Diablo® III

What's wrong with Diablo 3?

10/14/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Dogf
This, particularly. The "end game" of D2 and pretty much every other ARPG is to roll, level, and gear alts with different builds. D3 has removed this completely, giving you every build under the sun at you fingertips as soon as you hit 60. They've attempted to compensate for this by tacking on zillions of "uber levels" for your max level generic jack of all trades to grind out. That isn't an ARPG as we know it.


Working with your items should have been part of the journey. Who thought to roll gambling into crafting? I want his head on a plater. proper crafting/imbuing/enchainting would have made this game x1000 better and add a valuable gold sink to the economy.

I can't believe they missed so much potential with this
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10/14/2013 07:06 PMPosted by Dogf
This, particularly. The "end game" of D2 and pretty much every other ARPG is to roll, level, and gear alts with different builds. D3 has removed this completely, giving you every build under the sun at you fingertips as soon as you hit 60. They've attempted to compensate for this by tacking on zillions of "uber levels" for your max level generic jack of all trades to grind out. That isn't an ARPG as we know it.


The "End Game" of D2 was rerolling your class 3-4 times because you put slightly too many points into Energy or Strength. Build diversity was characterized as "Frost Orb or Wall of Fire Sorc? Well I'm WW Barb #9,230,492!"

D2 had massive heaps of useless skills that everyone avoided. Virtually every level 1-12 skill that wasn't a passive was worthless, spells like Ice Bolt, Ice Blast, Frozen Armor, and Shiver Armor were instantly replaced by Frozen Orb and Chilling Armor. It was the same across almost every class until the synergy system was introduced well after the game's release, which forced you into pouring points into such useless skills.

Whereas I can respec my classes however I want to on the fly, in D2 it was a grueling grind just to roll two different kinds of Amazons to a decent level, sitting in Cow games for 50-odd levels, and then grinding more Cows for another 30 wasn't fun. It didn't add any enjoyment, and the replay-ability was only generated by the game's archaic methods of locking you into choices you made. I rerolled my Sorceress 5 times to level 70 to 80 from the release of D2 to a little after LoD's debut due to nerfs, changes, and generally just playing the game without following some guide online to the letter.

Diablo 3 avoids all of this. A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it. I welcome such a change, and anyone who doesn't should go back to old out-dated design philosophies in games like D2 or PoE.
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10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
As you level, how many relevant milestones do you feel?


This. For the love of god this! This is what I feel the real advantage to skill points was. It meant that if you gimped your character for a bit (by say putting all your gear into strength early on) then you could put on some gnarly armor very early. This made you feel like a god for a few levels and for me made leveling fun.

10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Diablo 3 has had the same approach, without the mandatory content updates to sustain that model.

Quoted for truth.

The D3 team headed by Jay Wilson mistakenly (and imho, presumptuously) defined these aspects as artificial complexity. Big mistake.

Quoted for truth.

10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
itemization itself has been another terrible aspect of the game, because it's, once again, oriented towards a linear, MMO-ish type of progression

And again. I really feel like you understand at a core level why D3 is having the troubles it is.

10/14/2013 12:58 PMPosted by Jalandar
We will get endless para lvls which will offer some customization,

Sort of :( But you also have to remember that this comes at level 60 and that stat points have little to no meaning in D3. I think one of the most important aspects to stat points were that they determined things such as block percentage and the armor you could wear.

The biggest design flaw in this sense is really All Resist. You really shouldn't be able to tank EVERYTHING, and I agree 100%.

Agree! This is quite a problem. Hopefully, with the new elemental effects on monsters a complete rehaul of elemental damage will be looked at.
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Diablo 3 avoids all of this. A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it. I welcome such a change, and anyone who doesn't should go back to old out-dated design philosophies in games like D2 or PoE.


