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Hi there, like Luffy said: PtV works. It´s viable, fun and very addictive. You could say that PtV is endgame. I first posted this 2 months ago to EU and promised to post here too. It took sometime as I didn´t play in 3 months. Anyhow´ yesterday evening I made a new clip at VoTA, 3 consecutive runs. So here we go.
For the last week, I´ve been testing a lot. I grinded with PtV, using different setups until I got it to work smoothly. By smooth I mean clearing faster than with the "bis" SV.
When you play without PtV, you´re always on full mana. Sometimes you go oom when chain cc´ed. Alarm bells are ringing.
PtV adds mana management. You´ve to think what to do, when to do and sometimes think a bit ahead.
PtV is very simple. It´s based on killing creeps before you go oom.
What does PtV require to work as intented?
-Mana regen and max mana
MR to keep channeling and recover mana fast when oom. Max mana for big mana pool to draw and for better mana returns from GI,GF and HG.
An example for 1H: 65 MR, 970 max mana with 1.65 aps does not work. Constantly going oom and with just 65 MR it takes too long to recover.
-SoJ with -cost to bats
Max mana and -cost is a bonus. A very good bonus but SoJ is used for the massive dmg boost vs elites. Bat ring can be -6,8 or 9/10. -6 is very cheap and enough to work. Like I said it´s the 30% dmg boost vs elites that makes the PtV work. Those that don´t believe in SoJ always calculate dps on paper for SoJ and for their ring of choise. It´s wrong. I´ve always believed in SoJ but PtV clearly shows just how powerful the ring is.
An example for 1H and 2H without SoJ: When you´ve voodoo and paranoia ready, you can kill the elites fast and it works. When there´s lots of creeps around you can kill the elites. If you do 3 VoTa runs in row, you´re oom vs 30% of packs. You go oom before the elites die which will result in deaths and waiting e.g it´s slow,boring and inefficient.
You need to get every mana bottle that drops. If you go oom cause you didn´t get the mana bottle, get more PuR. I recommend having atleast 10 yards. The more the better even thought the kill radius of CoB is limited, PuR makes the build work a lot smoother and you vacuum everything by just walking forward.
Needs to be high enough so that you can kill the creeps before going oom. I haven´t tested these for several reasons but having 200k should be enough. On the other hand, if you´ve 300k it might be too much, you might go oom cause too much ias but then you don´t even need PtV.
That´s right. I´m talking about flying solo. A build has to work in solo play, as a matter of fact I enjoy playing alone on soft more. Anyhow´ I used scoundrel. First I had to change his skills, slow,blind and multi shot away. Still elites often attacked him and it was annoying and he dies a lot (not giving the 3cc or 10% dps bonus). I took templar and the build started to work better. He gives you 4 additional MR. Don´t teach him skills that may interfere with CoB, I recommend getting all the skills from the left side. Give him high aps azure with high% freeze. A high block% storm shield, a token with high vitality and block%. Black´s cross and rings with ias. He never dies, he stays close to you, close to elites and his freeze is very solid, even better vs gobs than scoundrel with buriza.
1H & 2H:
PtV works with both. The differences are:
With 2H you don´t need armor, even 3.5k is enough to facetank everything with FA. Reflect does nothing. Gobs are easy to kill, so much easier than without PtV.
With 1H you need armor, even 4k armor and reflect causes deaths. I only got 2.6% LS so I need to be careful with reflect. I recommend getting atleast 2.9% LS. 1H get´s more MR which is gold when you need to recover.
Otherwise it´s more hits n crits with the chance for more vitality vs high crits n healing with better dots (locusts)
I was mojo shopping. Zuni is expensive and the only reason to use it is tal chest. That left me with Uhka and frog. Frog has godly PuR with MR and MM. You can get high Int/Vit. A good Uhka gives me +10k dps and 6% vs elites but I´d have to use PuR on other gear which lowers my dps by 6k. I lose MM and PuR so frog was an easy choise. Everything is situational, use whatever is best for you.
It´s a cookie cutter really but let´s break it down:
The more max mana, the more mana you gain. You need to time it before the elites cc you, before frozen explodes and always before you go oom.
