Diablo® III

What's wrong with Diablo 3?

Disclaimer: I won't even include a TL:DR, because this thread is meant to generate some relevant discussion, not suitable for people who don't even care to understand the arguments presented properly. Sorry to disappoint the lazy folks, but this thread isn't aimed to your particular demographic. If you don't like particularly long reads, I suggest you simply go back to browse the forums for a shorter one.

So what's wrong with Diablo 3? It's an interesting question, isn't it? A lot of people have different views. Some love it, some hate it. All sorts of opinions are valid as long as they're substantiated. I feel I needed to convey mine, hopefully in an articulated enough manner as to make for a sound argument and sprout some meaningful discussion.

Starting by the skill system, the game is designed from the ground up to absolutely trivialize everything under max level. As you level, how many relevant milestones do you feel? How much control do you really feel you have over your character? Are you able to specialize? All these are important questions the designers should be asking themselves when designing an ARPG, yet it would seem like the D3 team didn't even realize what the focus of an ARPG should be. The journey, the progress, the strive. They're all ruined by the wrong focus.

It's disheartening, because they not only gave us the 3 previous difficulties, but also stacked yet another one, that happens to make the first three seem completely redundant and unnecessary, precisely because of the focus on max level experience. The main problem here, I think, is the way the skill system is designed. It isn't only awfully shallow and streamlined, but with the further development of gearcheck levels (officially labeled, MP levels), they've effectively shifted the focus over from viability to excessive optimization. It's the product of a heavily WoW-influenced team, who mistakenly keeps trying to shove MMO concepts down a different genre's throat, and failing at it. I've used this analogy before, but the dev team would seem like a bunch of trained monkeys trying to fit the cube shape on the circular hole. It simply doesn't work.

Now, taking stuff from WoW isn't be necessarily a bad thing, but it needs to have full support to be successful, and it needs to make sense within the context of Diablo. Why does WoW thrive? The answer is simple: Each expansion has several projected content patches, released every few months. It's not even small patches, it's usually completely new areas, new gear, new raids/BGs, pets, and so on. This is precisely why WoW can use max level activities as it's main focus: There's simply a lot of stuff to do at max level! Diablo 3 has had the same approach, without the mandatory content updates to sustain that model. This is why people got bored a few months after. I would expect the same thing if the WoW team didn't release those content updates. Just picture the current MoP expansion if we were still coursing through the Mogu Shan Vaults patch, for instance. I think it's safe to assume a large portion of the playerbase would have left months ago, just like it happened with D3.

Basically, the problem is D3 has been treated like a second class MMO. It has an auction house (soon to go, for the wrong reasons), it has an obsessive focus on max level, but has little support for extensive max-level gameplay, other than grinding with easily the most unrewarding and poorly conceived loot system ever deviced for any ARPG. Even the few content updates (talking about actually new content, not just recycled stuff and balance changes) wouldn't make up for a decent MMO content patch. Let's recap what these have been:
- New crafting recipes (archon gear, marquise gems, hellfire rings).
- The brawling guy 3d model.
- The room where you summon uber portals.


That's all, for new content. The rest, ubers, paragon levels, MP levels have all been recycled from the already existing (and imho, very small) amount of content. How could they expect a game to work like that? How didn't they see this complete revamp of an already successful formula would be a good thing for the franchise?

This is why I consider the Dev team simply doesn't get it. ARPGs usually don't need a whole lot of content updates to thrive, because their exceptional replay value comes from different sources, mostly rerolling new characters. It's crucial for an ARPGs success to have a character development system structured around commitment that fully encourages the player's creativity without trivializing the leveling journey in the way the current skill system does. Think about what made Diablo 2 special, and why it lasted for over a decade, and even today remains somewhat popular. It's a combination of the creativity-stimulating environment it's founded upon and the ladder system. The D3 team headed by Jay Wilson mistakenly (and imho, presumptuously) defined these aspects as artificial complexity. Big mistake.

