Diablo® III

hota/ww vs hota vs ww

First off I know this has probably been discussed to death, my apologies but I was away while hota came back to the fore (when they buffed exp gain in high mp levels).

A lot of this is personal preference I know but what do you think is most efficient given a specific level of gear? Presumably the fact that a lot of high level people I see use ww/hota hybrid means this is the best in terms of bang-for-your-buck. Having said that I can't help but feel you are compromising the beautiful synergies of a ww barb for the sake of a single target dps that assumes you have sufficient fury to spam (basically you are trading a fury generator, itself a compromise on the 'pure build', for a high damage, non-fury generator).

I have tried a pure hota barb using thunderstrike, rend:bl and op:ks. The farming speed undoubtedly goes down but kill speed on elites goes up. There is also an extra slot for fury gen, ehp (warcry) or extra cc (best served cold) depending on the situation.

Pure ww is what I am most comfortable with although no fury generator can lead to frustration, in particular when I start lagging. It is obviously weak against kiting mobs and single targets, however, provided your deeps are sufficient for the mp level you choose to play then a couple of rends should do the trick (failing this you can always ignore a mob).

I'd like to know what people's opinions are on these three builds. For the hota/ww hybrids, do you prefer keeping op or rend? How much time do you spend wwing vs hota? Is ww/rltw just to maintain fury and kill off weak mobs?
Reply Quote
HotA/ww is optimal neither for trash nor for elites, but it's good at doing both in a way that the "pure" builds aren't. It's also the easiest to play (IMO)

The players most serious about DE farming will drop ww completely, and will sub in bash for the damage buff. The best DE farming (which essentially measures the rate of elite kills over time) comes from HotA/bash/leap builds. It's too stressful to play for me, and the fury management with a Skorn is very difficult.

It's easier to just right click and spin your way through to comfortably move quickly and generate fury, and then HotA when you hit an elite.

The best xp farming comes from the opposite, cramming in as many aoe skills as possible, ie ww, rend, opks. But with this build, killing elites can be a nuisance without gear swapping. Once again an extra hassle for the sake of optimality.

HotA/ww does fine at killing trash. HotA essentially becomes a dead skill after you've gotten your stacks, but there's no issue in cruising through trash with ww and rend. It's suboptimal but easy. If you don't have ww or rend on your skill bar, on the other hand, killing trash is incredibly clunky. The best DE farming builds are pretty much unviable for trash farming.

If I have ww/hota/rend on my skill bar, and someone invites me for a VotA run, I don't have to change anything. If someone then invites me for a crypt run, I still don't have to change anything. With one of the specialized builds, I'd have to respec for one or the other. ww/hota hybrid builds are jacks of all trades but masters of none, so there are better options if you're trying to min-max one route in particular.

Rend vs op:ks isn't that straightforward to answer for raw damage output. OP:KS also has the advantage of making fury much easier. But rend's healing can make you a lot tougher with a Skorn, so its hard to say no to.
Reply Quote
If I have ww/hota/rend on my skill bar, and someone invites me for a VotA run, I don't have to change anything. If someone then invites me for a crypt run, I still don't have to change anything. With one of the specialized builds, I'd have to respec for one or the other. ww/hota hybrid builds are jacks of all trades but masters of none, so there are better options if you're trying to min-max one route in particular.

Rend vs op:ks isn't that straightforward to answer for raw damage output. OP:KS also has the advantage of making fury much easier. But rend's healing can make you a lot tougher with a Skorn, so its hard to say no to.

Do you find getting going to be a pain? Do you switch in unforgiving for a few seconds or just let stuff hit you? Thanks for the considered response btw.
Reply Quote
I don't use any tricks. I just go in and let stuff hit me.

One thing that I've noticed recently while trying to teach people to let go of the generator is that the root of their problems is actually that they don't know how to ww properly in itself and use the generator as a crutch throughout. They're used to stopping and bashing when it gets down to one or two mobs, instead of either making tight circles around them or moving onto the next pack.
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,931
View profile
I don't use any tricks. I just go in and let stuff hit me.

One thing that I've noticed recently while trying to teach people to let go of the generator is that the root of their problems is actually that they don't know how to ww properly in itself and use the generator as a crutch throughout. They're used to stopping and bashing when it gets down to one or two mobs, instead of either making tight circles around them or moving onto the next pack.


For WW newbies i'd say it's a good idea to use a fury gen. i think part of the reason why newbies have a hard time going straight to WW/hota no regen is like you said, they don't know how to WW properly from beginning to end and on to the next patch of mobs with tight circles. So I see it as taking one step at a time. Once you master WW then you take the back wheels off and let go of the regen. yea it's going to feel funny but at least you have an idea of what should happen and expect. I know your gonna ding me on this lol.
Reply Quote
You can learn either way, it's just that so many people "no fury generator is hard" when in reality it's just that they aren't ww'ing properly altogether. If you ww properly there's no reason for it.

So its not about learning how to not use a generator, its learning how to ww in the first place.
Reply Quote
Tbh. I have no idea how HoTA> pure WW even for elite farming. (unless we're talking about MP7-8)

400% damage on a single target vs RLTW+WW+OP:KS+Rend on multiple targets.

