Diablo® III

Something I read on diablofans.com

- specific category restrictions
- fairly noticeable changes to hero skills

Stop trying to box players into your game model and just give us possibilities. People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice. How the hell is this not the base philosophy for the foundation of D3 I don't know. Educated guess or magic 8 ball or whatever suggests it's a model that doesn't generate enough $$ signs. I personally was thrilled when I initially read there was going to be a place to put paragon points. Then I later read it was 4 buckets and a guy standing there saying "put it in here", "put it in there". I'm sorry Blizzard but you just don't get it.

And on the topic of game changes. Keep wow out of my D3. Don't take the Blizzard approach and say "hey expansion? Lets re-write the entire skill system". Fairly noticeable is pretty ambiguous and great for PR but lets be honest we don't want wowablo

TL/DR Give us lots of paragon points and lots of places to put them and say "have fun" enough with the restrictions

Keep your wow out of my D3 cereal
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- specific category restrictions
- fairly noticeable changes to hero skills

Stop trying to box players into your game model and just give us possibilities. People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice. How the hell is this not the base philosophy for the foundation of D3 I don't know. Educated guess or magic 8 ball or whatever suggests it's a model that doesn't generate enough $$ signs. I personally was thrilled when I initially read there was going to be a place to put paragon points. Then I later read it was 4 buckets and a guy standing there saying "put it in here", "put it in there". I'm sorry Blizzard but you just don't get it.

And on the topic of game changes. Keep wow out of my D3. Don't take the Blizzard approach and say "hey expansion? Lets re-write the entire skill system". Fairly noticeable is pretty ambiguous and great for PR but lets be honest we don't want wowablo

TL/DR Give us lots of paragon points and lots of places to put them and say "have fun" enough with the restrictions

Keep your wow out of my D3 cereal


Speak for yourself. I like my Wow cereal. This is not D2. The lines between MMO and ARPG are bluring which is a good thing. Thank you Blizz for not making a carbon copy of D2. Good job!
I want a second bowl of Wow cereal with marshmallow Boa pieces.
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Speak for yourself. I like my Wow cereal. This is not D2. The lines between MMO and ARPG are bluring which is a good thing. Thank you Blizz for not making a carbon copy of D2. Good job!
I want a second bowl of Wow cereal with marshmallow Boa pieces.


No, it is not a good thing. Blizz used to do ARPG's well and MMO's well separately. D3 is a prime example of what goes wrong when you try to do 2 things exceedingly well at the same time, mediocre results. The only thing MMO adopted by D3 is the item/skill/stat structure, there is NOTHING massively multiplayer about this game. 4 person games, static re-use of areas, no interactive environment features to speak of besides smashables, no PVP, etc. is about as far from MMO as you can get.

By trying to meld the two genres they lost everything that makes both genres stand on their own. MMO's get persistent, large, and interactive worlds with many players. ARPG's get vast amounts of loot that are diverse, game changing, and can often times be manipulated by players.

Would I have liked to get some MMO features like MUCH larger parties? yep, that would have been awesome. Having the town center in each act be a meeting place for multiple parties to band together or choose to fight each other? mmmhhhmm Guild/Clan centers for trading between hundreds of members, chat rooms with a large volume of users, I could keep going but you generally get the idea...

As for the ARPG elements, the combat system feels more fluid than D2 or many other ARPG's, I can't knock Blizz for that. Stats, skills, and items are my main point of contention. Yes, D2's stat-required itemization was antiquated and needed to go. However, stat allocation is sorely missed. Especially due to the MMO element of stats being the entire powerbase for your character. With itemization that has no power, no game changing elements, and nothing unique, everything is a stat wheel. No stat allocation exacerbates this issue, if I get a great ammy but no vit, I need to allocate some points to vit now, can I do that? no...why? the game chose all my stats for me for no particular reason besides *we didn't think players were smart enough to allocate their own stats*. These new elements go against everything an ARPG is, you make choices and you have to live with them until you complete a quest, acquire an item (or craft one), or have enough funds to reverse your previous decisions and go down a new route. This made decisions about character identity important. Now nothing really matters except finding items with big numbers attached, the proof of this is in the console launch.

