Diablo® III

Hit% gone? Why?

10/20/2013 07:30 PMPosted by Harmless
Sure all these things made the game difficult to master, but that is useless without being easy to pick up.


Not sure what there isn't to understand. You turn your hit percent into a ratio to judge your attacks missed : landed. Everyone should be shooting for a 75%+ range to be effective
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It also required deep mathematics understanding to see the difference between 1000 dmg at 40% chance to hit and 750 dmg at 80%. Dev team don't want to risk their customers having an aneurysm or something. "Leave no one behind" policy.


The Leave no one behind policy: it fits into every issue with the game

Long ago, it was all about who's better at something. Now, it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?


The leave no one behind policy is ruining the game....making everything easier and more convenient for everyone does not make a better game
Edited by Durabolin#1796 on 10/20/2013 7:44 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 07:38 PMPosted by StoneOld
Seriously? And who is going to make this "new game rule," based on anything that gets said on this forum about this subject?


Seriously? 80% of threads are suggestions in how to make their game experience better. Blizzard is listening because no one knows how to improve the game better than the customers. It's up to them to weed out the irrelevant ones, and focus on the ones where everyone as a majority agrees could be changed. The change may be someone who suggested it in the thread, or blizzards version of it. The point is, these issues get pointed out as a something to be fixed, no matter who makes the new rule
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10/20/2013 03:34 PMPosted by HeavyDuty
Because it's dumb!!! Ugh I really can't believe people keep asking for all the worst parts of the game. If you want a challenge go play hardcore. No one wants attack rating, prerequisites, more death penalties, stamina potions, or any other pointless stuff. Just STOP ASKING for them!


Everyone has different opinion dude, these things you mentioned were part of the original games that made diablo 1 and 2. They were not pointless stuff, they added challenge to the game in core mode that people liked and disliked. Some people, myself included, find taking some of these things out makes the game out to be to simple minded. Heck, the game currently is pretty much just about dps numbers...

Also, you state "No one wants", the things you mentioned, yet I see plenty off people who do...:S. So once again, its just based off opinions.


The chances to hit were meant to add realism to the combat. In a box ring, you'll see how rookies can't land a single hit on a pro boxer. Even between pros, they miss sometimes too. Anyone saying the contrary has no idea what's he talking about.

Anyways, this is not reality and most have troubles with mathematics. They rather click-click and get their biscuit always. Again, leave no one behind.
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WE DONT WANT TO MAKE THE GAME TOO HARD, NOW DO WE? Blizzard needs to cater their games to people who can't carry out simple mental math problems...right?
Edited by Durabolin#1796 on 10/20/2013 7:49 PM PDT
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Sure all these things made the game difficult to master, but that is useless without being easy to pick up.


Not sure what there isn't to understand. You turn your hit percent into a ratio to judge your attacks missed : landed. Everyone should be shooting for a 75%+ range to be effective


It's not that simple in diablo 2, when you didn't hit you didn't know if it was the monster defense or your AR that's the problem. It sounds simple, but d2 was never about going at monsters at a 1v1 basis, and AR becomes extremely complicated when you talk about AOE mechanics. 75% is what I've always heard but that poses a problem too, because your hit% shown is based on the last monster you tried to attack (I think) and it always changes. There are also -def and -def% on hit, ignore defense mods which also complicates things. Also newcomers don't have a large pool of items to choose from and the AR mechanic funnels (there are also others) those into "safe" item choices that are proven to work rather than encourage exploring different combination of stats.
Edited by Harmless#1221 on 10/20/2013 7:49 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 07:33 PMPosted by Durabolin
how does hit% improve the game?
It's hard to judge if you need angelics set or mara's with ravens. It's hard to find a fool's mod on a decent weapon. It's hard to know whether your AR is okay or not with AR% bonuses from skills which are not shown. It's hard to judge how much damage or defense or other stats are worth losing to gain more AR.


Long ago, it was all about who's better at something. Now, it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?


ok in response to the first part, thats just unnecessary complication. You don't need hit to have a difficulty of judgment on what's better. We already have stats that do that, unfortunately that is entirely negated from the fact that the game literally tells you whats better.

to the second part, anyone with half a brain would understand how idiotic that statement is
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Not sure what there isn't to understand. You turn your hit percent into a ratio to judge your attacks missed : landed. Everyone should be shooting for a 75%+ range to be effective


It's not that simple in diablo 2, when you didn't hit you didn't know if it was the monster defense or your AR that's the problem. It sounds simple, but d2 was never about going at monsters at a 1v1 basis, and AR becomes extremely complicated when you talk about AOE mechanics. 75% is what I've always heard but that poses a problem too, because your hit% shown is based on the last monster you tried to attack (I think) and it always changes. There are also -def and -def% on hit, ignore defense mods which also complicates things. Also newcomers don't have a large pool of items to choose from and the AR mechanic funnels (there are also others) those into "safe" item choices that are proven to work rather than encourage exploring different combination of stats.