In Diablo 3, not only you have very little milestones in the 1-59 bracket, but the MP system made it even more forced into optimization, as the ridiculous amount of health scaling forces players to pick the handful of obscenely overbuffed skills in order to even have a chance above MP5. So where did this "update" lead us? To an awfully optimization-focused game, with little room for actual creativity, where 80% of the available skills completely blow because they're still tailored for the old inferno, where healthpools were reasonably sized, or simply because they are a complete and utter failure (hot pursuit, anyone?).

At first, the skill system in D3 seems refreshing, liberating, innovative. To a certain degree it may be, but quickly, you begin to realize how much had to be sacrificed from the essence of the game to give place to this "innovation". Not only there's absolutely no character development, but the only source of anything resembling customization has been shamelessly monetized (gear), leading to a boring gold grinding treadmill with no soul. TBH, the only thing I would defend of D3's current iteration is the spectacular combat engine it runs, which is hands down the only thing preventing me from uninstalling this thing.

And since we're talking about gear, itemization itself has been another terrible aspect of the game, because it's, once again, oriented towards a linear, MMO-ish type of progression, that still requires periodic content updates to not become completely stale within a short timeframe.

Then we take a look at difficulty. Is the game difficult? I'd submit it is not. Basically, the game can be defined as a series of gearchecks. MP2 can be extremely challenging to someone in ghetto self found gear. Perhaps as challenging as MP10 to someone purchasing all his gear with a credit card. But at the end of the day, is this a game that actually promotes skillful gameplay? I honestly don't think so, precisely because of the gearcheck-ish nature it has. Imho, out of the current ARPGs out there, Path of Exile got the difficulty right.

It's a really simple concept, but it's surprisingly successful within an ARPG environment. Basically, they've structured difficulty around monster debuffs. Sounds silly, but when you think about it, many different monsters, stacking different debuffs on you is something that really compels the player to stay on his toes, instead of just soaking all incoming damage like it happens in D3. It's a cleverly thought out system, because it allows for real time difficulty scaling. To some extent, the skillful and diligent player will be able to fight better, because the focus of the game isn't just on maximizing DPS, but also on skillfully evading certain effects (lightning in particular, is very nasty in PoE). A better explanation of this system, by Kriparrian, for those interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4

So why is this system good for an ARPG? Because it doesn't allow you to faceroll everything. Even if you have godly gear, you'll still die if you're sloppy, and even a relatively poor player can compete if he's skillful enough, even if it's really tough. Even if there was a Pay to win method, it wouldn't really do a lot if the player doesn't play properly In D3, a wallet warrior will easily outgear MP10 and farm it like a champ, even if his playstyle isn't very refined, but a skilled, yet poor player will not have a chance against the blatant gearcheck high MP levels are.

Thoughts, opinions, counter arguments, are always welcome.
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Great wall of text. I mostly agree with everything you wrote. Especially with no milestones on the way to max level. It's like there are no levels in Diablo anymore, everyone is just the same lvl - 60.
But I think that devs already realized these D3 weaknesses you've mentioned. We will get endless para lvls which will offer some customization, there will be (hopefully) great items, instead of just bigger numbers, remove of AH will enhance the loot hunt, etc.
So I still have a hope for this game.
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I understand what to say.. I play PoE too and was a d1/d2 player but I like D3 as it is... I just adapted to what I got when I bought the game.. If they do major or minor changes to it with RoS I will adapt again.. you know look at the nature from the past 70 millions years.. adaptation it's they key of success.. ask dinosaurs
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No diversity among builds / character appearance (Addressed in RoS)
Completely broken itemization ( All about trifecta and dps ) (Addressed in RoS)
Lack of replayability (Addressed in RoS, by longevity not replayability but still )
No competition / ladders (Addressed in RoS)
End game is dull (Addressed in RoS)
Lack of real pvp