Part of what I took into consideration for my concept -> http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10196089751

As I've said in that thread, I personally prefer it to be how it was in D2 but I can understand why many people, including you, didn't like it. As far as I can tell, all they really need to do is follow is one simple dogma: Fully customizable, but not easy to accomplish. It doesn't even have to be hard. It just has to not be easy, and certainly not free like it is now.
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I'm doing the same.

I miss Blizzard North.


add those and it ll be an awesome game.


*fixed*
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D2 had massive heaps of useless skills that everyone avoided. Virtually every level 1-12 skill that wasn't a passive was worthless, spells like Ice Bolt, Ice Blast, Frozen Armor, and Shiver Armor were instantly replaced by Frozen Orb and Chilling Armor. It was the same across almost every class until the synergy system was introduced well after the game's release, which forced you into pouring points into such useless skills.


This is indeed one of the most evident flaws in the D2 skill system. It was actually acknowledged, and the attempt to fix that without a complete overhaul were synergies. It was meant to be more of a bandaid, than a full fix, though, but to a certain extent, it was somewhat successful. The problem with this kind of explicit synergy is that it makes the skill tree model even more rigid than it was before.

However, If we look at more contemporary examples, I believe Torchlight 2 is the one that most successfully managed to improve the outdated D2 skill model. The change from a tree layout to a grid is a very relevant one. Not only it gets rid of the restricting prerequisites model, but also makes sure every single skill is viable later in the game. It's still not a perfect system, but it's a substantial improvement, without sacrificing commitment in order to convey a really powerful sense of control. The addition of skill tier effects is another cool addition that adds more depth to the system.

Notice how TL2 doesn't have an insane amount of skills. Basically, each class has a total of 27 active skills, and 9 passives, for a grand total of 36 skills. There will still be cookie cutter builds, but what's important here is that every skill can be viable for high-end gameplay. The stat system fully supports this model. It;s surprisingly simple, but very well designed, and fully promotes character customization. You can base your hero on any core stat, or even mix them up, and still remain entirely viable thanks to the exceptional synergy between the skill grid and the stat system. Every core stat is relevant to every class. No mainstat nonsense, no predefined stuff. The player is almost in full control, with the notable exception of level requirements for certain skills and skill levels.

Later on they included the tokens of absolution. However, they understood this needed to not be fully unlimited or automatic. This is why they made it so the player had to farm the 4 components every time they had to respec. Not a big deal, but the intention is clear. Unlimited free respecs completely trivializes the leveling journey. The D2 team understood this, just as much as they understood how some fans were annoyed at the fact of having to reroll if they made a mistake. It was a fine compromise, imho.

Diablo 3 avoids all of this. A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it. I welcome such a change, and anyone who doesn't should go back to old out-dated design philosophies in games like D2 or PoE.


It does, excessively, to the point where none of your choices are relevant anymore. This ridiculous hand holding took it's worst face in D3, leaving us with 5 insipid predefined ragdolls. Heck, even if there were any sort of unlimited respec options, they could at least not have fully suppressed character development. Again, Diablo 3 is more akin to old beat 'em ups than it is to RPGs, because there's no RPG in this game at all. The game's integrity was sacrificed to a vastly popularized playerbase laziness, to the point where this game doesn't even resemble Diablo, or even an ARPG, at it's core. This is why a lot of us don't consider D3 to be more than a moderately fun action arcade game. It's an empty shell as it is.
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Personally i've played many of Blizzards games ranging from Starcraft-WoW vanilla-D2 and all of them had their quirks and downfalls. Yet for all of them the Pros outweighed the cons BUT! D3's cons do outweigh its pros and yes at some stage i was content with the game play, but after some time learning how to gear properly and actually not dieing from every rare or elite creature i ran into, i found out how bleak the game actually was, this being repetitive gameplay, limited/un-unique gearing options, minimal difference between peoples "speccing"(i.e. basically OP skill sets that everyone uses) and as Blashyrkh states, the lack of new content being created for the game. Personally i would move on from D3 and focus on a new game, sequel or just try to totally remaster the game.
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10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
It's crucial for an ARPGs success to have a character development system structured around commitment that fully encourages the player's creativity without trivializing the leveling journey in the way the current skill system does.