The whole point of hit % is to get it as high as possible. Once you've acquired enough (75% is a good base), then you don't even need to worry about monster defenses - THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT. No one has to calculate their hit % to monster defenses before stepping out into the blood moor. You're taking it way too far. You get ~75% hit rate, go whack some stuff, observe if you're missing too much, and go get some more if you need to! There is nothing wrong with -def / ignore def mods. Removing them only made the game more plain and boring. You simply equipped the item on your character and took advantage of the server calculating the new defenses. Which then ties into observing how much youre missing, and deciding if you need to get more of the stat. I know, I know this is just too much brainpower for some people. WAAAAY to much thinking.

10/20/2013 07:38 PMPosted by Durabolin
it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?
Edited by Durabolin#1796 on 10/20/2013 7:57 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Providence
ok in response to the first part, thats just unnecessary complication. You don't need hit to have a difficulty of judgment on what's better. We already have stats that do that, unfortunately that is entirely negated from the fact that the game literally tells you whats better.


All I see here is a bunch of people asking a game to become more boring because its too much thinking, or "complication" in deciding your fate of the character. The game should do it all for you, right? We should all be uniform, in a utopia?
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It's not that simple in diablo 2, when you didn't hit you didn't know if it was the monster defense or your AR that's the problem. It sounds simple, but d2 was never about going at monsters at a 1v1 basis, and AR becomes extremely complicated when you talk about AOE mechanics. 75% is what I've always heard but that poses a problem too, because your hit% shown is based on the last monster you tried to attack (I think) and it always changes. There are also -def and -def% on hit, ignore defense mods which also complicates things. Also newcomers don't have a large pool of items to choose from and the AR mechanic funnels (there are also others) those into "safe" item choices that are proven to work rather than encourage exploring different combination of stats.


The whole point of hit % is to get it as high as possible. Once you've acquired enough (75% is a good base), then you don't even need to worry about monster defenses - THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT THAT. No one has to calculate their hit % to monster defenses before stepping out into the blood moor. You're taking it way too far. You get ~75% hit rate, go whack some stuff, observe if you're missing too much, and go get some more if you need to! There is nothing wrong with -def / ignore def mods. You simply equipped the item on your character and took advantage of the server calculating the new defenses. Which then ties observing how much youre missing, and whether you need to get more of the stat. I know, I know this is just too much brainpower for some people. WAAAAY to much thinking.

10/20/2013 07:38 PMPosted by Durabolin
it's politically incorrect to do things better because handicapped and lazy people will feel bad about themselves, and we don't want to hurt their feelings, do we?


The 75% logic is a shining example of people not understanding AR though. 70-75% is just a "safe" logic option that people always say because they don't truly the relationship between AR IAS and damage, which further gets complicated by gear choices.

I mean I've run characters with as low as 40% vs baal, and as high as 90% vs baal and they all do just fine. So why do people throw around 75%?
Edited by Harmless#1221 on 10/20/2013 8:04 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 08:00 PMPosted by Durabolin
ok in response to the first part, thats just unnecessary complication. You don't need hit to have a difficulty of judgment on what's better. We already have stats that do that, unfortunately that is entirely negated from the fact that the game literally tells you whats better.


All I see here is a bunch of people asking a game to become more boring because its too much thinking, or "complication" in deciding your fate of the character. The game should do it all for you, right? We should all be uniform, in a utopia?


People were uniform in d2. Have you even played that game?

Hit was not complicated. You stacked it until you hit 95%. done. What depth does that add? At least now we aren't bogged down with stupid states like a chance to be successful at hitting in a skill we already aimed.
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10/20/2013 03:19 PMPosted by StoneOld
This is how it should be. I don't want to be clicking on the monster and have my game graphics visually show me that I'm hitting it, while some dice roll in the background calculates that I missed.


Would you also support removing dodge from the game?
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10/20/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Providence


All I see here is a bunch of people asking a game to become more boring because its too much thinking, or "complication" in deciding your fate of the character. The game should do it all for you, right? We should all be uniform, in a utopia?


People were uniform in d2. Have you even played that game?

Hit was not complicated. You stacked it until you hit 95%. done. What depth does that add? At least now we aren't bogged down with stupid states like a chance to be successful at hitting in a skill we already aimed.