Reaper of Souls is really trying to address most of Diablo 3 problems, can they do it ? Can they deliver game changing expansion ? I hope so and I believe they can.
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I'm doing the same.
I miss hit recovery.
I miss hit chance.
I miss jewels, runes.
I miss THEIR version of crafted gear.
I miss combining gems being free.
I miss skulls, diamonds and amethysts.
I miss being able to spam teleport.
I miss being able to do a 10 minute MF run.
I miss MF gear being worthwhile.
I miss good story. I miss uniques you could find and use at level 10.
I miss uniques that were good end-game.
I miss the real version of Cow Level.
I miss stat points.
I miss skill trees.
I miss not having a res timer.
I miss white items being able to be vendored.
I miss Tyrael being a badass.
I miss Tyrael's voice.
I miss Diablo looking like a dude.
I miss Paladin.
I miss Necromancer.
I wish I never heard of Witch Doctor.
I miss fire wall.
I miss level 99.
I miss dueling outside of town.
I miss trading games.
I miss item currency.
I miss repair bills vs. res timers.
I miss single player.
I miss the gothic feel if Diablo 1-2.
I miss Stormsheild being a triangular monarch shield. Not a little blue, glowing disc.
I miss Eaglehorn.
I miss crushing blow.
I miss blind.
I miss fear.
I miss curses.
I miss paladin auras.
I miss prevents monster heal.
I miss mobs not regenning to full health in three seconds.
I miss Diablo 2's version of rare groups.
I miss class specific weapons.
I miss the idea that casting with a bow shouldn't increase my fireball's damage.
I miss my merc being able to stand up to !@#$.
I miss getting all the MF from my merc, not 20%.
I miss life leech being worth while.
I miss not having to forage for life on hit gear.
I miss being able to continue a boss fight after I died.
I miss Blizzard North.


add those and it ll be an awesome game.
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10/14/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Reni
No diversity among builds / character appearance (Addressed in RoS)


This will persist as long as skill power is entirely driven from gear. Think about it, why on earth would a demon hunter pick covering fire over bola shots, when the latter is way stronger than the former based on damage modifiers alone? Why pick any hatred spender over rapid fire when it is so ridiculously overpowered next to everything else? In part it's also a matter of reducing the excessive importance of dps over everything else, something that I can only see happening by tuning down the ridiculous amount of healthpool scaling taking place at high MP levels, replacing this false notion of difficulty by a true one, such as the monster debuffs from PoE I mentioned in the OP. This would demand all the ridiculous overbuffing to be reverted, and would allow the devs to fine tune difficulty on a per-debuff level, instead of flat overall increments that do nothing but break the whole system when not done properly, as the MP levels no doubt have demonstrated already.

Character appearance, while concerning (I hate the flashy colors and unrealistic/impractical armor and weapon designs) isn't a priority in my book. Transmog will be a fun thing, though, specially if they happen to come up with really good designs.

10/14/2013 01:14 PMPosted by Reni
Completely broken itemization ( All about trifecta and dps )

I'm still on the fence about this. So far all I've seen is bigger numbers with gimmicky (game changing) effects. We already had that once, when they buffed legendaries, and it did absolutely nothing.

Then we have the smart drops thing, which is fundamentally incompatible with the RNG nature of loot in Diablo, and doesn't really solve the garbage affixes problem. There wouldn't be need for this in the first place if itemization was appropriate. By appropriate I mean:
1. Many different and compelling affixes competing.
2. Item's usefulness determined by one or two strong, emblematic stats. The rest could be utility stats, like it was in D2 (think shaftstop, Vampire gaze, or Stormshield. Items that didn't have it all, yet remained very interesting because of their exceptional Damage reduction bonuses.
3. For legendaries, A LOT less randomness. They can still have some random properties, but don't make it as frustrating as having to look for 3 random properties, which can roll garbage affixes. Limit either the amount of random properties, or the pool from which these items can draw properties from.