The D3 development team should be made to recite this like the Pledge of Allegiance every day when they get to work.

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
Build diversity was characterized as "Frost Orb or Wall of Fire Sorc? Well I'm WW Barb #9,230,492!"


Perhaps for you it was like this. Personally, I played Enchantress, Charged Boltress, Chain Lightning Sorc, Fireball Sorc, FO/Hydra Sorc, etc. etc. Why? because they were all fun VIABLE builds. I hate WW on barbs, so I played Conc Barb. Zerker, Stun Barb, no combat skills Barb, etc. etc. Again, fun VIABLE builds.

I imagine it would feel like a grind sitting in those cow games instead of playing the game and leveling the character oneself. Sorry.
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This is why I consider the Dev team simply doesn't get it. ARPGs usually don't need a whole lot of content updates to thrive, because their exceptional replay value comes from different sources, mostly rerolling new characters. It's crucial for an ARPGs success to have a character development system structured around commitment that fully encourages the player's creativity without trivializing the leveling journey in the way the current skill system does. Think about what made Diablo 2 special, and why it lasted for over a decade, and even today remains somewhat popular. It's a combination of the creativity-stimulating environment it's founded upon and the ladder system. The D3 team headed by Jay Wilson mistakenly (and imho, presumptuously) defined these aspects as artificial complexity. Big mistake.


This is one of the MAJOR reasons Diablo 3 doesn't live up to my expectations, along with the bland itemization.
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add those and it ll be an awesome game.


I don't miss any of those things. D2 is overrated. D3 is better.


Load act4 mp10 and die in a fire please.
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10/15/2013 09:11 AMPosted by Grim
This is one of the MAJOR reasons Diablo 3 doesn't live up to my expectations, along with the bland itemization.


Itemization is just one of multiple consequences from trying to shove MMO-ish concepts down the ARPG pipeline. It's too optimization oriented, and that decision was just reinforced by the implementation of the gearcheck levels.

In WoW this doesn't really matter, because the focus is set on creative encounters that require some degree of skill and team coordination, but Diablo has never been a game about coordination. It's at it's core reckless slaughter with shiny random loot. When you force optimization in such an evident way after claiming the game's been worked on with the "viable over optimal" philosophy, it's hard to not perceive there's some incredible degree of ambivalence within the team. Once again, they need to switch off the WoW chip, and start to think Diablo.
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10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
The "End Game" of D2 was rerolling your class 3-4 times because you put slightly too many points into Energy or Strength.

For you, perhaps.

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
Build diversity was characterized as "Frost Orb or Wall of Fire Sorc?

For you, perhaps. There were myriads of other viable, fun Sorceress builds.

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
in D2 it was a grueling grind just to roll two different kinds of Amazons to a decent level

If it was a "grueling grind" to level two different characters, perhaps you just didn't like the game?

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
and the replay-ability was only generated by the game's archaic methods of locking you into choices you made.

Why "only"? That's a perfectly valid method to generate replayability, one D3 could learn a lot from.

Diablo 3 avoids all of this.

It sure does, to its detriment.

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it.

That's because there's no such thing as a mistake, because you never make a choice.
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10/14/2013 12:26 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Starting by the skill system, the game is designed from the ground up to absolutely trivialize everything under max level. As you level, how many relevant milestones do you feel? How much control do you really feel you have over your character? Are you able to specialize? All these are important questions the designers should be asking themselves when designing an ARPG, yet it would seem like the D3 team didn't even realize what the focus of an ARPG should be. The journey, the progress, the strive. They're all ruined by the wrong focus.


The skill system is what saves you from blandness at end game, allowing you to further test your characters might and flexibility against other players and scenarios. This system allows you the freedom of fine tuning gears and skill synchronicity, giving you the needed edge against these said various opponents/scenarios.