:/ someone mind explaining this to me?
Reply Quote
Tbh. I have no idea how HoTA> pure WW even for elite farming. (unless we're talking about MP7-8)

400% damage on a single target vs RLTW+WW+OP:KS+Rend on multiple targets.

:/ someone mind explaining this to me?

Positioning. It shouldn't be a single target. If you have to HotA each elite one by one it's really weak and ww will win by a landslide. Against stuff like yellows there's absolutely no contest, HotA will win every time. Overall I think both average out pretty similarly.

But if you're searching for optimality, HotA on MP7-MP9 (>8 for the ultra-geared only) is where its at for DE's/hr. If you're not searching for optimality, then pretty much everything is a matter of opinion and personal preference.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/17/2013 2:33 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,289
View profile
I've tried them all, I keep going back to WW, though I have been stopping and bashing 3 times on extra health champions. Might be my imagination but they seem to die faster.
Edited by GenghisKhan#1476 on 10/17/2013 2:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Tbh. I have no idea how HoTA> pure WW even for elite farming. (unless we're talking about MP7-8)

400% damage on a single target vs RLTW+WW+OP:KS+Rend on multiple targets.

:/ someone mind explaining this to me?

Positioning. It shouldn't be a single target. If you have to HotA each elite one by one it's really weak and ww will win by a landslide. Against stuff like yellows there's absolutely no contest, HotA will win every time. Overall I think both average out pretty similarly.

But if you're searching for optimality, HotA on MP7-MP9 (>8 for the ultra-geared only) is where its at for DE's/hr. If you're not searching for optimality, then pretty much everything is a matter of opinion and personal preference.


How do people get optimal positioning when most of them use EFs with HoTA?

>.>
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,931
View profile
Tbh. I have no idea how HoTA> pure WW even for elite farming. (unless we're talking about MP7-8)

400% damage on a single target vs RLTW+WW+OP:KS+Rend on multiple targets.

:/ someone mind explaining this to me?


good question. it's a good debate and a close call. I would say it comes down how well you're geared for either skill build. 2h? dw? enough AS/CD?

I personally like hota/ww/rend. it's really a matter of chosing hota over OP;KS....in my book hota takes it.
Reply Quote

Positioning. It shouldn't be a single target. If you have to HotA each elite one by one it's really weak and ww will win by a landslide. Against stuff like yellows there's absolutely no contest, HotA will win every time. Overall I think both average out pretty similarly.

But if you're searching for optimality, HotA on MP7-MP9 (>8 for the ultra-geared only) is where its at for DE's/hr. If you're not searching for optimality, then pretty much everything is a matter of opinion and personal preference.


How do people get optimal positioning when most of them use EFs with HoTA?

>.>

I'd really love to make a snide comment about how horribly EF's go with HotA...but the fact of the matter is, Chazhang put up up the fastest DE farming times for any barb by a wide margin with one.

So the serious answer is, a combination of leap:death from above, freeze scoundrel, cold soj, and just plain killing them in the blink of an eye.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/17/2013 2:49 PM PDT
Reply Quote


How do people get optimal positioning when most of them use EFs with HoTA?

>.>

I'd really love to make a snide comment about how horribly EF's go with HotA...but the fact of the matter is, Chazhang put up up the fastest DE farming times for any barb by a wide margin with one.

So the serious answer is, a combination of leap:death from above, freeze scoundrel, cold soj, and just plain killing them in the blink of an eye.


And cherry picking one of your 50 recorded runs for the best timings possible.

^ really crucial btw.
Reply Quote
When it comes to setting records, its necessary. Usain Bolt wouldn't set any records on a morning jog. (Well, maybe he would...)

The best result is the best result, regardless of what it entailed to obtain it.
Edited by silverfire#1855 on 10/17/2013 3:02 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 3,289
View profile
When it comes to setting records, its necessary. Usain Bolt wouldn't set any records on a morning jog. (Well, maybe he would...)

The best result is the best result, regardless of what it entailed to obtain it.


Using the track analogy, Usain has has run many races. The record is the fastest one.
Reply Quote
When it comes to setting records, its necessary. Usain Bolt wouldn't set any records on a morning jog. (Well, maybe he would...)

The best result is the best result, regardless of what it entailed to obtain it.


Meh. Personal opinion is that it's about consistency. And EF is the worst weapon for consistent results.
Reply Quote
Very recently I have been testing various builds based on HotA for the possible RoS changes. I have a variety of -HotA gear to include IK BB -5, Skorn -5, Mara's -5...etc. Today however I forgot to change out my Skull Grasp with my Unity and my VotA run was completely different, it was by far the fastest I have ever done.

The skills and gear I have on currently yielded the fasted I have ever farmed for DE....it was actually incredible, I don't know if I will ever change this setup until RoS comes out. Granted Unity gives me more tDPS overall but swapping between HotA and WW with this was incredible and I actually generated fury using HotA and reset my clock as well.

I am not a video or expert by no means but today I noticed a very noticeable play difference and it was all because I had the additional -4 to HotA without losing a breakpoint in WW.

I hope the experts can advise because I am certainly amazed. WW/HotA blend might not be considered the most optimal but today I used both in the most optimal method and the blend proved to be the most effective in my particular case.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]