Diablo® III

Wizard vs Barbarian eDPS discrepancy

As you can see, I have 2 P-level characters (wiz and barb). It never really occurs to me to compare their stats, to this point I’ve given the wizard a lot less attention. I find it interesting that when I run the very top level wizards on this forum through d3up.com and compare to my relatively average barbarian, the fully buffed DPS is 3-4 times less for the wizard than for what I’d consider to be a fairly average barbarian. Yea, I know, apples and oranges and very different play style…variety is great. But, it gets me wondering how long it’s going to take me to solo my wiz up to P100 considering the going is also pretty slow now with my bard in the P90 range.

Just wondering if anyone else has any thoughts on what seems to be a really big eDPS differential, even considering the difference in play style between classes.

At the end of the day, less eDPS for the average (and above average) wiz must mean it’ll take a lot longer to progress, yes?

PS: I'm sure the answer to the rhetorical leveling question=group play.
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d3up doesn't give eDPS.

You're doing it wrong.
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d3up.com will not tell you your eDPS, nor is eDPS an accurate estimate for EXP farming efficiency. I don't know about your barb's EXP rate, but I do know that my wizard makes 150M EXP/hr in solo MP9 VORCS runs. Considering the most relevant differences in our wizard gear (EXP gem and DPS), you could potentially make over 90M EXP/hr.
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HOTA is good but in general barb has worse DPS than our top builds. It's hard to kill a gob with 300K dps with WW/WTOB in MP10. You can do it all day with 150K DPS CM or 250K Archon equivalent. As we should for being glass comparatively.

What barb has is no wind up. Move twice as fast as everyone and is invulnerable. That makes it seem faster. Probably is in long run since majority of time is spent traveling not killing for other class.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 6:40 PM PDT
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HOTA is good but in general barb has worse DPS than our top builds. It's hard to kill a gob with 300K dps with WW/WTOB in MP10. You can do it all day with 150K DPS CM.

lol...I can easily solo a goblin in a 4 party game. And I don't need him frozen to do so either. You can solo an MP10 gob with 50k sheet dps as a cm/ww, just sit there and freeze all day. Your problems are that you don't have a SoJ and you're using a suboptimal build with frenzy.

CM/ww effective dps doesn't even come close to barb, not by a long shot. The top barbs have broken way past 5M with HotA and 4M with ww/sprint. Top CM's likely barely cracking 3.
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Best epds? COB WD. /thread :PPP
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10/10/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Liquid
Best epds? COB WD. /thread :PPP

True.
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Why is edps not a reliable indicator of farming speed? If we assume ehp is constant, then wont the higher edps char of the same class be faster by definition?
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10/10/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Eciton
Why is edps not a reliable indicator of farming speed? If we assume ehp is constant, then wont the higher edps char of the same class be faster by definition?


nope. You have to simulate how effective is this edps is being applied. A char can have 1000% sheet dps. But can only apply that to a small number of mobs and having to kite/chase like a douchebag. compared to one with lesser edps that can face tank and and hit multiple mobs and being very mobile

edit: ignore what i said. thats between different classes :P
Edited by Liquid#6905 on 10/10/2013 6:49 PM PDT
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10/10/2013 06:42 PMPosted by Eciton
Why is edps not a reliable indicator of farming speed? If we assume ehp is constant, then wont the higher edps char of the same class be faster by definition?

I meant eDPS alone. Comparing the eDPS of two wizards should be fairly acurate, but his question was cross class. Running between mobs is half the game, and barbs do it very differently than wizards.
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10/10/2013 06:39 PMPosted by Liquid
Best epds? COB WD. /thread :PPP


Tru feels like slo mo going back to my wiz.

10/10/2013 06:37 PMPosted by silverfire
HOTA is good but in general barb has worse DPS than our top builds. It's hard to kill a gob with 300K dps with WW/WTOB in MP10. You can do it all day with 150K DPS CM.

lol...I can easily solo a goblin in a 4 party game. And I don't need him frozen to do so either. You can solo an MP10 gob with 50k sheet dps as a cm/ww, just sit there and freeze all day. Your problems are that you don't have a SoJ and you're using a suboptimal build with frenzy.

CM/ww effective dps doesn't even come close to barb, not by a long shot. The top barbs have broken way past 5M with HotA and 4M with ww/sprint. Top CM's likely barely cracking 3.


I'd like to see it not using hota. Also like to see a 50K cm do in a gob. I have soj basically I dont believe one word of it.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 6:49 PM PDT
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It doesn't matter if the DPS is wrong. Permanent Wrath gives huge movement speed bonus and makes elites trivial. Barbarians can just rend and walk away. Even with similar real DPS Wizards will lose out due to wind up time and stationary fighting.
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Best epds? COB WD. /thread :PPP


Tru feels like slo mo going back to my wiz.