In short, humiliating loses/deaths can be accounted for as experience, but will NOT be sadistically punishing just because you have spent 2,000 hours building/gearing toward a specific spec that stopped working because of changes in the meta-game.

This flexibility allows you to switch from a competitive PvP build to more streamlined steam rolling PvE build. The challenge here is whether you can make it work and reach the top of that which you are striving for.

The rankings are out there for you to test yourself on where your knowledge regarding different areas of the game stand. If the game is too bland as you've mentioned, then people would have the same performance and output in the end right? The question you should be asking yourself is why others stay on top of the heap may it be PvP or PvE.

Again, PvP superiority?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E6QdxUDfJI


Or perhaps PvE flexibility?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSwNxT1V6Z0


Your choice, really. The journey off all Diablo games has always been about rankings and competitive grinding.

This game has never been an adventure of alluring vistas and butterflies from the beginning.

______________________________________________

Troll Hunting MVP
Sanguine Palladian Autonomous Noob Kicker™ (S.P.A.N.K.)
AKA The Black Brigade; We Hunt For Sport ®
Caution: I'm a dude.
Edited by ZRaiyne#6337 on 10/15/2013 8:43 PM PDT
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The skill system is what saves you from blandness at end game, allowing you to further test your characters might and flexibility against other players and scenarios. This system allows you the freedom of fine tuning gears and skill synchronicity, giving you the needed edge against these said various opponents/scenarios.


The skill system itself is bland and uninspired, featuring way more garbage skills than D2's outdated skill system ever did, and the endgame is not what it should be for an ARPG. Again, read what I mentioned about max level gameplay and it's dependance on constant content updates. Without such updates, the game's as good as dead, and will inevitably become boring within a few months, just like it did after launch, after loosing 80% of it's playerbase within the first year, while Diablo 2 stood strong for years. There's literally zero character development in this game, and every character is just as any other of the same class because of this. Flexibility? There's no flexibility in a system that forces you into FOTM builds because the people tuning skills have no sense of balance, and seem overly concerned with dictating how players should play, instead of providing a robust skill system that thoroughly encourages player creativity through properly balanced options.

In short, humiliating loses/deaths can be accounted for as experience, but will NOT be sadistically punishing just because you have spent 2,000 hours building/gearing toward a specific spec that stopped working because of changes in the meta-game.


People playing D2 for over a decade don't seem to believe re rolling was a sadistic punishment, so hyperbolic claims like the one you're making aren't really working as an argument. The point is, making a new character didn't really feel like a chore in D2, because the skill system was tailored to deliver meaningful milestones along the leveling process, instead of just giving you everything at max level and trivialize the whole journey (meaning for journey in the previous paragraph, just in case) unlike the shallow and skill system in D3.

This flexibility allows you to switch from a competitive PvP build to more streamlined steam rolling PvE build. The challenge here is whether you can make it work and reach the top of that which you are building upon.

This "flexibility" is nothing but a lame illusion, because the game features grossly overpowered skills and no sense of overall balance between them. sure, there may be a bit more of a tactical approach for pvp, but that still doesn't mean the apparent flexibility of this skill system is a good thing for the game at it's core. In the end, it just rewards the lazy with excessive handholding.

This game has never been an adventure of alluring vistas and butterflies from the beginning.


Who said anything like this? You seem to deliberately equivocate my words to build a really lame strawman here. When I mention the journey, I'm not talking about beautiful landscapes or critter watching, I'm talking about the actual progression of a character with a structured skill system based on comitment to convey the feeling of actual meaningful choices, something that's completely incompatible with this watered down and excessively flexible MMO-tailored skill system D3 currently has.

Diablo 3 has arguably one of the most progression-starved leveling systems in any ARPG, and that's just assuming D3 is an ARPG for the sake of argument, because it's demonstrably doesn't even belong to the genre.