The true underlying problem, imho, is the ridiculous amount of deliberate cluttering within the affix pool. For example: Why is damage reduction split in 3 affixes? Why do we have redundant proc effects (chill/slow, stun/blind/freeze)? Why do we have 6 types of elemental damage doing exactly the same except for their graphic effects? Why do we have so many life regeneration affixes? Consolidating those would really do the overall value of items raise. In an entirely RNG driven loot system like the one Diablo has, you'd expect all, or at least most of the affixes to be really useful for someone, yet we see about 30% of the total affix pool is actually compelling, while the remaining 70% ranges from barely desirable to complete garbage. This isn't right, and unfortunately, I don't see that problem addressed in Loot 2.0.

Lack of replayability (Addressed in RoS, by longevity not replayability but still )
End game is dull (Addressed in RoS)

We go back to the WoW comparison. The game can sustain a focus on max level because it has periodic content updates. Without that, anything they come up with for RoS will become stale within a few months, just like vanilla did.

No competition / ladders (Addressed in RoS)
Lack of real pvp

Fair point. I don't think ladders are a good competition scenario, though, since it's basically whoever has the more free time wins, although i can learn to appreciate the fresh start after a ladder reset. Without any form of structured pvp, I don't see actual competition happening. It would be interesting to see a special pvp-oriented server, though. Something similar to the cut throat leagues in PoE, with a ranking system or something. Either way, I'm no PvP enthusiast, but I can understand why a lot of people would want some solid PvP support. Either way, I only see Diablo as a journey each character undertakes, so I guess, from my own perspective I'm only competing against myself, but that's just my opinion.

I am actually quite excited about some of the upcoming changes, but I'm afraid they won't be leading long and healthy lives as long as the devs don't understand the true nature of ARPGs, particularly how incoherent the max-level focus approach is with this type of game.
Edited by Blashyrkh#1824 on 10/14/2013 1:59 PM PDT
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It's not fluffy enough. Take that however you want.
Edited by Stinkyfinger#1801 on 10/14/2013 3:05 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
4535
I'm doing the same.
I miss hit recovery.
I miss hit chance.
I miss jewels, runes.
I miss THEIR version of crafted gear.
I miss combining gems being free.
I miss skulls, diamonds and amethysts.
I miss being able to spam teleport.
I miss being able to do a 10 minute MF run.
I miss MF gear being worthwhile.
I miss good story. I miss uniques you could find and use at level 10.
I miss uniques that were good end-game.
I miss the real version of Cow Level.
I miss stat points.
I miss skill trees.
I miss not having a res timer.
I miss white items being able to be vendored.
I miss Tyrael being a badass.
I miss Tyrael's voice.
I miss Diablo looking like a dude.
I miss Paladin.
I miss Necromancer.
I wish I never heard of Witch Doctor.
I miss fire wall.
I miss level 99.
I miss dueling outside of town.
I miss trading games.
I miss item currency.
I miss repair bills vs. res timers.
I miss single player.
I miss the gothic feel if Diablo 1-2.
I miss Stormsheild being a triangular monarch shield. Not a little blue, glowing disc.
I miss Eaglehorn.
I miss crushing blow.
I miss blind.
I miss fear.
I miss curses.
I miss paladin auras.
I miss prevents monster heal.
I miss mobs not regenning to full health in three seconds.
I miss Diablo 2's version of rare groups.
I miss class specific weapons.
I miss the idea that casting with a bow shouldn't increase my fireball's damage.
I miss my merc being able to stand up to !@#$.
I miss getting all the MF from my merc, not 20%.
I miss life leech being worth while.
I miss not having to forage for life on hit gear.
I miss being able to continue a boss fight after I died.
I miss Blizzard North.


add those and it ll be an awesome game.


I don't miss any of those things. D2 is overrated. D3 is better.
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I saw rerolling characters. To me that wasn't really fun. I think they can make playing more meaningful without locking players into their choices. I believe, once you start locking people in, then most folks will simply just go to the net and search for cookie cutter builds instead of rerolling.

