Diablo® III

Wizard vs Barbarian eDPS discrepancy

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DethAxe
yes, of course... anything OTHER than possibly 300k unbuffed SNS at >2.7 BP
archon is slow and inefficient at MP9-10 (I was running >430k unbuffed, still too slow)

400-500K DPS is too low for MP10 Archon. 600K+ is generally when it gets okay. I still take about 10-15 seconds to down non-Extra Health elite packs on MP10.

As for the barb vs. wizard leveling differences, it's not the eDPS. It's mobility. WotB and perma-Sprint is just going to get you through the game faster, especially if you're doing Rend. Click and leave the scene. No windup, nothing.

On the other hand, wizard has CM and Teleport, but you have to run APoC and at least attack mobs to the point where you can spam Teleport. But if you're trying to get EXP, unless you're running Blizzard, you can't just "run and gun" like Rend. You have to be there until the mobs die. Because of the limitations in physical run speed, barbs will gain EXP faster.
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Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 10/10/2013 8:28 PM PDT
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@void I thought we were talking about WW & REND I already said hota was great dps in my first post. . Anyway that nice and all HOTA does more DPS than a CM wiz. But irrlevent since OP asked about effective DPS. CM does 3m to two all-the-time (4m in your case). Barb will do more DPS to one some of the time. when he's not chasing and getting picked up... eagar to see who has more effective DPS
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 8:39 PM PDT
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@void I thought we were talking about WW & REND I already said hota was great dps in my first post. . Anyway that nice and all HOTA does more DPS than a CM wiz. But irrlevent since OP asked about effective DPS. CM does 3m to two all-the-time (4m in your case). Barb will do DPS to one some of the time. when he's not chasing and getting picked up... egar to see who has more effective DPS


ahh sry didnt catch on - though a properly built ww-rend will have 4mil + tdps to both targets - and ww barbs that use a dagger on the OH have very low sheet dps thus bearing a gg multi due to the nature of rltw nados only ticking off the MH dmg.
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Since you got top shelf equipment in both - How fast are your vota runs with barb vs your wizzy? I know you were doing 5min 11 elite kills with CM at one point.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 8:42 PM PDT
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Since you got top shelf equipment - How fast are you vota runs with barb vs your wizzy? I now you were doing 5min 11 elite kills with CM at one point.


hmm. vota is special i think - but them my best time on barb was slightly better then wiz i think. you could ask chaz to do a vota run as im hardly practiced on it
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@void I thought we were talking about WW & REND I already said hota was great dps in my first post. . Anyway that nice and all HOTA does more DPS than a CM wiz. But irrlevent since OP asked about effective DPS. CM does 3m to two all-the-time (4m in your case). Barb will do more DPS to one some of the time. when he's not chasing and getting picked up... eagar to see who has more effective DPS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw2TCrSM1Rk

Goblin kill with 130k sheet with passives (115k without according to him iirc) no hota, just sprint/ww

And look at the date...with the gear most of us have these days, we swat goblins like flies, hota or not.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/10/2013 8:48 PM PDT
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^ all those videos show is good procs with lots of stuff around them. Like to see one in the clear I wonder why those arnt shown...

Probably the same reason that i cant kill gobs thread was started
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 8:52 PM PDT
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10/10/2013 08:49 PMPosted by Aimless
^ all those videos show is good procs with lots of stuff around them. Like to see one in the clear I wonder why those arnt shown...

Because that's how you're supposed to play.

Not that it'd be hard even while fury starved, though. Maintaining ww and sprint on a single target shouldn't be a problem.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/10/2013 8:54 PM PDT
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What dps are you gonna be in uber run silver?

I'll match it I have tons of gear to be any DPS from 315 unbuffed down.

Need solid testing

I'm off to bed now (work construction so early riser) but I'll be on on 3am PST.till 6am.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/10/2013 9:00 PM PDT
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My barb gear is sorta in limbo atm but expect 200k unbuffed, 270-280k with passives.

I wouldn't be using ww in ubers with Skorn tho..gotta HotA if that's okay.
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Roll a WD, make it GG,

you'll not look back.
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Roll a WD, make it GG,

you'll not look back.


need... support monk.. for imbal fast runs. :S
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picha monk + RV + Liq + me (3x WD) = win-win.

@Liquid remember that run in A2 with picha cmwiz + silvercoo monk + you + me (2x wd)? that was crazy fast.... :D
Edited by Tensor#6418 on 10/11/2013 5:48 AM PDT
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Also Aimless, you might wanna start listening to people. silvefire, Death, nubtro, uberjager... these are barb pros... they do know a thing or two about the class. :)

Entire Barb guide here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7591980848 and I love reading up on these. My barb is more of a tank than a DPS char (117k with passives... boooo) but still farms like a king. :D
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picha monk + RV + Liq + me (3x WD) = win-win.