The fact competition and ranking mean a lot for pretty much every online game (not just this one) is irrelevant. It's not a reason to sacrifice it's integrity for mediocrity's sake just because people simply can't be bothered to play the game as it's supposed to be laid out from a traditionally succesful history, specially when it's evident how disappointing this game has been for the fanbase as a whole. Loosing over half of it's playerbase before it's first year screams louder than any made up depth people want to come up with to justify the myriad of bad decisions made during it's development thanks to a wrong focus, and you know it.
Edited by Blashyrkh#1824 on 10/15/2013 8:42 PM PDT
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10/15/2013 08:40 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
The skill system itself is bland and uninspired, featuring way more garbage skills than D2's outdated skill system ever did, and the endgame is not what it should be for an ARPG. Again, read what I mentioned about max level gameplay and it's dependance on constant content updates. Without such updates, the game's as good as dead, and will inevitably become boring within a few months, just like it did after launch, after loosing 80% of it's playerbase within the first year, while Diablo 2 stood strong for years. There's literally zero character development in this game, and every character is just as any other of the same class because of this. Flexibility? There's no flexibility in a system that forces you into FOTM builds because the people tuning skills have no sense of balance, and seem overly concerned with dictating how players should play, instead of providing a robust skill system that thoroughly encourages player creativity through properly balanced options.


What i see is nothing but a wall of text that is defended by words and not an actual gameplay showcase. How about you show us a run and we'll tell you where you went wrong with your build? What you account for as experiences are nothing but qualms from players who cannot even build their accounts properly given the time spent in the game.

On a personal note, you have barely any progress in this game let alone assume that you have pushed such diversification to the limit. Tell me, what kinds of builds have you built? Upon viewing your profile, I don't even know where that DH of yours excels in.

This game has never dictated the path which you choose to build your characters. For one, it has never dictated me from building whatever i wanted. Again, you are assuming on the basis of personal feelings.

There are so many builds out there that are fun to play, relying on creativity and timing rather than pure damage efficiency. However, i highly doubt that you have played any of them as we can see that you have already reached this saturation point you seem to be defending so much.

I will not comment on your pointless wall of text any further, unless you can prove yourself in a real run. Let's see how much you know that you can so easily justify blandness with a snap of a finger. :)

You haven't even ventured in the brawling aspect of the game now have you?

You'd be surprised at the variety of builds you can play in that area of the game too. Just because you cannot do doesn't mean that it is bad. The fault is just in you.

Please, you speak of illusion like you understand it truly. You are however betrayed by your account which speaks for itself. Now that is a prime example of player delusion.

Don't you agree?

Oh, Diablo 2 stood strong? With enigma as the end game build you mean? Please do not make me laugh. There is only one dominating build in that game.

Naked sorcs and pigeon holed Enigma blinkers. Diversity my crack. :)

______________________________________________

Troll Hunting MVP
Sanguine Palladian Autonomous Noob Kicker™ (S.P.A.N.K.)
AKA The Black Brigade; We Hunt For Sport ®
Caution: I'm a dude.
Edited by ZRaiyne#6337 on 10/15/2013 9:19 PM PDT
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10/15/2013 07:37 PMPosted by Dogf
The "End Game" of D2 was rerolling your class 3-4 times because you put slightly too many points into Energy or Strength.

For you, perhaps.

Build diversity was characterized as "Frost Orb or Wall of Fire Sorc?

For you, perhaps. There were myriads of other viable, fun Sorceress builds.

in D2 it was a grueling grind just to roll two different kinds of Amazons to a decent level

If it was a "grueling grind" to level two different characters, perhaps you just didn't like the game?

and the replay-ability was only generated by the game's archaic methods of locking you into choices you made.

Why "only"? That's a perfectly valid method to generate replayability, one D3 could learn a lot from.

Diablo 3 avoids all of this.

It sure does, to its detriment.

10/14/2013 10:50 PMPosted by Omniance
A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it.

That's because there's no such thing as a mistake, because you never make a choice.


