Diablo® III

Teleport vs Improved Archon?

I always liked teleport archon, but most archon in mp10 crypt runs seem to use improved(?)..
So i'm just curious, which archon do u use? n why?

Improved Archon Advantage
- more damage

Teleport Archon Advantages
- better survival, great for avoiding nasty situation (e.g. perfect escape skill against molten, frozen, arcane sentry, etc)
- faster movement speed (faster solo run, easier to keep up with fast paced team, e.g. crypt runs)
- more damage (relocate to optimal position during fight for max damage, i.e. attack more mobs at same time)
- definitely more fun, compared to improved archon
- cooler n proer than improved archon ;)

I'll upload mp10 crypt run video with tele archon when I have time. I think its really fun for crypt runs, you can teleport to next group instantly during fight(great for luring elites to next group). It can be super fun when you get to the field, cos there are usually large mobs(with few savage beasts n trees) and you can use teleport to avoid all savage beast charge n tree droppings, and attack from optimal position.
scramble tele archon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlb3bCkAuyU (will update the link with crypt tele archon later)
Edited by aw3s0m0#1140 on 10/23/2013 7:33 PM PDT
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I'm guessing Improved Archon is used to kill things faster when mobility isn't an issue. If your EHP is crazy high and you melt fast enough already, you probably don't need teleport. Higher DPS with LS might be able to out survive teleport in some situations too since the returns are greater.
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I've been debating this too, but I still think Teleport wins, ESPECIALLY if you're running with CM. Here's why:

Improved Archon might be more DPS, but the faster kill speed of non-CC mobs is negated by the following:

-Teleport allows you to travel quicker between packs.
-Teleport allows you to reposition out of CC/ground effects instantly so you don't waste time moving.
-Teleport still gives you more EHP than Improved Archon. At higher MP levels the extra 25% with LS doesn't make up for standing in any combination of 2 ground effects, especially if reflect damage is involved.

I'm currently 'fast farming' MP6 at almost 300k dps, 1100ar, 6.2k armor, 42k hp, LS, and I still have to tele around during certain packs combos.
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peter bliz always run teleport archon and melts like he's improved but no, it's just his gg gears
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aw3s0m0, I haven't used Teleport Archon in ages. Maybe I should try it today.
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I tried both and there were significant difference in killing time, so I ended up choosing improved Archon but I wanted to try again. And will share with you all.
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10/21/2013 08:24 AMPosted by pichapie
peter bliz always run teleport archon and melts like he's improved but no, it's just his gg gears

lol peter bliz = new audir8? :)
anyway that's some impressive gear, he can probably do tele archon on mp10 solo without problem.

10/21/2013 08:28 AMPosted by jenpeezey
aw3s0m0, I haven't used Teleport Archon in ages. Maybe I should try it today.

its pretty fun for mp10 crypt runs imo, ill send ya invite to the crypt channel.
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definitely. he melts mp10 in groups so yeah....
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that's a crypt channel? :S
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I want to like tele archon, I really do, but I just can't. A big part of my problem, though, is that I'm only around 550k buffed even with force weapon, and I strongly prefer blood magic anyways.

I guess my gear isn't up to par to solo MP10 (and possibly not even 9) with teleport archon. The damage hit is just too much for me to take. If I had gear at your level, I'd probably reconsider. As of now, it feels too sluggish. Most of the time I run MP10 in parties, though, so maintaining isn't the issue. It's just just that giving up 25% damage is so noticeable.

The other thing I don't like about it is that it's only one teleport. Then you have to wait for the cooldown to reset, and even that happens nowhere nearly as fast as it does with SNS. If archon teleport worked like teleport wormhole, I'd probably be more inclined to use it. As it is, it doesn't feel like it gives me much mobility. It just lets me jump to another part of the map, every so often.

I get all the same benefits that you list for teleport archon without the DPS hit with storm armor scramble, and it's a lot easier and more reliable to proc. Uptime is close to 100% in dense areas if I want it to be, and it lets me dodge danger and reposition very easily, and I can keep up with ww barbs in act 1.

It's personal preference though. There's no doubt that lack of mobility is archon's greatest weakness.
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Teleport is fine when you have excess of 700K DPS or so. I run Scramble-Teleport Archon when I throw on my Tal chest (about 740K self-buffed DPS), but there really is no need for Teleport when there's mob density. You don't have to speed up getting from one group of mobs to another. If you're trading DPS (kill time) for mobility, how much are you really speeding up? Sure you get to one pack earlier, but you'll be killing said pack over a longer period of time.

Survivability? Teleport is great for Frozen and Jailer, that's about it. But if your EHP is high enough, it really doesn't matter what the game throws at you as long as you have something to hit (which is always unless you're AFK).

