNG gods made the ammy easy for you...

You're going to want to hit the 1.67 breakpoint buffed to make fury smooth enough to run without a generator smoothly for elite farming (1.42 aps unbuffed). For trash farming, where you're at is okay.

I know my suggesting you to go IK helm instead of mempo makes this harder, but I suggested it so that you can keep your crit chance high enough to make fury smooth with a SoJ, and now it can be. For a skorn barb, IAS is pretty much a must-have in one of your rings and gloves.

So I'd switch the unity out for either an IAS unity, an IAS litany or an IAS rare ring of some kind depending on your budget and survivability comfort level.

The gloves have to have IAS and high crit chance. Str/IAS/CC/AR gloves tend to be really cheap, so do Str/IAS/CC/CD gloves. Take your pick, and then try to beat them with a craft.

Cheapest route would likely be putting AR on the gloves and skipping CD on them, and then getting a rare trifecta ring, but flipping which slot the AR goes and which slot the CD goes in will probably cost about the same, as good IAS (8+) litany and unity rings tend to be pricey. And go for the best HotA SoJ you're willing to pay for. 29% BvE + -3 reduction usually tends to be priced pretty reasonably with some patience.

Then the end game route is crit mempo, MS ice climbers, and either dropping lacs for crafted bracers, or inna's for rare pants, but this tends to be quite expensive.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/26/2013 2:19 PM PDT
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Silverfire. I was talking to Scrapz in game and he made a good point that I don't really need 24 MS, because sometimes I just end up outrunning the mobs. So I was thinking of dropping lacunis for rares right now and picking up IAS on gloves (IK gloves with 180/9.5/8)

The problem with that is my EHP stays about the same, my IAS stays the same, and me dps goes up like 6k >.> So I'm not sure if that is a good call just yet.

Right now I'm at 1.25 IAS and could get 16 more through ring/glove (and keeping lacunis) Do you think that is enough?

Also, if I use an SOJ (I've got a -3 hota/28 elite) AND an IAS ring then I can't use my hellfire, which makes me sad :(.

Do you think hota is good to use for WW, or would overpower/rend be a better combo?

Once again, thanks for the reply.
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All i can see is you need to stack more attack speed on your rings / ammy. It helps alot with a 2 hand skorn build.
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Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Silverfire. I was talking to Scrapz in game and he made a good point that I don't really need 24 MS, because sometimes I just end up outrunning the mobs. So I was thinking of dropping lacunis for rares right now and picking up IAS on gloves (IK gloves with 180/9.5/8)

The problem with that is my EHP stays about the same, my IAS stays the same, and me dps goes up like 6k >.> So I'm not sure if that is a good call just yet.

Right now I'm at 1.25 IAS and could get 16 more through ring/glove (and keeping lacunis) Do you think that is enough?

Also, if I use an SOJ (I've got a -3 hota/28 elite) AND an IAS ring then I can't use my hellfire, which makes me sad :(.

Do you think hota is good to use for WW, or would overpower/rend be a better combo?

Once again, thanks for the reply.

Like I said, in the situations where hellfire is good, SoJ is usually useless, and vice versa. Keep ww and rend always, but swap between OP:KS and HotA depending on what you're doing. 28/-3 is decent.

SoJ+ HotA for elites
Hellfire+OPKS for trash

I do not like the idea of dropping 24% MS at all. Some barbs can live with it. I can't. If I'm trying to get xp, I want to move as fast as possible. Outrunning the mobs is what you're supposed to be doing for trash farming anyways, and it's what makes barbs so fast. They should die behind you to rend and sprint tornadoes as you keep moving.

If I'm farming DE's, I need to move as fast possible from elite pack to elite pack to keep wotb up. Plus I just feel like a slug without it.

IMO you should be going for 42% IAS for stuff like vota, and losing either lacs or inna's will also rob you of a precious IAS slot. For a1/a2 xp farming you can get by on one of the lower breakpoints.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/26/2013 4:55 PM PDT
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Hi Amiar

Good to see you running with your Barb :). Silver is the man for Skorn advice.