D2 wasn't some mystical land of amazement where everything was butterflies and beautiful game design. The majority of D2 was min/maxing characters to equip the right gear at the right time to increase your rate of leveling and farming. Once the initial newness wore off and you were killing Diablo for the 70th time, there was no other purpose to play the game other than to grind out alts and MF sets, so that you could grind out gear and make leveling alts more easy. It's been said multiple times in this thread that that was D2's "End Game", and it was grueling and ridiculous, and I don't miss it at all.

Diablo 2 forced you to power through 60-70 levels and place specific points into specific areas at specific leveling thresholds with unerring rigidity. It wasn't much of a choice, it was really your only option in most cases. I have no idea when or how you played the game, but it mustn't have been at higher levels like 85+ and it mustn't have been after D2's initial release or closely following the release of LoD. The game took time, and by time, I mean days just to get back to the enjoyable parts after Blizzard would do a change of some kind or when LoD was released (I'm not blaming Blizzard for such changes, in many cases they needed to happen).

The game was "Grueling Grind" because leveling 2 different characters was after I already leveled 5-9 characters before that due to being entirely unable to undo what I had done hours to days earlier without realizing it. This is what Diablo 2 was like at high-end play. Deal with it.

Diablo 3 isn't like this at all, much to my thanks. I do not have to reroll a Demon Hunter 3-4 times to try out all the different specs and off-builds. I do not have to re-level every class when RoS is released due to sweeping redesigns, nerfs, and buffs, and then re-level them again after the first few balancing patches hit. I do not have to pour hours and hours into grinding to try out new things. I can do them all instantly and immediately by returning to town.

You can laud and applause that Glacial Spike Sorceress, or the clown-like Potion Find Barbarian if you want to. The fact is that there weren't a "myriad" of viable builds for reaching high level play quickly and competently. There were a myriad of builds that were moderately fun to try out, but ultimately inferior and many of them reduced progression to the point that you'd just be getting carried along by everyone else in your group.

Every day I log into D3 and I make choices. "Do I want to run Rocket Hunter spec? Rapid Fire? Bola Shot with Impending Doom or Bitter Pill, maybe even Thunder Ball? Do I want to try Smoke Screen with Shadow Power, or Caltrops with Sentries? What kind of Sentries do I want to use?"

When thinking this in Diablo 2 terms it was "Do I want to level a Trapssassin over the next week? Or do I want to re-level my Sorceress and try a Hydra spec since they rebuffed them after LoD's release? Maybe I can try grinding up that Teeth Necro I've been thinking of?"

The primary difference here is that in D3 I can make those choices whenever I want and just play with them immediately after. In D2 the exact opposite of that was only possible, and the ridiculous character limit made it that much worse.
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Ah, the profile card! I was expecting someone to come up with that popular strawman at some point. Yes, I've switched over to a self found style of play, in order to try and find some sort of rewarding gameplay within this mess. Yeah, it hasn't gone too well, unfortunately. Does this mean I don't know how to play? Hardly. I've tried a lot of stuff before when I used to rely on the AH, but it simply wasn't fulfilling my expectations for this game. Was I the best DH around? Most definitely not. Heck, with the gear I had procured without resourcing to flipping or shelling extra cash, most would consider my gear subpar, at best. However, you're right. I'm no pvp enthusiast, because I honestly don't think pvp based on gear in a game where credit cards are king is in any way meaningful, or even fair for those of us who strongly support ingame efforts. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid. I hope you can understand why.

Regardless of whatever experience you or any other "pro" want to honour me with is completely irrelevant to the points being made in this thread.

Breaking news, you don't even need to even reach inferno to realize what's wrong with this game as a Diablo game. In fact, you don't even need to finish it once in normal to identify several critical flaws within it's design, starting by the how awfully shallow the skill system is, and the stark contrast with fully fleshed out ARPGs right around the corner.