They could add a cost for respecing and balance it so that the cost isn't very trivial that people will respec frequently versus being too costly that people won't bother experimenting.

On the flip side, they can make it more action like and allow people to save multiple builds and run different ones given different situations (party vs solo, etc.)
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My thoughts on build diversity -> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10160646953

My thoughts on character development-> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10196089751

Adding on top of those two:

10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
It's a really simple concept, but it's surprisingly successful within an ARPG environment. Basically, they've structured difficulty around monster debuffs. Sounds silly, but when you think about it, many different monsters, stacking different debuffs on you is something that really compels the player to stay on his toes, instead of just soaking all incoming damage like it happens in D3. It's a cleverly thought out system, because it allows for real time difficulty scaling. To some extent, the skillful and diligent player will be able to fight better, because the focus of the game isn't just on maximizing DPS, but also on skillfully evading certain effects (lightning in particular, is very nasty in PoE). A better explanation of this system, by Kriparrian, for those interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j5a_voG6K4


The biggest design flaw in this sense is really All Resist. You really shouldn't be able to tank EVERYTHING, and I agree 100%.

10/14/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
3. For legendaries, A LOT less randomness. They can still have some random properties, but don't make it as frustrating as having to look for 3 random properties, which can roll garbage affixes. Limit either the amount of random properties, or the pool from which these items can draw properties from.


This is only a problem because of the swell of items that have already flooded the market. For example, Crit Mempo is really what anyone is looking for, but back when it first came out Mempo without Crit and crappy affixes was still THE thing to get. In other words, there were times when the nonrandom properties already made the legendaries decent to good, while random properties made them anywhere from good to godly.

There is merit to making legendaries a lot less random, and a whole lot more rare. That depends on the nature of the gear in question though. If you make it go as far as Mempo, which is exactly what you're looking for, you're funneling everyone into the same BiS items. If you want it to be less random, then it has to not be universally amazing like Mempo is. It has to be the type of item that's particularly good for certain people, while not so good for others. This is probably the type of legendaries you were talking about in point #2. For other items that are just plain good like Mempo, I would say there should be more randomness.

10/14/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
The true underlying problem, imho, is the ridiculous amount of deliberate cluttering within the affix pool. For example: Why is damage reduction split in 3 affixes? Why do we have redundant proc effects (chill/slow, stun/blind/freeze)? Why do we have 6 types of elemental damage doing exactly the same except for their graphic effects? Why do we have so many life regeneration affixes? Consolidating those would really do the overall value of items raise. In an entirely RNG driven loot system like the one Diablo has, you'd expect all, or at least most of the affixes to be really useful for someone, yet we see about 30% of the total affix pool is actually compelling, while the remaining 70% ranges from barely desirable to complete garbage. This isn't right, and unfortunately, I don't see that problem addressed in Loot 2.0.


Read the first link I provided. To put it simply, the undesirable 70% is a problem, but it's not because of the affixes themselves. It's because there's no skills that utilize them.
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TLDR ;)
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10/14/2013 03:30 PMPosted by Geodes
I don't miss any of those things. D2 is overrated. D3 is better.


Is that way every single patch is overhauling a major aspect of the game, slowly veering further and further away from their original design philosophy in '08 and back towards D2's formula?

They realized the game sucks and they want to bring back some of the 10mil players that quit because they won't waste their time with a bad game. As for the 200,000 or so that are satisfied with the way it is now, they have no standards and they'll keep playing no matter what Blizzard does to the game. The AH is being trashed, items are being redesigned (For a 3rd time lmao), one day skills and stat distribution will be back, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Edited by DIII#1213 on 10/14/2013 4:02 PM PDT
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I saw rerolling characters. To me that wasn't really fun. I think they can make playing more meaningful without locking players into their choices. I believe, once you start locking people in, then most folks will simply just go to the net and search for cookie cutter builds instead of rerolling.