Yes solo it's freaking slow. Need support monk to pull in mobs. With a good group of wd and monk, it's the fastest farm runs you will ever see.
Edited by Liquid#6905 on 10/10/2013 6:51 PM PDT
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10/10/2013 04:47 PMPosted by mvhrad
less eDPS for the average (and above average) wiz must mean it’ll take a lot longer to progress, yes?


yes, of course... anything OTHER than possibly 300k unbuffed SNS at >2.7 BP
archon is slow and inefficient at MP9-10 (I was running >430k unbuffed, still too slow)

nothing in game currently is faster with higher eDPS than WW/rend barb, including SNS, bats WD, etc... NOTHING.

The ONLY, ONLY possible exception is a Nirvana Monk; I ran this almost exclusively for 60 P-levels; output is >70,000,000 DPS over 5 seconds, so 14M DPS with 12 second cooldown > 4.2M DPS (average). It's basically 'kill everything in a pack including elites in 5 seconds' :-)
Edited by DethAxe#1328 on 10/10/2013 7:16 PM PDT
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We need to test this out. Get down to like 280K dps like me and lets do ubers. And we post videos since silver claims i dont know how to play barb. Best time has best dps multiplier.

I find barb even with rend pathetic DPS at 250K unbuffed. like 390K in wotb.

Maybe like I dont know barb you don;t know CM.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 8:11 PM PDT
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Best epds? COB WD. /thread :PPP


Tru feels like slo mo going back to my wiz.



lol...I can easily solo a goblin in a 4 party game. And I don't need him frozen to do so either. You can solo an MP10 gob with 50k sheet dps as a cm/ww, just sit there and freeze all day. Your problems are that you don't have a SoJ and you're using a suboptimal build with frenzy.

CM/ww effective dps doesn't even come close to barb, not by a long shot. The top barbs have broken way past 5M with HotA and 4M with ww/sprint. Top CM's likely barely cracking 3.


I'd like to see it not using hota. Also like to see a 50K cm do in a gob. I have soj basically I dont believe one word of it.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8729033505?page=1

Bunch of people killing them with under 200k...as low as 130k

As I said in that thread, I did it with 85k unbuffed way back in the day for the first time with HotA.

If you have trouble believing any of this yeah you have a lot to learn about barb.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/10/2013 8:11 PM PDT
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yes, of course... anything OTHER than possibly 300k unbuffed SNS at >2.7 BP
archon is slow and inefficient at MP9-10 (I was running >430k unbuffed, still too slow)

nothing in game currently is faster with higher eDPS than WW/rend barb, including SNS, bats WD, etc... NOTHING.

The ONLY, ONLY possible exception is a Nirvana Monk; I ran this almost exclusively for 60 P-levels; output is >70,000,000 DPS over 5 seconds, so 14M DPS with 12 second cooldown > 4.2M DPS (average). It's basically 'kill everything in a pack including elites in 5 seconds' :-)


Vid's.... Vid's vid's. Yes nirvana is a great build, but wd's have the single highest Edps single target build currently in-game to say otherwise is to ignore blatant fact. 14 second Mp 10 Ghom kill time with 3/5 of the buffs @ 216k dps unbuffed<---- Thats over 40x Edps multiplier and that also includes the cob windup time. And if were talking about "Burst" dps over sustained dps nothing beats an EP monk @ mp 10 for burst dps. Nothing beats 3~4x 100,000,000 crits in under 1 second for burst damage.
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We need to test this out. Get down to like 280K dps like me and lets do ubers. And we post videos since silver claims i dont know how to play barb. Best time has best dps multiplier.

I find barb even with rend pathetic DPS at 250K unbuffed. like 390K in wotb.

Maybe like I dont know barb you don;t know CM.

Sure whatever you want
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We need to test this out. Get down to like 280K dps like me and lets do ubers. And we post videos since silver claims i dont know how to play barb. Best time has best dps multiplier.

I find barb even with rend pathetic DPS at 250K unbuffed. like 390K in wotb.

Maybe like I dont know barb you don;t know CM.


you dont know barb, at all. my barb has only 220 k unbuffed. and he destroys ubers. when you are talking about unbuffed, don't forget everytime you go in game, you have weap master + ruthless. none except the ggest of the barbs will have over 250 -300k unbuffed. but then when buffed up i have 700k in overpower and 3xbash and hit for 2.5mil per hit in hota for 2.5 aps - means 6m edps which is much higher then any cm including myself.
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