Do you think you know it all just because you happened to flip the auction house or purchase your gear with cash? Red herrings aren't going to make your argument more sound, and I'm very sure you know it. Do you really need to see a video of someone facerolling MP10 like it meant anything at all? Or some overpimped duelist with 150k health and insane mitigation "pwning" hundreds of contenders? You can be just as challenged with ghetto gear in MP3 as you would be with your flipped gear in MP10. I honestly don't think that's a hard conclusion to make, considering this game has been turned into just a series of gearcheck to encourage epeen "competitions" such as the one you're trying to lure me into right now.

Yes, I actually change a lot my build periodically. This is why I can actually claim to have actually experimented thinking outside the box. Heck, if you were as seasoned as you claim to be, you'd understand the logic behind my current build without even asking about it, yet you're there, wondering why the hell am I using what I'm using? Then again, who am I to question someone with godly gear, right? I mean, that's the belittling method of the pros when nothing else seems to work, even if it's absolutely irrelevant to the actual discussion taking place. After all, You're considered a noob if you're not even specced into the current FOTM build for max efficiency! Then people wonder why this system is so awfully restricting, despite it's alleged "flexibility".

But enough of this offtopic nonsense. I honestly don't want to get this thing locked, defeating my own purpose to generate some interesting debating about the problems within D3 current systems. If you honestly can't bring something to the table without trying to derail it into an epeen contest, I respectfully ask you to simply leave the thread and try to lure someone who's actually interested in that sort of "discussion".
Edited by Blashyrkh#1824 on 10/15/2013 9:23 PM PDT
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It sure does, to its detriment.

[quote]A single mistake doesn't force you to pour 50+ more hours into the game to fix it.

That's because there's no such thing as a mistake, because you never make a choice.


^

This game has 6 builds : Monk, Barbarian, Demon hunter, Witch doctor, Wizard, and Throw barb

The 6th is only possible due to making the choice to balance gear/skills around the three hundreth spear.

Let people respec classes and watch how quickly 6 turns into 3. Cm/freeze, perma wotb, throw barb.

No cost respect is the cause of FOTM. If you can respec anytime for no charge and gear affects them all equally. You have no need to think or tweak about building vs your weaknesses. Go with the highest output, switch it up if you encounter something it's not strong vs.

For this type of system to offer any diversity all skill combinations of each class have to equal the same output. Since perfect balance is never obtained : the devs constantly try to buff the weaker builds from a strictly dps/reduct standpoint until eventually they over correct and that build becomes the new strongest that everyone switches to.

I see people call the old system archaic.... Do you actually prefer Fotm or do you not see the correlation?

Since perfect balance will never happen, the key to build diversity is : Providing more incentive to stick to your current build and tweak it to be stronger vs everything, yet not excel in one thing. If you want to be the best at one thing : you build a character just for that and accept it's weakness elsewhere. The incentive that functions as a reward for sticking to your build, will also be perceived as punishment for those that don't. Reward-punishment are simply two different perspectives of the same thing.
Edited by Vencenzo#1510 on 10/15/2013 10:34 PM PDT
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10/15/2013 09:59 PMPosted by Vencenzo
No cost respect is the cause of FOTM. If you can respec anytime for no charge and gear affects them all equally. You have no need to think or tweak about building vs your weaknesses. Go with the highest output, switch it up if you encounter something it's not strong vs.


The cost of that respec is the re-gearing itself since CM wizard gears are vastly different from Archon wizard gears. Applying the skill change directly will mostly result to inefficiency and even death to most classes.

There are many more builds out there that do not funnel into specifics. With GAH trading only, it is very challenging to build these characters efficiently making you think about alternatives and even subsidizing on various areas to compensate.

I will also mention that there are many more hidden builds out there that need more than just a hot swap of certain gears to work efficiently. :)

10/15/2013 01:42 PMPosted by WorstTossNA
Load act4 mp10 and die in a fire please.


That's not even enough to get many of us killed. :)

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Caution: I'm a dude.
Edited by ZRaiyne#6337 on 10/15/2013 10:42 PM PDT
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