Diablo® III

Hit% gone? Why?

I think attack rating % is almost like crit chance. Kind of works in very similiar way.
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In d2 monsters actauly had their defense,resists and dmg reduction if im not wrong. D3 is just watered down version for brain dead WoW players.
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10/20/2013 03:41 PMPosted by DRON
In d2 monsters actauly had their defense,resists and dmg reduction if im not wrong. D3 is just watered down version for brain dead WoW players.


Yes, this is another thing taken out of the game I myself noticed to, but be careful, people may say these things are pointless and to just to play hardcore for a challenge lol.
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Taking a big swing at a monster only to hear a "swish" and nothing happening does not make for satisfying combat, but having to balance the attack rating stat makes for satisfying theorycrafting.

Blizzard just went for more satisfying combat.


Blizzard didn't go for more satisfying combat, they just dumbed down the game. What do you really need to figure out how to avoid a "swish"? Grade 6 math?

Seems the way Blizz figured out, most 17 year olds are in grade 6 or below.
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This was one of the best changes they made. I'm so happy Hit % is gone.
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10/20/2013 03:41 PMPosted by DRON
In d2 monsters actauly had their defense,resists and dmg reduction if im not wrong. D3 is just watered down version for brain dead WoW players.


Yep,D3 is more "Diablo Lite" than a true successor to the series.yeah the graphics and combat are far superior,otherwise it's mostly just references to the older titles using same named Items like Gidbinn,Oculous,Magefist,Frostburns, etc. (which are also a laughable addition compared to the actual usefulness of the originals)
Oversimplified to the extreme,completely based on weapon dmg and not skills,as the originals were. Still feels like a Beta,or maybe a console game,hmm? All but one of the longtime D2 players I had on my list that bought D3 (18 I think) have left,the remaining one logs in every few weeks plays or checks ah for a few minutes and leaves.. D2 players expected an expanded,modernized version to continue the series we played and loved,instead we get a vastly simplified version without any of the depth the originals had,and that people played for over 12 years,think this will last that long?
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10/20/2013 04:04 PMPosted by WarHogg
In d2 monsters actauly had their defense,resists and dmg reduction if im not wrong. D3 is just watered down version for brain dead WoW players.


Yep,D3 is more "Diablo Lite" than a true successor to the series.yeah the graphics and combat are far superior,otherwise it's mostly just references to the older titles using same named Items like Gidbinn,Oculous,Magefist,Frostburns, etc. (which are also a laughable addition compared to the actual usefulness of the originals)
Oversimplified to the extreme,completely based on weapon dmg and not skills,as the originals were. Still feels like a Beta,or maybe a console game,hmm? All but one of the longtime D2 players I had on my list that bought D3 (18 I think) have left,the remaining one logs in every few weeks plays or checks ah for a few minutes and leaves.. D2 players expected an expanded,modernized version to continue the series we played and loved,instead we get a vastly simplified version without any of the depth the originals had,and that people played for over 12 years,think this will last that long?


+1
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10/20/2013 02:40 PMPosted by Zalm
"Leave no one behind" policy.


Lol, I like this. It kinda puts the game into perspective. Higher intellect theory crafters have to slow down in order to accommodate the more 'casual' players because Blizzard didnt want anyone feeling too stupid to play.

lol

I don't think that was completely the problem. The issue (I think) was that there was such an utterly massive difference between the defense of players and the defense of monsters, which snuck into the game while they were unawares. If you ever try to duel a paladin with your melee zealer, or melee druid, there's just no way to hit them. The only abilities that work are the ones that don't rely on attack rating. Barbs can sometimes get by that with whirlwind, but it requires a massive boost of attack rating from charms, which nobody could legitemately find on their own.

I don't think that it was for simple players. I think that it was to add simplicity for the programmers. An exponential, runaway variable can ruin everything.
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Let me just add one point not yet given by those before me.

If we have Hit%, the server must return the result of an attack (hit or miss) before displaying your damage. Just think for a second, every damage that pops up on your screen must make a return trip half way round the world before displaying.

That will cause "floaty-ness" in combat.

And before you claim that D2 could handle it, D2 never had this much damage pop ups at once.

Whatever dubious "strategic" value hit% may have is not worth the cost.
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Because it was a poor mechanic for an ARPG.

People like to be in control of their characters and want that control to be reliable. Hit chance wasn't fun. You felt obligated to keep it maxed because there was never any reason not to. It's the same kind of boring feeling people have with move speed or IAS/CC/CD.

This didn't add complexity to the game it added another obligation.
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This post made me think about angelics amulet and ring combo - the attack rating based on character level 2 set bonus

you can say hit % was pointless, and the point and click is now your hit %, but that's just completely two different things.

Hit % was another wall you had to climb when deciding how to build your character and gear him. Of course a lot of aspects like this were annoying in D2; NO ONE actually LIKES these concepts alone. Who the hell would want to lose experience and gold when dying, or missing too many attacks - it is necessary to give these guidelines everyone needs to play by in order to compete and progress passed others. It adds a layer of challenge in separating yourself from others by choosing your numbers wisely. Hitting was a checkpoint whether you are ready for harder monsters. (don't tell me to play hardcore for a challenge - putting a sword and shield on every character, stacking defensive stats, and crawling through maps at a snails pace pulling 1 monster at a time is not a challenge; its a time dump until that 1 disconnect happens where you lose everything at an instant.)

