Diablo® III

Call to Arms

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09/27/2013 12:02 PMPosted by Wayneold
I want time invested to actually matter.


It has to matter, or the game wont last.
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I think you're underestimating Blizzards goal of total equality despite gear & paragon level, Wayne.


Perhaps....I have tried to be an advocate of change for this entire process....but this is just one detail I can't get behind....

I want time invested to actually matter.


I think all of us who play the game a lot want time invested to matter.

But I don't think Blizzard wants to give anybody more than a slight advantage for logging a ton of hours. I think their mentality is that new players would be less likely to continue playing if they knew that it would take xxxxx amount of hours to match the top players. I get this sense from the direction they seem to be headed in based on the datamined info, and from the direction that WoW went before I quit playing that. I think they want the best gear to be only marginally better than mid range gear, and for skill/passive choice and actual ability to play the game to be the determining factor in whether or not you're considered good.
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09/27/2013 12:28 PMPosted by tomcruise
But I don't think Blizzard wants to give anybody more than a slight advantage for logging a ton of hours. I think their mentality is that new players would be less likely to continue playing if they knew that it would take xxxxx amount of hours to match the top players


That would be a big mistake. Even new players would want to be rewarded after a certain amount of play time, so a strategy like that would only last a short while. You have to have a carrot. Once the game reaches a saturation point, there wont be very many new players and that plan would go out the window.
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Perhaps....I have tried to be an advocate of change for this entire process....but this is just one detail I can't get behind....

I want time invested to actually matter.


I think all of us who play the game a lot want time invested to matter.

But I don't think Blizzard wants to give anybody more than a slight advantage for logging a ton of hours. I think their mentality is that new players would be less likely to continue playing if they knew that it would take xxxxx amount of hours to match the top players. I get this sense from the direction they seem to be headed in based on the datamined info, and from the direction that WoW went before I quit playing that. I think they want the best gear to be only marginally better than mid range gear, and for skill/passive choice and actual ability to play the game to be the determining factor in whether or not you're considered good.

FWIW, I don't think people like you and I really count in the "play the game a lot" camp.

I've got somewhere around 1200 hours across all characters. I'm guessing you have under 1k?

There's some people on my friends list in 3k territory...that's playing a lot. But I guess its all subjective.

They're running to the risk of making gear not matter enough, yes. As it is right now, I'd say gear matters too much, and the gap between a decently rolled item and a perfectly rolled item is too large, but it's kind of hard to put a finger on it because of the auction house. This is probably going to be one of those things that they're likely to mess up at first and will have to tune over time.

In my experience with crafting, getting 3 good random properties on an item takes a long but reasonable time. 4 is where things start getting unreasonable. I'd say the gap between 3 and 4 should be noticeable, but shouldn't be the difference between a usable item and an unusable one. I guess crafted gear isn't too bad as it is in this regard. Drops are horrible, but we all knew that.
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09/27/2013 01:17 PMPosted by GenghisKhan
But I don't think Blizzard wants to give anybody more than a slight advantage for logging a ton of hours. I think their mentality is that new players would be less likely to continue playing if they knew that it would take xxxxx amount of hours to match the top players


That would be a big mistake. Even new players would want to be rewarded after a certain amount of play time, so a strategy like that would only last a short while. You have to have a carrot. Once the game reaches a saturation point, there wont be very many new players and that plan would go out the window.


It may be a big mistake in your eyes, but it's obvious that they don't want a massive difference between low paragon and high paragon levels or they wouldn't be capping so many things at such low percentages. No matter what, as you gain paragon levels, your character gets stronger. And no matter what, those who are going to go hard at grinding levels to be the best will still grind levels to be the best; people that like to min/max go the distance regardless of the reward. Finding the best loot is what should be the intended carrot, while paragon level should be the side reward so you don't feel like you're completely wasting time if you don't get the carrot.

And it's not just new players that would be intimidated or turned away from a game that grants insane rewards to lots of time invested, it's anybody who doesn't have a substantial amount of time to throw at the game. Lots of people who are what we consider now the "best players" in game don't have tons of time to throw at the game, and if they had to log 10,000 hours WITH their best in slot gear to be on the same level as somebody in mid tier gear with 10,000 played, they probably wouldn't want to buy all the GG gear or even play the game for that matter.
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I think all of us who play the game a lot want time invested to matter.

But I don't think Blizzard wants to give anybody more than a slight advantage for logging a ton of hours. I think their mentality is that new players would be less likely to continue playing if they knew that it would take xxxxx amount of hours to match the top players. I get this sense from the direction they seem to be headed in based on the datamined info, and from the direction that WoW went before I quit playing that. I think they want the best gear to be only marginally better than mid range gear, and for skill/passive choice and actual ability to play the game to be the determining factor in whether or not you're considered good.

FWIW, I don't think people like you and I really count in the "play the game a lot" camp.

I've got somewhere around 1200 hours across all characters. I'm guessing you have under 1k?

There's some people on my friends list in 3k territory...that's playing a lot. But I guess its all subjective.

They're running to the risk of making gear not matter enough, yes. As it is right now, I'd say gear matters too much, and the gap between a decently rolled item and a perfectly rolled item is too large, but it's kind of hard to put a finger on it because of the auction house. This is probably going to be one of those things that they're likely to mess up at first and will have to tune over time.

In my experience with crafting, getting 3 good random properties on an item takes a long but reasonable time. 4 is where things start getting unreasonable. I'd say the gap between 3 and 4 should be noticeable, but shouldn't be the difference between a usable item and an unusable one. I guess crafted gear isn't too bad as it is in this regard. Drops are horrible, but we all knew that.


A lot is relative. I consider me logging in for 4-6 hour sessions multiple nights a week + weekend time a lot. I didn't say those who play the absolute most. Then again, because of the current state of the game I don't "play" the game "a lot". That just means I'm not in an actual game killing stuff 75% of the time because there is no real point to. I'm still on the game playing in the auction house and bsing with friends. So I agree that I don't "play" the game a lot, but I'd wager I'm on the game "a lot" more than most.

Also, you'd be surprised at the amount of hours I have in game. I don't have tons of elite kills because I never did the whole farm mp1-5 for exp BS (nor do I play low mp now). I stayed in mp10 and didn't give a crap about exp, hence why I was still level 50-60ish when higher mp levels got an exp buff.
Edited by tomcruise#1666 on 9/27/2013 1:34 PM PDT
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Disclaimer: I read this entire thread but it wasn't all at once so pardon me if I repeat what someone else has said.

Surely I'm not the only one that thought of this but...it seems Blizzard is attempting to put caps on gear for the ancillary and utility stats to offset the change in Paragon 2.0

Am I missing something? So, in essence, there's not necessarily a nerf in the strictest sense. It's just that if folks want to be as godly as they are now they'll have to invest more time to get there.

If that is the case and I haven't misunderstood what I've read (which is completely possible since I'm doing this at work and reading posts here and there when I can) then it sounds like Blizzard is attempting to fix the game in layers. Layers that all point to a focus of investing time in the game and being rewarded directly for that time spent.

And with the caps on gear (as Wayne mentioned) we should see many gear choices coming back into play. We won't be tied to the same boring gear to suit our needs. And if Loot 2.0 holds to what I've read then we should see the possibility of loot beginning to truly facilitate fun new builds.

To me it's all part of one big equation and I like the way it's going!
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