This game has a TON of potential, but all of the information coming out about Loot 2.0, Paragon, and expansion are extremely disconcerting. It's the same "here's some more stats!" with even less emphasis on skill power (lookin at you barb nerf - yes datamined and non-final, but really it's horrific). While the D2 skill tree may have been more complicated to plan out, especially for first time players, the rewards for each level were vastly superior to what we have now, items with 3-5% increase in damage? really? each level in D2 would grant you ~9% with diminishing returns after many levels, +1 to X skill items would unlock more builds and variability between players. All of that diversity is absent now, it needs to come back. Then sure, inject some MMO into well built ARPG bones.
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Speak for yourself. I like my Wow cereal. This is not D2. The lines between MMO and ARPG are bluring which is a good thing. Thank you Blizz for not making a carbon copy of D2. Good job!I want a second bowl of Wow cereal with marshmallow Boa pieces.


You are correct that this isn't D2. The problem with that, is that this game isn't DIABLO 3 either.

Blizzard should NOT make a game for WOW fans and call it a diablo game.
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Posts: 248
10/20/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Battletag
People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice.


Many fans of D3 will not understand this. I wonder if any Blue's do.
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besides keeping wow out of d3!

i wish blizzard would give us a new inventory system similar to the console's and stop making us play a mini tretris game with items.

or more simply put just make everything take only one slot ?? is it that hard to change?
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- specific category restrictions
- fairly noticeable changes to hero skills

Stop trying to box players into your game model and just give us possibilities. People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice. How the hell is this not the base philosophy for the foundation of D3 I don't know. Educated guess or magic 8 ball or whatever suggests it's a model that doesn't generate enough $$ signs. I personally was thrilled when I initially read there was going to be a place to put paragon points. Then I later read it was 4 buckets and a guy standing there saying "put it in here", "put it in there". I'm sorry Blizzard but you just don't get it.

And on the topic of game changes. Keep wow out of my D3. Don't take the Blizzard approach and say "hey expansion? Lets re-write the entire skill system". Fairly noticeable is pretty ambiguous and great for PR but lets be honest we don't want wowablo

TL/DR Give us lots of paragon points and lots of places to put them and say "have fun" enough with the restrictions

Keep your wow out of my D3 cereal


I feel the same.

I played WoW a lot and I played D2 a lot.

If I want to play a Barb or Crusader and I'm NOT a TANK; if the game is balanced according to the D2 style, I'll be able to find all sorts of multiplayer games that want me.
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10/20/2013 04:26 PMPosted by scorch
People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice.


Many fans of D3 will not understand this. I wonder if any Blue's do.


I tried a concentrate barb build in D2, pretty much of an awesome tank build you can get in that version of the game. Thing was, there was NO GUARANTEE that the mobs wouldn't chase after some sorry butt glass cannon sorc/zon instead.

WE NEED SOMEONE TO AGGRO!!!
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u madd bro
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10/20/2013 01:54 PMPosted by Battletag
Don't take the Blizzard approach and say "hey expansion? Lets re-write the entire skill system".


The entire skill system NEEDS a drastic re-write. Runes on rails is why I quit playing. I am hopeful that the new system will be more fun. (i.e. imaginative use of lootable runes)
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- specific category restrictions
- fairly noticeable changes to hero skills

Stop trying to box players into your game model and just give us possibilities. People played D2 and still play D2 because it was never the same game experience twice. How the hell is this not the base philosophy for the foundation of D3 I don't know. Educated guess or magic 8 ball or whatever suggests it's a model that doesn't generate enough $$ signs. I personally was thrilled when I initially read there was going to be a place to put paragon points. Then I later read it was 4 buckets and a guy standing there saying "put it in here", "put it in there". I'm sorry Blizzard but you just don't get it.

And on the topic of game changes. Keep wow out of my D3. Don't take the Blizzard approach and say "hey expansion? Lets re-write the entire skill system". Fairly noticeable is pretty ambiguous and great for PR but lets be honest we don't want wowablo

TL/DR Give us lots of paragon points and lots of places to put them and say "have fun" enough with the restrictions

Keep your wow out of my D3 cereal


Speak for yourself. I like my Wow cereal. This is not D2. The lines between MMO and ARPG are bluring which is a good thing. Thank you Blizz for not making a carbon copy of D2. Good job!
I want a second bowl of Wow cereal with marshmallow Boa pieces.