SH:Swallow your soul/Vengeful spirit
Vengeful spirit is for 2H, it does dmg and pressing the button is full heal with that massive LS. With 1H the dmg is pathetic and the life return is weak. It took me almost a week to let go of that rune. I used languish which worked better but Swallow your soul is what made the difference with fast kills and going oom.
Haven´t used this in a while. Actually fun. Always use it so that you don´t hit the elites. Exception to the rule is that you would die otherwise. Sometimes it´s best not to use it at all. Allows tanking reflect and molten explosions. A mandatory vs reflect even for 2H.
Our greatest buff 30% dmg with 20% ias is too good to pass. When you need to kill fast. Best to be used vs champs and nasty blue packs that need to die fast.
Packs come near you, they usually come walking around you. That is the reason I love paranoia, it makes a huge difference in clearing speed. Eliminates all the enemy affixes and the 20% AoE buff around your CoB is godly. Sometimes the champ wanders away which is always annoying but only a minor con. Hex works aswell and it´s even better vs spinners, however sometimes you need to take out shocking guardians and skelly archers one by one, which will slow down.
Passives are set, nothing to add about em´.
VoTA MP10 with PtV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsnW6WZSi6g
I forgot to change Stalker to FA. There was one more pack in the last room, a blue blazing pack that killed me in 3s ^^ I left it out cause there was about 30s just walking to it.
NEW Clip, 3 consecutive runs at VoTA:
For para 100 and the way bliz patches the game, there´s only 2 things to do for me. VoTA and fields of misery.
On fields, there´s no need for SoJ. I´m using ias litany and the build looks like this.
Build for fields:
Pull 60+ creeps with locust´s, the more the better. Use Jaunt + Stalker when not pulling. Jaunt is used for protection, you can literally be invinsible 100% of time. Paranoia is always ready. Everything melts, it´s crazy. With 2H locusts kill frogs and bats alone. I skip all dungeons, they interfere pulling. All the other areas are way more boring than fields and the creeps on willow are too slow.
I hope you find the guide useful, enjoyed the video and give PtV a proper chance.
I mostly use CoB + PtV with skorn. My PtV experience agrees with yours.
With 1h sword and TotD, I tend to use this "lazier" PtV build:
It's a different favor...not CoB but PB...
My build had 70k HP and was at 2.0 attack speed...very high I would think...but still didn't go OOM in FoM (as long as you know how to lure mob using Locust)
This build, with PB, has more range (and totally make good use of PUR from TotD);
no need to wait the mob to walk toward u,
more forgiving in dealing with RD reflect,
work well even with CM Wiz (and monks who always pull mobs away from u :( )
Got a PtV related question for the forum.
I was wondering if it's worth it to use PtV on a 0dog set up? I mean to use PtV instead of say zombie handler.
While Zombie handler gives you 4 dogs to blow up I'm not 100% sure that all 4 are blowing up when in combat and blowing up dogs as fast as possible. When I keep my eye on the dog count I see it go 4,3,2...4,3,2...4,3,2 barely ever do I see it go 4,3,2,1 so I'm not sure if I'm getting the last 4th dog to blow up and do damage to mobs. This doubt I had about the last dog blowing up caused me to change out zombie handler in favor of PtV for the added damage.
Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me... not sure if I should change my passive back to zombie handler or if I should just keep it on PtV.
ok cool that answers it.
Apparently the passives have been tested against each other. So back to zombie handler... I guess I'll just wait the extra fraction of a second when casting to see the 4,3,2,1 to put my mind at ease.
Interesting to see heyguyslol isn't currently using zombie handler for paragoning his next wd. he's got grave injustice on instead for increased survivability(because he uses provoke the pack on sacrifice which is also my preferred rune) and for cool down reduction for BBV and mass confusion. I might want to try this build when I get to paragon lvling my 0dog.
Amazing work!Cheers mate. PB works wonderfully too. Nada problems at VoTA.
A great point was made at EU thread:
"But pierce the veil can surely be great if you first buy your gear first for mitigation and mana regen then DPS you can easily reach the same dps(or more if you resources ofc) much more cheaper."
Getting 300k dps with SoJ is very expensive in this tycoon/stock market/pay2win circus. Using PtV and you get away so much cheaper with a difference of a passive skill.
ok cool that answers it.