Now, we have everything handed to us so players don't even need to think about anything. Taking the easy way out because its more convenient for everyone does not make a game better. The actual pointing and clicking is our hit %? That's laughable considering every attack is the size of a pingpong ball, and the monsters are twice their size. (proportionality in this game is out of whack!) It's almost impossible to miss when using a spell while mousing over when most of them have "target seeking" properties - Not to mention you CANNOT dodge most projectiles in this game after it was shot, since it follows you (ex. arrows) Try shooting arrows at a target in D1 then in D3 and youll know what I mean. You can go through 100 shots before hitting a monster walking back and fourth unless you time it right. Most attacks followed a grid line and if the monster wasnt standing directly on it when the attack reached him, (NOT WHEN FIRED), miss. (who remembers using hallways to line up targets?)

All in all, people obviously don't want to have further restrictions on making their character the best. It's the fact that we all have to play and overcome them in a race to be the best. It about abiding by the rules the game has laid out, and progressing passed them better than others
Edited by Durabolin#1796 on 10/20/2013 7:30 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 02:05 PMPosted by Nicator
The 95% chance to hit did exist in D2. Spells required no dexterity. Check any sorc or hammerdin setup.


or Wind Druid
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One of my favorite quotes perfect for this thread

Long ago, it was all about who's better at something. Now, it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?
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10/20/2013 07:24 PMPosted by StoneOld
It gets exasperating to see, and pointless to respond to, after a while


Maybe because it is clearly an issue of concern for a majority of players if they keep getting brought up. People aren't discussing these topics just to do it - its how they think the game can improve, then getting everyone else's red or green light to make it a new game rule
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Personally I think AR was one of those stat that make the entry into the game for newcomers really difficult, that's probably why Blizzard removed it also.

I can't think of any other D2 mechanic that broke characters without being obvious about it. Damage is easy to understand, defense and block was a bit harder, but still fairly easy to understand.

But AR? I think I still don't fully understand it even though I've been playing for almost 10 years and when I first started, my characters were just utterly useless because of the AR mechanic. It took me a long time to even get my head around AR. I don't think the problem was with the stat itself, but the way you gain AR, which mostly depended on items.

It's hard to judge if you need angelics set or mara's with ravens. It's hard to find a fool's mod on a decent weapon. It's hard to know whether your AR is okay or not with AR% bonuses from skills which are not shown. It's hard to judge how much damage or defense or other stats are worth losing to gain more AR.

The worst thing is trying to test AR, since changing items to get AR almost always involved increases and decreases in other stats. For example, I always choose the safe option when playing bowzon to use a faith bow as my primary weapon because it gives insane AR bonuses, but truly don't know if equiping WF is better because of the insane damage increase, and get the aura bonus from faith by using a merc, while losing other potential auras such as concentrate from pride.

Sure all these things made the game difficult to master, but that is useless without being easy to pick up.
Edited by Harmless#1221 on 10/20/2013 7:34 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Durabolin
It gets exasperating to see, and pointless to respond to, after a while


Maybe because it is clearly an issue of concern for a majority of players if they keep getting brought up. People aren't discussing these topics just to do it - its how they think the game can improve, then getting everyone else's red or green light to make it a new game rule


how does hit% improve the game?
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how does hit% improve the game?
It's hard to judge if you need angelics set or mara's with ravens. It's hard to find a fool's mod on a decent weapon. It's hard to know whether your AR is okay or not with AR% bonuses from skills which are not shown. It's hard to judge how much damage or defense or other stats are worth losing to gain more AR.


Long ago, it was all about who's better at something. Now, it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?
Edited by Durabolin#1796 on 10/20/2013 7:34 PM PDT
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The 95% chance to hit did exist in D2. Spells required no dexterity. Check any sorc or hammerdin setup.

It also required deep mathematics understanding to see the difference between 1000 dmg at 40% chance to hit and 750 dmg at 80%. Dev team don't want to risk their customers having an aneurysm or something. "Leave no one behind" policy.


It was more an issue of players not really enjoying dealing with not actually hitting a monster some of the time. While it made sense from an RPG standpoint, from an action standpoint it made little sense and just added to frustration, especially since survival was tied to the life/mana leeching mechanisms.

There is also the issue of procs being wildly unpredictable beyond reason. To keep some of the old effect though, proc coefficients were introduced with D3, since all attacks actually hit now. D3 went about balancing hit% vs. damage done in a different manner is all. It was only the scaling in D3 caused by the synergy between critical hit chance and critical hit damage that caused D3's scaling to be worse in reality than D2's ever was on paper.

Nobody really wants to go back to not hitting monsters. They'd rather have other options and diversity from not having to deal with that mechanism. Even the WoW developers are starting to realize that the players are finding the "stack to the hit cap" mechanism to be about as interesting as watching the clouds go by.

It was a fine mechanism when there were fewer mechanics in a game to deal with, but nowadays it's a relic that can have its effects similarly mimicked in other ways that are more enjoyable.
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