The advantage of the Skorn is it's huge damage range and Hota and rend are the barb skills that take greatest advantage of this. So for a Skorn Barb they are the most effective skills.

I'm probably telling you stuff that you alreay know but WW/Sprint damage is calculated using both mainland weapon damage and ias. The damage increase though does not scale linearly but in steps. Thus you should aim to hit these break points fairly precisely as ias between these points is wasted and you should then stack strength, cd and cc.

If you aim to play purely a Ww/sprint based build, you'd probably be better off going dual wield as the damage you achieve with the higher breakpoint will generally outweigh the greater damage range of the Skorn. You would aim to get a high damage main hand and a cheap offhand stat stick.

Achieving higher break points not only increases the damage but increases the number of crit hits your tornadoes deal which feeds your fury and hence your wotb. You should aim to be in wotb most if not all of the time. With Skorn builds the guys will still use sprint to feed wotb as well as some combination of Hota and rend.
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He knows how breakpoints work, he just doesn't know what they are for barb :p

And he likes Skorns even more than I do...
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I agree with silver, 24% MS is optimal.

WW/rend mobs leaving a few mostly dead ones then sprint to the next pack. The monsters will follow you and die in your trailing tornadoes which feeds your fury until you get to the next pack.
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Thanks for the replies. I was also thinking of getting an LS belt and dropping LS on my skorn and just getting a higher damage one, but I'm not sure about that.

As far as the dual wield goes, I have a couple of budget weapons that I got ages ago, but I've never liked how they have performed vs. a skorn. If I'm not mistaken a 700-1500 damage range 1h mace is the preferred mainhand and then a fast offhand with all the stats.

Is that something I should look into? Once again, I've never liked the DW setup because, to me it just feels weaker than skorn, but maybe my weapons haven't been good enough. I also don't want to use an EF, because I don't want to be "that barb"

He knows how breakpoints work, he just doesn't know what they are for barb :p

And he likes Skorns even more than I do...


Skorn is the preferred method of distributing death across all characters on my account :) And I was looking at the BPs in one of the other threads, but not really sure what to aim for and how much sheet dps to lose to get there.
Edited by Amiar#1992 on 9/26/2013 5:09 PM PDT
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No one loves Skorn more than you do :)

Except maybe Death.... Nut he DWs too :p
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Also, I think you both underestimate how low my dps is compared to yours. I can't just rend mobs to death on mp10 -_- It sometimes takes a while lol.

Also x2, I was getting like instakilled in mp10 defiled crypt. I'd WW through a group of those summoned guys and they'd just wreck me. So I'm also thinking my mit or EHP might be too low :(
Edited by Amiar#1992 on 9/26/2013 5:13 PM PDT
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I started off using Skorn but I pretty we'll purely play DW now. Once you get the hang of the fury management, the pace is much faster.

EF is a pretty powerful weapon but silver hates it too :). It's like those Bell monks :)

Cold soj help, killing the monsters you make run away, WW around the edge of the mob and chase them in. And in solo it doesn't really matter :)

And yes, high damage main hand with a fast stat stick off hand whose actual dps number doesn't matter if you're playing pure WW. If you're going hybrid, damage range for both count.
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09/26/2013 05:10 PMPosted by Amiar
Also, I think you both underestimate how low my dps is compared to yours. I can't just rend mobs to death on mp10 -_- It sometimes takes a while lol.

Yeah...if you want to play optimally, that would dictate that you don't play on MP10 until you can one shot trash on a rend crit. Usually this requires rend ticks in the 400k territory IIRC. zylog and Chazhang have more exact values, but I'm not too up-to-date on them.

09/26/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Amiar
Thanks for the replies. I was also thinking of getting an LS belt and dropping LS on my skorn and just getting a higher damage one, but I'm not sure about that.

Not a good idea for Skorn. Like you already know all too well with the other classes, its biggest strength is being able to get 2 slots worth of LS on a single item. In the barb's case, this means allowing you to easily go for a witching hour while maintaining 5%+ LS, an advantage that dual wield doesn't have and that you give up if you drop LS on the Skorn.