They could add a cost for respecing and balance it so that the cost isn't very trivial that people will respec frequently versus being too costly that people won't bother experimenting.


Fair enough. However, Deep within I believe it's simply a dilemma. On one hand, you have the exceptional flexibility a system like the one D3 offers, which, for the reasons exposed in the OP, absolutely demands periodic content updates, which aren't coming any time soon, if at all. Even after RoS, I honestly doubt they'll ever adopt such a costly method without attaching some heavy monetization system like WoW's subscriptions. On the other hand, you have the meaningful choices path, albeit somewhat restrictive, deliver high value to proper choices, and make the player feel his choices actually matter. I believe both approaches can be sources of great customization if done properly, but unfortunately, D3's skill system is everything but well done. Whether we like it or not, Diablo 3 has no meaningful choices past picking your class, and you don't develop absolutely anything. Again, when you have everything being derived from weapon damage alone, and you make damage the most important aspect of a character by a big margin, the only reasonable outcome is to have the big hitters being extremely popular, while weaker, yet more of a utility skills are swept under the rug simply because weaker will always mean worse. For all the talk about "viable over optimal", they've made this game just as optimization-oriented as WoW, with a completely incompatible piss-poor cluttered itemization that just makes the whole thing entirely frustrating.

For example, I'm currently running an entangling shot/frozen arrow build with cull the weak sealing the deal. It's a really fun build at low MP levels, and has an interesting synergy within, but the relatively low damage output it has makes it completely useless at high MP levels. This is why these obscenely overscaled healthpools are so problematic. They've forced the developers to overbuff a handful of skills, while the remaining 70%+ remain tuned for the old inferno, which makes them useless where it counts. It sucks, but it's something that could be addressed somehow if they managed to detach at least a large portion of skill damage from weapon damage alone.

Torchlight 2 does this. Pure damage skills are most of the time based on skill point investment, while utility spells that happen to do damage have their damage determined by weapon damage. It's a great thing, because the skills that evolve mostly due to specialization grow with your character, so even if you don't happen to find the most appropriate gear for your character, you will still feel you're in control of how your character develops. this is amplified by the fact you get to unlock tier effects for specializing into a certain skill. In D3, you can go for several levels without a single upgrade, and the few autostats you get don't really convey that feeling of progress that should happen whenever you reach a new level, even more when you reach 60 and start the paragon grind. It's simply a terrible system for an ARPG. I'm aware they're adding the paragon 2.0 thing, but I still believe this has to permeate the skill system somehow in order to successfully detach character progression from gear alone, and deliver the player the necessary control to fully customize the character past picking the most overpowered skill like it happens now.

Cookie cutter builds will always happen, but they're less likely to happen if the game doesn't turn an outright gearcheck like it did with MP levels. Again, back to the PoE example. Gear can only take you so far before you can ignore mechanics. If you don't play smart, you'll be dead rather often, and not even the best gear available can help you there. Surprisingly, a difficult game like PoE seems to encourage a lot of experimentation and planification, precisely because it has a lot of depth, and isn't just an outgearing epeen competition like D3 is.

About the cost of respeccing, it would need to be really steep in order to actually convey the feeling of meaningful choices. There's a reason why it's difficult to fully respec a character in PoE, or why tokens of absolution took some work to gather in D2. A lot of people don't necessarily agree with it, and that's a fair position, but we have to think about the integrity of the game, and what's important to the experience, instead of what caters to my lazyness as a player.

The skill system in D3 makes this difficult, because it's entirely incompatible with the genre to begin with, so it would be pointless to have respec costs for a shallow system like this one. As I mentioned before, you don't even develop absolutely anything in your character. You're just given a predefined ragdoll and that's it. It's awfully boring, and most definitely, does not feel like Diablo at all. This is why I've mentioned in other posts that D3 is more akin to old Beat 'em ups of the 90s than it is to ARPGs as a whole. Heck, it's not even an RPG at this point, and that really sucks. Feels more like a glorified Final Fight game, where you have to assign skills to buttons instead of having to input gamepad sequences for special powers. It's that shallow.

