Diablo® III

Hopefully there is a limit on paragon respecs

10/05/2013 10:06 AMPosted by Diavolo
I forgot how the youth want everything served on a silverplatter, exactly what made WoW boring...


Guess you forgot that some people actually hold down a 40+ hour work week.

Not everyone that plays this game is a child.

So, it looks like you also forgot that more than kids play video games.
Guess you forgot that some people actually hold down a 40+ hour work week.

Not everyone that plays this game is a child.

So, it looks like you also forgot that more than kids play video games.


You got 10 lvl 60´s! Spare me...
10/07/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Diavolo
You got 10 lvl 60´s! Spare me...


I didn't say me, did I? Show me where I even used the word "I" please. I'll wait.
86 Draenei Hunter
7590
10/06/2013 01:01 AMPosted by Vencenzo


comparing D3 character builds to art, LMFAO! how dumb can one get? D3 character builds isnt art. Playing D3 isnt art. Hell, playing any game that isnt mario paint or ms paint isnt art. Get over yourself dude. What you do isnt art


Art
noun
The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination,

That's precisely what a build is.

Hmm...
In a somewhat shallow sense, yes, I suppose. I mean, really, in the same sense that picking clothes out of your closet is art.
You're given a multiple choice quiz, really. A narrow selection of choices, and you pick the ones you want to combine. It's not at all the same as starting with a blank canvas and creating something wholly from your own self.
10/07/2013 11:29 AMPosted by Grumm
I didn't say me, did I? Show me where I even used the word "I" please. I'll wait.


I didnt say all Diablo players where kids either, so where to go with this pointless discussion you brought up?
Blues please ignore this topic.

Free respects all around!
Going the direction of Skill tree is a dumb idea. Sure you have a few players who love to number crunch and figure what builds work best. Most players just want to find a good build and play the game. They don't want to build a character find out they gimped it and have to start over or mess with respects.

The Skill and Rune system in D3 is awesome. It allows you to try different abilities and find ones that you like and work for you. You can't gimp you're self in D3. The problem is that every one uses the same exact build. Almost all Barbarians for example go with whirlwind build. This is because it's the best build for that class. The same goes for all the other classes; they all have that one build that is the best and thus every one goes for that one build.

Now I'm not an expert on the expansion pack but when it's released I think where going to see a lot more diversity when it comes to builds. Legendary's will have tweaks if you will that will boost or effect certain skills. So basically what will happen is you will find that one build you like. Then you find Legendary's that will enhance those skills make it better. That's what I been able to gather any way. This to me is the best system of all. You can't gimp you're self. You can play around with builds. Then you search out for legendary's that will improve upon that build.

As for Paragon I don't think it's going to matter much. You only get one point per level and only towards a certain category and this is shared among all you're characters. So you level paragon you get one point towards say attributes. That's one point that you can give any of you're characters. So if you have one character for each class that's six if you include Crusader. Now I'm going to go out on a limb and say as you level paragon the amount of exp you need to level will go up. You're not going to gain enough points to really make a hell of a difference. Granted every point helps but not enough that you should worry about respect. This is one part of Paragon 2.0 that I laugh about.

It will take you ages to get all six classes capped out. No correction it will take you years do it. Unless you have flat out no life and devote you're self to the game. In short Paragon 2.0 is a joke. Personally I think they should leave it along but that's just me. I don't think it makes or breaks the game.

That's just my opinion.
My idea of a good sequal is to keep the ideas that worked well and then add new ones of course.


Limited respecs weren't an idea that worked well. They were an idea that worked badly. That's why Blizzard changed them in D3 in the first place.

The epidemic of rerolling if you put a point in the wrong place and needing multiple alts of the same class that plagued D2 was precisely what Blizzard wanted to avoid by adding respecs first to WoW and then to D3. And it worked. There's no way in hell (or even inferno) they're going to go back on that decision when it has been such a massive success in both of their big-name RPG franchises.

The next step will probably be allowing you to save an unlimited (or at least large) number of saved builds and swap to them any time you can respec normally. WoW already does this, but with only 2 slots, and wanting more of them has been one of the most requested features for years.

P.S. If there is any significant restriction like the 30 sec CD + NV stack drop on skill respecs, they might want to make an exception for spending points you just earned without removing/reallocating any of your previous points. Because it would be a completely (AFAICS) pointless hassle to stop playing for 30 seconds every time you gain a PLVL, even if it's not a big deal compared to the time it takes to earn those levels.
respec should be free. All the hard work goes into paragon. D3 isn't about re-rolling a character. It is about making your characters stronger and stronger over a period of time. Obviously Blizz is encouraging this since they have said there will be no limit to paragon exp.

@Sorath, I believe you are mistaken about the way paragon is shared in p2.0. All charaters on your account will get full paragon benefits. If you have 100 paragon points, every character on your account will get 100 paragon points.
Community Manager
I'm all for having the ability to respec, but I think both paragon and skill respecs neeed to have some kind of limiting factor. I don't think you should be able to change them on a whim.