@Liquid remember that run in A2 with picha cmwiz + silvercoo monk + you + me (2x wd)? that was crazy fast.... :D


Yup it was sweet. I am gng for a short vacation. Will be back in a couple days. Lets run with pich monk!! I can go wd and just went back to cm for a bit too :p
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My barb gear is sorta in limbo atm but expect 200k unbuffed, 270-280k with passives.

I wouldn't be using ww in ubers with Skorn tho..gotta HotA if that's okay.


Sure I would like to see effective dps of farming spec too though since that what was asked about. Does you hota mobs or ww/rend them?

Also what will - elites be?

To establish eDPS we need to match as close as possible.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 10/11/2013 6:24 AM PDT
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Yup it was sweet. I am gng for a short vacation. Will be back in a couple days. Lets run with pich monk!! I can go wd and just went back to cm for a bit too :p


I'm definitely up for it. Except only if I'm lagging. Which has been really intense since last week. Can't play at all. See, my WD stuck in the P50s. Whereas picha has moved to P88. :( :(
picha tried to run with me just b4 maintenance... lag was ok with few mobs. but as soon as elites came on screen or picha vacuumed huge mobs, i lagged out. died sooo many times. :(
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det0x update: barb from lvl1 to plvl100 in 31 hours 24 mins: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10039054064?page=2#36

thats how fast they are.

EDIT: Its over a week old. still crazy though.
Edited by Tensor#6418 on 10/11/2013 6:42 AM PDT
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My barb gear is sorta in limbo atm but expect 200k unbuffed, 270-280k with passives.

I wouldn't be using ww in ubers with Skorn tho..gotta HotA if that's okay.


Sure I would like to see effective dps of farming spec too though since that what was asked about. Does you hota mobs or ww/rend them?

Also what will - elites be?

To establish eDPS we need to match as close as possible.

I could probably borrow 1h's if I needed to. Pretty much always roll with 29% or 30% SoJ. (had to give one back that I borrowed recently so I'm shopping for a new one atm)

But that's the thing, good barbs don't use the same build for everything. I use ww/rend/hota for nearly everything because it has nearly no weaknesses. In ubers of course I'd have fury problems and would kill slowly with such a build.

And then there are those that use "classic" ww builds like yours for everything. Yeah, you never run out wrath, ever, unless you fall asleep at your keyboard, but you're also leaving tons of damage at the table and they do much, much worse than a proper HotA build in ubers.

And comparing sheet DPS vs sheet DPS is simply not going to work. I say 200k unbuffed, but fully buffed I'm close to 700k and maintaining that during ubers isn't much of an issue. And sheet DPS isn't meaningful for barbs because ww and sprint both have sparse breakpoints, and HotA operates at close to a 100% effective crit chance if built properly.

With the way that sources work, wizards usually end up hitting somewhat higher unbuffed sheet DPS numbers than barbs for similar budgets, assuming both are built well and not built to epeen. Top wizards are in low 400k territory. Top barbs (and I don't mean the glass cannons with no lifesteal on dprog) are in low 300k territory. I like the idea of comparing based on gear cost but it can be very subjective.

This is hardly the type of comparison you're looking for, but here are a couple of rock-bottom priced sets I made for both wizard and barb which are very close in unbuffed sheet DPS (though barb has 3x the BvE). The wizard set is cheaper, but I tried way harder for it, spending a week sniping bids whereas the barb was just a few lazy hours of buyouts. Both builds are crippled. I had to resort to shell/cold snap for the wizard and crutchthirst for the barb. But you can see the times aren't even close, the barb kills roughly twice as fast. Even if the wizard had proper SNS, and the barb lost his SoJ, it still wouldn't have been close.

In fact, IIRC, my 60M barb's kill time is on par with the 1B sc and mempo times from the competition...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC_moDQFvAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3HzqDkCNyo

I guess it'd be interesting to see a similar exercise in the opposite direction, limitless budget for both...but as far as that goes, I don't think any class is even close to barb for the solo uber records (well under 2 minutes for all 3 portals combined)
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/11/2013 10:13 AM PDT
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And kiza does gohm in like 15 seconds with uberdeath build. Thats 9m eDPS but it's not a farm spec. You right though it's hard to compare. As i said in my first post I think barbs get EXP faster because they are faster and continue killing off screen probably giving a higher eDPS overall. But on point AOE I think SNS is more than rend/sprint ww. I run a 9-13x DPS multiplier depending on soj or not.
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