95% is more of a number from wow, 95% is very rare in characters that play d2.
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Real question is why did they remove crushing blow and deadly strike...
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The 95% chance to hit did exist in D2. Spells required no dexterity. Check any sorc or hammerdin setup.

It also required deep mathematics understanding to see the difference between 1000 dmg at 40% chance to hit and 750 dmg at 80%. Dev team don't want to risk their customers having an aneurysm or something. "Leave no one behind" policy.


It was more an issue of players not really enjoying dealing with not actually hitting a monster some of the time. While it made sense from an RPG standpoint, from an action standpoint it made little sense and just added to frustration, especially since survival was tied to the life/mana leeching mechanisms.

There is also the issue of procs being wildly unpredictable beyond reason. To keep some of the old effect though, proc coefficients were introduced with D3, since all attacks actually hit now. D3 went about balancing hit% vs. damage done in a different manner is all. It was only the scaling in D3 caused by the synergy between critical hit chance and critical hit damage that caused D3's scaling to be worse in reality than D2's ever was on paper.

Nobody really wants to go back to not hitting monsters. They'd rather have other options and diversity from not having to deal with that mechanism. Even the WoW developers are starting to realize that the players are finding the "stack to the hit cap" mechanism to be about as interesting as watching the clouds go by.

It was a fine mechanism when there were fewer mechanics in a game to deal with, but nowadays it's a relic that can have its effects similarly mimicked in other ways that are more enjoyable.
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I like this reply.

It was more an issue of players not really enjoying dealing with not actually hitting a monster some of the time. While it made sense from an RPG standpoint, from an action standpoint it made little sense and just added to frustration


Nobody enjoyed missing hits, the same as nobody enjoys failing at an exam. But there were mechanisms to reduce the impact of missed hits in fights, the same as people can prepare for exams. It added layers into the game. 100% hit chance is shallow and unrealistic.

Nobody really wants to go back to not hitting monsters. They'd rather have other options and diversity from not having to deal with that mechanism.


If by options you mean yellow or orange armor, then sure we have options. What most seem to miss is that the chance to hit worked on both sides. Monsters didn't always hit characters. The chosen option makes difficult combats a gear check rather than a test of skill. Not having the appropriate shoes will increase the time of a runner. In D3, not having the appropriate shoes means the runner can't finish the course.

It was a fine mechanism when there were fewer mechanics in a game to deal with, but nowadays it's a relic that can have its effects similarly mimicked in other ways that are more enjoyable.


Yes, you can arrive to such conclusion when your premises are right, i.e., no practical chance to stop characters to miss enough hits to get them killed; and, the solution presented, 100% hit chances against monsters AND players, holds any game skill in itself. As it is now, the 100% chance to hit against players is worst from a game point of view, as game skill leaves its place to gear check. In D2 it was possible to add dexterity or play a spell class; in D3 is, mostly, gear.

Now, it's not that I expect a change in D3. Just pointing out what did change with that mechanism removal.
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All I see here is a bunch of people asking a game to become more boring because its too much thinking, or "complication" in deciding your fate of the character. The game should do it all for you, right? We should all be uniform, in a utopia?


People were uniform in d2. Have you even played that game?

Hit was not complicated. You stacked it until you hit 95%. done. What depth does that add? At least now we aren't bogged down with stupid states like a chance to be successful at hitting in a skill we already aimed.


I have to ask if you played D2 yourself. 95% was the cap people knew about only when playing against lower, a lot lower, monster level. There was no way in hell to reach the cap between similar monster and character level. There were sites about game theory crafting regarding such mechanisms: How much to dex in melee to hit something without having too low vit. Not everyone agreed on the numbers, hence no uniformity, nor in builds nor in gear.

You stacked it until you hit 95%. done. What depth does that add?


LMAO
Edited by Nicator#1579 on 10/20/2013 9:17 PM PDT
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10/20/2013 08:06 PMPosted by Cougnut
Real question is why did they remove crushing blow and deadly strike...

Deadly strike is crit% and crit damage%, I miss crushing blows though :(


I have to ask if you played D2 yourself. 95% was the cap people knew about only when playing against lower, a lot lower, monster level. There was no way in hell to reach the cap between similar monster and character level. There were sites about game theory crafting regarding such mechanisms: How much to dex in melee to hit something without having too low vit. Not everyone agreed on the numbers, hence no uniformity, nor in builds nor in gear.

I'm pretty sure there was a consensus on dex for AR, which was 0. Only reason anyone chooses dex over vit was for block %, which scaled linearly. AR doesn't scale linearly.

I can't speak for how people played before 1.08 though.
Edited by Harmless#1221 on 10/20/2013 11:28 PM PDT
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