10/14/2013 03:31 PMPosted by MerLock
On the flip side, they can make it more action like and allow people to save multiple builds and run different ones given different situations (party vs solo, etc.)

Not like it matters, as the skill system already trivialized 75% of the game, but I guess it would be a good QoL improvement if they persevere with the current system.
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The community, but that's more an issue with the internet and america than specifically diablo.
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@ North2: That's actually an interesting take. Having skills that greatly benefit some affixes while being indifferent to others could actually be good. However, this still doesn't rid us of the absurd amount of cluttering within the affix pool.

This is why I mentioned consolidation as a source of more desirable affixes. Some ideas:
- Damage reduction affixes could be merged into a single, stronger DR affix like the one in D2. Throw in indestructible for some extra flavour.
- Proc effects (currently undesirable) could be merged within the different types of elemental damage. Some additional damage effects could be added to make them more appealing as well.
- health per globe, health on kill, life regen could be merged into a single, more desirable surivability affix.

Some other affixes are just bad. For instance, item requirement reduction trivializes even further an already trivialized low level content. Extra Xp per kill is laughably underpowered. Thorns and bleeds are terrible. Perhaps some substantial buffs would help there.

All resist is indeed one of the problems. I personally find to be just another redundancy within the affix pool that could be sorted out easily. Individual resistances alone would have sufficed, without being problematic. If they just came up with allresist because of one with everything, then they should simply scrap the skill and come with something different.

All these problems can be identified without even having to go through the market. I mean, who the heck ever wants thorns? laughably weak bleeds? Negligible Xp boosts? Why do we need a thousand and one different ways to regain health? Why do class specific items roll mainstats for other classes? It's just nonsensical, although I will concede having a notion of the market prices will indeed skew your perception about what's good and what's not, to a certain extent.
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OP +1000

request sticky?
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@ North2: That's actually an interesting take. Having skills that greatly benefit some affixes while being indifferent to others could actually be good. However, this still doesn't rid us of the absurd amount of cluttering within the affix pool.

This is why I mentioned consolidation as a source of more desirable affixes. Some ideas:
- Damage reduction affixes could be merged into a single, stronger DR affix like the one in D2. Throw in indestructible for some extra flavour.
- Proc effects (currently undesirable) could be merged within the different types of elemental damage. Some additional damage effects could be added to make them more appealing as well.
- health per globe, health on kill, life regen could be merged into a single, more desirable surivability affix.

Some other affixes are just bad. For instance, item requirement reduction trivializes even further an already trivialized low level content. Extra Xp per kill is laughably underpowered. Thorns and bleeds are terrible. Perhaps some substantial buffs would help there.

All resist is indeed one of the problems. I personally find to be just another redundancy within the affix pool that could be sorted out easily. Individual resistances alone would have sufficed, without being problematic. If they just came up with allresist because of one with everything, then they should simply scrap the skill and come with something different.

All these problems can be identified without even having to go through the market. I mean, who the heck ever wants thorns? laughably weak bleeds? Negligible Xp boosts? Why do we need a thousand and one different ways to regain health? Why do class specific items roll mainstats for other classes? It's just nonsensical, although I will concede having a notion of the market prices will indeed skew your perception about what's good and what's not, to a certain extent.


1. They are adding elemental effects to damage types at least. We don't know if it will be important and game changing. I believe it won't change a thing cause those effects will be extremely watered down.

2. The affix pool size is just silly. I remember Dev blogs where the devs would happily & proudly add even the kitchen sink as an affix. They did this on purpose.

3. All res OP? Then what about the dexterity farce. Wizards more tanky than DHs just because dex is just a joke.... oh you should add items with int, str and armor to that DH. wait WTF?!?!?