Open up a box of WoW if you like that cereal so much. We opened a box of Diablo cereal because, well, we wanted Diablo cereal. They come in separate boxes & should stay that way.
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I suggested right after they implemented paragon levels that you be assigned paragon points to put into skill runes and those points are unrefundable.

That way, you can give a character some uniqueness all while not completely taking away from the freedom of skill respecs.

Say, you have a bell monk. You really love the bell monk build and want to improve on it. You want to be able to spam bells like you wouldn't believe. So what you do is dump 40 paragon points into Wave of Light's empowered wave rune. At -0.5 spirit cost (rounded up) per paragon point, it drops Wave of Light to 20 spirit per cast. Perhaps you want your bells to dish out the pain. So you drop 40 points into the Wall of Light rune. At say, 10% per point, you deal an extra 400% damage, for a total of 1602%.

Of course, I'm just throwing around numbers without regard to balance, but I think this is a good idea towards promoting uniqueness while not taking away from the fact that D3's base talent system is not static.

Need to use another skill instead of bell at some point? Sure, but it's not going to be buffed up. Don't like how your improved bell monk turned out? Reroll a new monk and try another build.

It's a little compromise for the fact that they will never go to a totally static talent system in this game.
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After at least ten years playing D2 I still have a number of builds/projects I want to complete. After ten months of D3 I've done just about everything that I want to do. That pretty much sums it up for me. That's not saying the game is bad, just not replayable.
Edited by TheNix#6417 on 10/20/2013 6:34 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 06:24 PMPosted by Yura
I suggested right after they implemented paragon levels that you be assigned paragon points to put into skill runes and those points are unrefundable.


Unrefundable? No thanks. Why do people want to go back to the stone age that is D2?
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For me i wish it was more complicated so many when i play i don't fall alseep in the first 20-30 min of playing.

# of Sockets: 2 Helm, 2 Boots, 1 Gloves, 1 Bracer, 2 Shoulders, 1 Ammy, 1 RIng, 3 Body Armor, 3 Pants, 1-2 Weapons.

19-20 Sockets in a Gear set.

There are 50+ runes that drop at loot.
Of those runes there are multiple types and uses.
If using 2 of the same rune it adds +10% damage/healing for that particular rune/skill.
Up to a cap of 100% Damage. so 10 runes for a maxed out skill.

Say one is called "Fire" any class could use it for new skill (each class's new skill is identical or a different new skill for each class)

Say one is called "Earth" and it grants a new Secondary skill for each class. All classes get same skill or different skill.

The fire runes since they can be used by any class and no skill type restriction is the lowest tier type of runes.

Say 3 fire runes makes another rune "Backdraft" that grants a Secondary Skill for each class. All classes get same or Different skill.

Now say 3 backdraft runes makes "Molten" that grants a "Might" skill. Only class with "Might" skills are barbs.

"Molthen could even be the lowest rune type class restriction runes could be the lowest and once you get higher ones they can be used by more classes or all classes.

So there could be 3 or 4 teirs of runes baised different ranges.

adds depth to skills and customization and a possible alternative currency to streamline trading post AH closer.
Edited by Holy#1110 on 10/20/2013 9:17 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 07:24 PMPosted by Socs
I suggested right after they implemented paragon levels that you be assigned paragon points to put into skill runes and those points are unrefundable.


Unrefundable? No thanks. Why do people want to go back to the stone age that is D2?


Because it gives your character uniqueness while not taking anything away from the talent system as a whole.

There are really very few true "builds" in this game. Not much that you see a gear set and think, I can make an awesome build with that gear set and such and such talents. Character builds are one of the fundamental properties of an ARPG, historically. I didn't say the entire talent system had to be set in stone. I said the bonuses you get from end-game grinding would help form your character into his or her own, rather than just being another monk, wizard or what have you.

If you have suggestions on how to make this a better ARPG game, by all means, throw your ideas out there.

At least I'm attempting to contribute to making this a decent game.
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10/20/2013 02:31 PMPosted by Socs
I want a second bowl of Wow cereal with marshmallow Boa pieces


then go play wow.

this is diablo.

you are what is wrong with this community.
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