They will all summon and all blow up. You don't need to worry about timing anything.
Here are the details on the casting and sacrificing animation if you are curious:
SH:Swallow your soul/Vengeful spirit
I always thought the mana from Swallow was weak until I tried it. It's like have a max mana item and really works wonders with PtV (or any other super heavy mana build like Bears/PB.)
FoM is so crowded that you could even get away with higher aps.
I always thought the mana from Swallow was weak until I tried it. It's like have a max mana item and really works wonders with PtV (or any other super heavy mana build like Bears/PB.)Worth testing if the mana caps to 5 creeps.. I got a feeling that it doesen´t but can´t say for sure.
Tried out PtV tonight for the first time in a very long time. Gotta say, it's a lot of fun, barely noticed the mana difference at all (in a party of 4).Solo play might turn out more difficult but that´s only at 1st.
Build wise: I´ve been thinking about dropping FA for Hex. To add kill speed and difficulty for fighting reflect and to survivability in general.
Another point that was made on the EU thread:
With capped stats and with paragon points, PtV is the way go. PuR,MM and MR the WD stats will be in value again.
I use frog mojo at 2.0 attack speed. It works....
...but I am NOT saying that 2.0 attack speed is good for PtV.
The key to get PtV to work...is not really on attack speed...
it's all about how much mana you can get from the white trash.
Some map has higher mob density...some map doesn't..
But to get it to work in general, independent on map...
is to use Locust to lure a lot of white trash around you!!!!
ghosting animation sux... Have to pay attention to the animation..if you dont see the "bats", run!
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 10/16/2013 2:49 PM PDT
use frog mojo at 2.0 attack speed. It works....
yeah Tre and I were discussing that very idea back in the day of using a TOTD. I can see the benefits of that.
Well I may make some vids and test again on my end :P
O_o damn you PTV...get out of m head :P
Here's my 300K PtV build with Skorn
Here's the thread that explains it http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#ecidXU!cWb!cbZaYZ
Plague Bats not CoB
No SoJ- No thanks
No GI. Don't like it in VoTA or fighting elites. If you want to mow whites down with a mana boost then run Bears/Locusts.
You pick the follower. If you still have mana trouble, then take Templar for mana boost. Don't use Enchantress with the AS boost as this eats mana. Scoundrel is neutral.
The fewer attack speed items you wear the better. If you are worried about CoB break points then look elsewhere.
There are different favors of the PtV build.
Here is what I found I feel most comfortable with:
I have no PUR on gear. So I use CoB, with lifelink dogs to keep me alive. Hex to "arrest" at least 1 elite right next to me so that I can always have lifesteal.
2. TotD + sword.
In this case, I love to use PB to make good use of the PUR from mojo. It seems to be lower in dmg, but then I use both buffs from BBV and confusion paranoia. Everything falls in range, confused...
Edited by Luffy#1946 on 10/16/2013 7:54 PM PDT
Jumbasa,Loaded indeed :)
3/3 max mana items with -cost and MR on mojo and around 2 aps is doable at VoTA I think. FoM and other areas that are crawling with creeps and you can have a lot more. It all depends on your dps ofcourse.
I haven´t payed any attention to ghosting :)
yeah Tre and I were discussing that very idea back in the day of using a TOTD. I can see the benefits of that.Lose some dps for WD stats and cool factor :)
I don´t like playing without GF and GI. GF is just too good and I find playing without GI boring. Don´t get me started about SoJ :D
I would love to give this a try!! Is there anything gear wise I might need to swap out for this? I'm looking to get pickup radius, but outside of that where else might I be lacking?You´re good to go. If you encounter problems, try SoJ instead of that rare trifecta.
This. The skills on OP are for so called "max effiency" on the selected maps. There´s many variations that work and are fun to use.
PB is good and imo more mana friendly too and the DoT ftw.
I´ve been thinking high aps build with SB and PB with possible SB bonus on mojo and SoJ. In this tycoon/stockmarket/pay2win circus I can´t do it :( Gotta wait till loot patch and the removal of stockmarket.
Been playing that on console version with 2.63 aps (they made WoS animation faster) and it´s lovely and good fun to play.
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