4. I believe that the wow xpac model of +10 levels and a new gear race won't be enough for players to come back. The crusader is just a weeks worth of game time at best.

5. RoS new content?!?!? You mean that new 1-1.5h act? People will say "I paid for 1.5h worth of new content?!?!?" Do they even realise how little that is? I expected 3 new acts.... People will play for a week and then just leave again.

7. The ostrich manuever of removing the AH. They are helping the players by making it MUCH HARDER to trade gear on external black markets. An oxymoron. As if elite gear was traded in Blizzard's AH with stupid listing limitations, market caps, and a silly commision. What about trading commodities? how about keeping the AH? if anything else, casuals should be able to sell/buy basic gear with 10-100k gold...
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@ North2: That's actually an interesting take. Having skills that greatly benefit some affixes while being indifferent to others could actually be good. However, this still doesn't rid us of the absurd amount of cluttering within the affix pool.

This is why I mentioned consolidation as a source of more desirable affixes. Some ideas:
- Damage reduction affixes could be merged into a single, stronger DR affix like the one in D2. Throw in indestructible for some extra flavour.
- Proc effects (currently undesirable) could be merged within the different types of elemental damage. Some additional damage effects could be added to make them more appealing as well.
- health per globe, health on kill, life regen could be merged into a single, more desirable surivability affix.

Some other affixes are just bad. For instance, item requirement reduction trivializes even further an already trivialized low level content. Extra Xp per kill is laughably underpowered. Thorns and bleeds are terrible. Perhaps some substantial buffs would help there.

All resist is indeed one of the problems. I personally find to be just another redundancy within the affix pool that could be sorted out easily. Individual resistances alone would have sufficed, without being problematic. If they just came up with allresist because of one with everything, then they should simply scrap the skill and come with something different.

All these problems can be identified without even having to go through the market. I mean, who the heck ever wants thorns? laughably weak bleeds? Negligible Xp boosts? Why do we need a thousand and one different ways to regain health? Why do class specific items roll mainstats for other classes? It's just nonsensical, although I will concede having a notion of the market prices will indeed skew your perception about what's good and what's not, to a certain extent.


Now that I think about it, there are certainly some affixes that cannot really be salvaged and there are way too many affix pools to pull from for some things. Thorns has potential and different ways to gain health can promote different builds in a game environment such as the one I'm envisioning, although they probably should be in 3 affix pools at most. Things that are really pretty dead as an affix are XP boosts and level requirements.

One REALLY simple way they could have made the itemization more interesting is by removing AllResist but making every Single Resist roll potentially 4-6 times higher than it is now. (Of course, in change or remove One With Everything in this case).
Edited by North2#1299 on 10/14/2013 6:07 PM PDT
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One REALLY simple way they could have made the itemization more interesting is by removing AllResist but making every Single Resist roll potentially 4-6 times higher than it is now. (Of course, in change or remove One With Everything in this case).


We need more space in the items. Don't require all slots to have main stat + vit. Have vit on chest & pants, int on head and ammy, dex on hands and shoulders, str on hands and feet. With large numbers based off the tier of the item.

They could also seperate sockets from stats on items and add a socketing service as a gold sink for 1,2 or 3 sockets. That would make gems a way to customize stats+vit that many people want, and add the "invest on item" concept that the game lacks.

This way they should leave space on items for more interesting stuff. Alternatively they could add charm/jewel slots back. They were part of the original design.
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10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
it would seem like the D3 team didn't even realize what the focus of an ARPG should be. The journey, the progress, the strive. They're all ruined by the wrong focus.

This, particularly. The "end game" of D2 and pretty much every other ARPG is to roll, level, and gear alts with different builds. D3 has removed this completely, giving you every build under the sun at you fingertips as soon as you hit 60. They've attempted to compensate for this by tacking on zillions of "uber levels" for your max level generic jack of all trades to grind out. That isn't an ARPG as we know it.
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