09/26/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Amiar
Is that something I should look into? Once again, I've never liked the DW setup because, to me it just feels weaker than skorn, but maybe my weapons haven't been good enough. I also don't want to use an EF, because I don't want to be "that barb"

Don't listen to Morpheus, he's a bad influence. Skorn is BIS 4eva

But seriously, what I tell most barbs is to stick with what they're used to and the same applies for you. You're used to Skorn on your other characters, and lots of the same qualities apply with barb. You get the same huge heals at the cost of attack speed. If you want to try something different, try dual wield, but if you want to stay in your comfort zone I'd stick with Skorn. I'd feel weird on monk with dual wield, and as you know 1h WD was annoying for me to get into for similar reasons. I actually feel pretty comfortable on monk despite having very little playtime just because jumping straight to 6% LS made for a smooth transition feeling pretty similar to my barb. It's hard to break out of a mold you've built yourself into for the past few months.

09/26/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Amiar
And I was looking at the BPs in one of the other threads, but not really sure what to aim for and how much sheet dps to lose to get there.


The most common one is 1.67 buffed with wotb, 1.42 unbuffed. 42% IAS from gear. This is what I would recommend for now. You can go lower in order to bump rend damage to farm trash better later, but I would start out at a higher breakpoint as you learn how to permawrath effectively.

I'm at 1.83 buffed, which strictly speaking makes me weaker both in terms of dps and ehp, but its worth it to me because it gives me close to the smoothness of dual wield along with the healing power of Skorn. I won't go back to a lower one even though I'd stand to gain from doiing so.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/26/2013 5:25 PM PDT
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I'm trying to give points valid for most gear levels :)

Your ehp actually looks quite good. 61k life, 533 AR and 5764 armour. They could of course be higher but as they are, they are fine.

It might be that your sustain is more the issue. More damage will feed your life steal. I'd really try the things that silver suggests. My understanding is pretty rudimentary.

And next time we're on together, I've got some spare DW stuff you can try out and see if you like :).
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Hi mate

Your certainly getting a lot of good advice above and having recently converted from a LS skorn set up like yours, I thought Id pass on what was my previous build which I enjoyed and may yet go back to.

I was on a strict budget so I used a non CC mempo, I had a 265 str with 9AS and I think they are around 10 mil ATM.

I had a skorn similar to yours with LS, loved it and this kept other options simple. Ie, could use brawler when farming or “Tough as Nails” when HOTAing ubers to death.

I did use MS IC with crafted braces for a time, but after crafting a pretty nice set of Vit shoulders, this meant I could dump the crafted braces for Lacuni’s (I had 70 vit on my braces). Why did I do this? (apart from the obvious gain of AS), well if you need vit on your MS IC like I did, the gold I got for my IC with MS and vit was roughly the same as the Lacuni’s with a bit of str, AR and 5% plus CC. This was around 270ish mill at the time, may be different now. I also found that I was only one slot away from the next breakpoint again (with a SOJ).

I also had Innas (vit only, ie above 160ish at the time), AS Unity (8% with 4% elite damage) no AS on my Amulet (couldn’t afford it, or wasn’t lucky enough to craft one). Also a WH with AR on it too.

So, all this got me to the 1.67 Break point (which is a noticeable gain for sure) and as I kept my IK gloves with AS and Chest piece I also kept the 60 AR two piece bonus. I did test going to 12% MS only for a bit but found this didn’t work for me so thats why I opted for the lacuni’s rout.

Lastly, yes “tank HOTAering” as I call it (which is to sit in the one spot and HOTA with almost no loss in fury till bad guys are dead) is the aim of course and CC everywhere basically facilitates the ability (along with good AR and Vit) to do this. However, when I started to deplete my fury as I had about 29.5% CC at the time, I simply WW through the elite/pack, then HOTA, got low on fury and or life, WW through trash/elite pack, HOTA and repeat etc etc. Takes a bit longer but enables you to do it on a budget with a SOJ. Around the time I was 290k DPS buffed with SOJ and was doing over 2 mil Crits with HOTA to elites. With a monk I was seeing the odd Crit hit over 3.5 mil.

Anyhow, just my shared experiences so good luck with what ever you choose to do.