We currently don't have any plans to limit the number of Paragon respecs, but it'd be cool to hear your thoughts on the subject. It'd be nice to have additional detail on why you feel one way or the other, so I'll write down a few questions to help guide the conversation.

  • Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?
  • How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?
  • What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?
Hopefully there is a limit to D3 respecs, and offline mode available!
I don't see any compelling cases for taxing respecs. It should NOT be a goldsink. We should be allowed to experiment with respecs as much as we want. If you put a price on it, you're limiting our flexibility and taxing our creativity.
hard limiting respecs will only works if theres lots more character slots and the journey from 0 to 70 is fun.
Let the people have there respec's in Peace! some ppl.........
Edited by Djvex#1182 on 10/7/2013 5:20 PM PDT
10/07/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Grimiku
I'm all for having the ability to respec, but I think both paragon and skill respecs neeed to have some kind of limiting factor. I don't think you should be able to change them on a whim.


We currently don't have any plans to limit the number of Paragon respecs, but it'd be cool to hear your thoughts on the subject. It'd be nice to have additional detail on why you feel one way or the other, so I'll write down a few questions to help guide the conversation.

  • Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?
  • How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?
  • What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?


  • I believe having unlimited paragon respec's is necessary to the game in order to change builds with greater ease. I really don't want to make another end game character just to experience a different build.

  • It would save me a lot of time to just respec my paragon points when I felt like changing builds.

  • If there absolutely had to be any limits in place, I wouldn't mind just a cooldown to respec. Maybe you could get one respec every day or so?


Again, these are my opinions and I look forward to other thoughts, and maybe a little constructive criticism. However, I would also like to ask whether or not it would matter too much after a player had maxed the three capped paragon categories. I guess a player might just want more vitality, rather than a main-stat on certain days. :)
Edited by tubbmister#1207 on 10/7/2013 5:25 PM PDT
What the hell is with this D3 Taliban attitude!?

New ways to limit the freedom and liberty of players!? What gives. This is sickening. If you don't want to respec, don't respec. Leave the other players alone.


I agree with you %100
10/07/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Grimiku
I'm all for having the ability to respec, but I think both paragon and skill respecs neeed to have some kind of limiting factor. I don't think you should be able to change them on a whim.


We currently don't have any plans to limit the number of Paragon respecs, but it'd be cool to hear your thoughts on the subject. It'd be nice to have additional detail on why you feel one way or the other, so I'll write down a few questions to help guide the conversation.

  • Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?
  • How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?
  • What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?


Unlimited paragon respecs means never having to think "Am I spending these points correctly". It means you maximize your time playing the game and minimize your time min/maxing--IF you want to.

If there was a limitation, I would make a cost to respec non core stats with a gem or brimstone or something. Without the AH materials can actually reflect time spent playing which means you must earn (in some easy way) respecing all the time because you just can't decide in life.
Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?


Because of the limited char slots, if I want to try a new build ,I cant just Make an additional character.

Instead of an additional character I have to respect an existing char.

If I find that I don't like the respect, or that the respect isn't a viable char, I would have to respect again because I cannot just switch back to the other char in the other character slot(which doesn't exist).

This is of course assuming that all my char slot are filled. When and if Ladder characters happen this situation will be magnified. Especially if I want to play ALL MODES.
10/07/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Grimiku
Why is limiting/unlimiting Paragon respecs necessary for the game?

I've already posted these earlier, but in case you missed that, here's a really good explanation of why limiting respec generally is a probably a good idea:
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-09-16-does-respeccing-your-character-build-in-diablo-3-make-you-less-happy

Here's a decent video explaining the psychological studies involved:
http://www.youtube.com/embed/LTO_dZUvbJA

10/07/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Grimiku
How does limiting/unlimiting respecs improve your game experience?

By creating the perception in the players (us) that our choices matter. Right now, the only meaningful choice we have in the game is out initial choice of character class; everything else is either randomly generation, or so easily undone as to have no perceived value at all.

More video links, discussing choice and the perception of agency, specifically in games:
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-feeling-of-agency
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-illusion-of-choice
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/how-much-agency-do-games-need
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/negative-possibility-space

10/07/2013 05:09 PMPosted by Grimiku
What sort of limits would you suggest, and why?

Again, I posted this earlier in the thread, but just in case...
1. Assign a gold cost to respec, and/or
2. make us go back to town (maybe have the Mystic or the in-town healer provide "absolution" services... for a small fee), and/or
3. make us find a shrine of absolution, and/or
4. make us use a token of absolution... basically a portable shrine (either a randomly dropped item and/or something you can purchase from the randomly-spawning merchants in the wilderness).
Any or all of these could change respec from something trivial and omnipresent into something that we have to go out of our way to do, something that costs to do; implement enough of them, though, and you can still keep respec reasonably available, for those that want it, and the availability or cost of most of them can be tuned as needed, to ensure that respec isn't too rare or difficult.
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