For Decaying Crypt, I see no point in running Teleport over Improved because there are mobs everywhere. It's a different story for VotA. If I'm to run Archon in a team VotA game (which is almost never), I'd go with Scramble-Teleport. But if it's a general EXP/loot run, I go with Improved for the much bigger DPS. A good group will have a Cyclone monk and SNS wizard anyway, so there shouldn't be much aggro on you, thus less need for Teleport to avoid crowd control.

Bottom line: 25% less damage is a lot, especially when you're sustaining it over time, e.g. against elites.
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Quick question: the 25% bonus is multiplicative with the beam damage correct? So the beam ends up doing 375% weapon damage, not 325% correct?

Or, theoretically ignoring breakpoints, it's the same as perma-frenzy shrine?
Edited by Mikhail#1367 on 10/21/2013 1:00 PM PDT
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Quick question: the 25% bonus is multiplicative with the beam damage correct? So the beam ends up doing 375% weapon damage, not 325% correct?

Or, theoretically ignoring breakpoints, it's the same as perma-frenzy shrine?


Ya it's 375
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10/21/2013 12:59 PMPosted by Mikhail
Or, theoretically ignoring breakpoints, it's the same as perma-frenzy shrine?


Correct me if I'm wrong but frenzy shrine is additive with your other IAS on gear, so it's not a flat 25% dps increase. Minor point, but 20 vs 25% is still noticeable to some extent.

Personally, I prefer improved because it lets me farm 1-2 MP higher and still kill elites sufficiently fast. That means more xp and better chances at loot. It also raises survivability because the extra DPS means more life returns.

Teleport with CM has limited usefulness outside of emergency situations, since you only move about 2/3 of a screen per teleport. So you kill things 25% slower, and after each pack get to teleport less than 1 screen ahead, then run the rest of the way to the next pack if applicable. Still, I wish I could use teleport on high MP but I only run MP9 since I'm barely over 500k buffed just because it's annoying dying to something which would be easily survived with a simple teleport (such as surrounded by mobs and them dropping frozen at your feed or surrounding you with fire chains. With strategic play the number of those situations which occur can be minimized, but they still pop up from time to time.
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Survivability? Teleport is great for Frozen and Jailer, that's about it. But if your EHP is high enough, it really doesn't matter what the game throws at you as long as you have something to hit (which is always unless you're AFK).

For Decaying Crypt, I see no point in running Teleport over Improved because there are mobs everywhere. It's a different story for VotA. If I'm to run Archon in a team VotA game (which is almost never), I'd go with Scramble-Teleport. But if it's a general EXP/loot run, I go with Improved for the much bigger DPS. A good group will have a Cyclone monk and SNS wizard anyway, so there shouldn't be much aggro on you, thus less need for Teleport to avoid crowd control.

Bottom line: 25% less damage is a lot, especially when you're sustaining it over time, e.g. against elites.

Well not everyone can afford high dps archon with high ehp too, and that's when teleport comes handy. Besides you wouldn't really want to be stuck on molten with 2-3 arcane sentry, against waller elite even if you had great ehp.
Looks like you have a pro archon(very good dps + great ehp, 442k unbuff, 754k ehp) but personally I prefer archon like poppins(if he had that dps with ls weapon, 558k unbuff, 318k ehp) cos I prefer dps over ehp on archon. :)
Its just personal preference but I would rather get more dps than ehp if I had option(n I have low ehp atm heh). Honestly I would def pick new sword(1350dps, 11% ias, 75% cd, os, ls = ~+50k dps for me) over mempo(9/6, 195int, 12% life = ~+50k ehp for me) if I had choice.

Improved archon is bit slow for crypt runs imo cos pretty much everyone can move faster than you(zdps monk, ww barb, wd, dh, cm wiz, tele archon, etc). Also you can easily use the teleport to attack ~20-40% more mobs in crypt(not all the time oc).
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Completely off topic, but I just remember where your ID came from, Awesome-o 3000! (or 2000) from South Park!
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10/21/2013 05:55 PMPosted by Mnk
Completely off topic, but I just remember where your ID came from, Awesome-o 3000! (or 2000) from South Park!

lol yer, I think it was called "AWESOM-O 4000" :D
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Just uploaded mp10 Crypt run with Tele Archon (had to make new youtube account cos couldn't remember old pw)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFy6AYNV-Hs
thumbs up for tele archon :)

team = cm + tele archon + 2x useless barbs(one noob barb)
~9mins in crypt, ~3mins outside, but would been much quicker if we had puller monk n wd instead of barbs.
Edited by aw3s0m0#1140 on 10/23/2013 7:36 PM PDT
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