Cheers
CC123
Edited by CC123#1310 on 9/26/2013 5:59 PM PDT
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Also, I think you both underestimate how low my dps is compared to yours. I can't just rend mobs to death on mp10 -_- It sometimes takes a while lol.

Also x2, I was getting like instakilled in mp10 defiled crypt. I'd WW through a group of those summoned guys and they'd just wreck me. So I'm also thinking my mit or EHP might be too low :(

Probably doing something wrong but can't say what. As Morpheus said, your survivability stats on paper look fine to me. MP10 VotA would be a bit sketchy, but other than that, you should be cruising through trash mobs and most elites.

The big issue of course is that your DPS against trash is mediocre and your DPS against elites isn't going to be good without SoJ. There's no quick, cheap way to solve that.

I got for my IC with MS and vit was roughly the same as the Lacuni’s with a bit of str, AR and 5% plus CC. This was around 270ish mill at the time, may be different now.

I also had Innas (vit only, ie above 160ish at the time), AS Unity (8% with 4% elite damage) no AS on my Amulet (couldn’t afford it, or wasn’t lucky enough to craft one). Also a WH with AR on it too.

So, all this got me to the 1.67 Break point (which is a noticeable gain for sure) and as I kept my IK gloves with AS and Chest piece I also kept the 60 AR two piece bonus. I did test going to 12% MS only for a bit but found this didn’t work for me so thats why I opted for the lacuni’s rout.

Probably the most standard Skorn gearing route...and also what I used for months, except 8% litany was my choice instead of unity because I'm a wimp. Until I switched to trifecta ammy and ik irons, lac+inna to hit 1.83. Glassier and a hell of a lot more expensive.

Only thing is...you noted low crit chance. That's precisely why I suggest for him to go with the non-traditional IK helm instead of non crit mempo. I have an aversion to them with Skorn because fury is always at such a premium. I go crit mempo or nothing. (And I hate andy's) In my own gearing progression, I stuck with AR IK helm for months, saved up a few hundred million and went straight for crit mempo, without stopping for non crit mempo in between.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 9/26/2013 5:43 PM PDT
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Lol, yeah I often look at a litany and go......ummmmm.......ahmmmmmm......I should.

Also got so close to that next break point and kept thinking, I can craft a trifecta, I can craft a trifecta.

Have crafted three now actually, but each suffer from less than 6% CC, or less than 6%CC and less than 50%CD.

Im still crafting and going back for more RNG "Domestic Voilence and self abuse" as I call it.
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As far as rings go, is there any difference between going unity, litany or a rare? Should I just go for the most dps, or does the unity elite bonus push it above other rings? (theyre about 100m which is a lot for me :( )
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Main thing with unity is its average damage, high strength and elite bonus (up to 4%) combo. Without going into massive nerd like stats, basically HOTA works best with these atributes and of course, str counts towards your armour, so more is good. Litany is also worth checking out as it has strong defensive stats such as AR, regen and reduced damage affixes standard. I simply perfer Unity as the DPS increases are often higher. Rare rings are good but as you want to do more damge to elites, this is where Unities, SOJ's, etc etc come in to play and I find that if your acheiveing over 250k DPS with a SOJ (buffed) that is plenty on MP10 to take care of trash mobs as is. If your purely xp farming, some peeps go two rare rings as they like to kill trash mobs only in order to maximise their xp gain.

Here are some links to popular leg rings so you can get an idea of their core stats.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/litany-of-the-undaunted
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-wailing-host
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/unity

Cheers
CC123
Edited by CC123#1310 on 9/26/2013 6:35 PM PDT
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Thanks to morpheus and silver for helping out!

@morpheus I tried out your EF and dagger and I reaaallly like the fury management and how easy it is to stay in WOTB (a huge problem for me since I'm a barb noob). The thing I don't like about it is playing in groups. As a WD EF is my worst enemy and in a group it almost gurantees to lower the group dps. So I have a conundrum :(. Also, I don't know how I will fare when I buy my own dual wield weapons and they are like 40k dps lower than yours haha. That will be sad :(
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