Diablo® III

Datamined info:Goodbye Barbs. Dh lmao

So we won't be able to WW at the end game basically? Then what is the freaking point of playing a barb? What singular skill carried over from D2 is THE iconic skill of the barb? The one that sums up the essence of the character? It's WW, clearly. And what was overpowered about into the fray? That skill allows me to simply KEEP WW going. Look: barbs have to HIT things up close to kill, unlike ranged pew pew classes. With no perma WOTB (which was OP, fine) we need some realistic way to mitigate freezing and other deadly affix effects which wizards and DH and WD just avoid. Not a crappy ring or something wasting a slot with cannot be frozen mod and + 30 to intelligence and a bonus to WD fire bats skill, lol!

And we MUST have an effective way to then sustain WW. They want WW to be more self sufficient? Fine, lower the fury cost by HALF at least and increase damage along with moving at normal speed. Seriously I use a 2 handed mighty wep and weapons master passive and I eat up fury as it is to keep WW going. How can you do it without a way to generate appropriate fury?
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If you toss all your eggs into one basket, don't be surprised when they get crushed by the nerf hammer.

On a tangent, before Blizzard steals the idea, I am getting a trademark on the in game item: Die Nurffenhammer (there is an umlaut over the u.) The weapon of choice in PVP. Each blow permanently weakens opponent skills.
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You aren't looking at the whole picture.

How is the barb ruined exactly?
- There's a shield passive that gives resource with each block.
- There's an item that gives 20% resource per health globe.
- There's an item that doubles the chance of health globe dropping.
- Barbs have passives that buff their resource and health globes.
- Barbs can reduce cooldowns significantly with paragon points and diamond in helm.
- Reduced cost of skills due to items like SoJ
- Monsters are being nerfed to compensate for Loot 2.0 change (Reflect damage for example)

Just looking at what's written on the skill is misleading. I'm confident that unlimited (or resonably unlimited) WW will be viable post patch because of the above. Unlimited WotB is gone for sure but you can easily reduce that cooldown significantly if you wanted to for elites.

You claim the barb and DH will be useless. Do you really think that's Blizzards goal here? Class balancing means that certain classes will be weaker and others stronger. DH got all of one nerf with about a dozen buffs. They are the most improved class post patch by a long shot.


Yo, Yo!!! hold on! We cant have reason and logic used here!

BTW some guy already made a video where he is using skills that imitate RoS and WW with unlimited fury and it worked fine but overall he was at 75% effectiveness compared to standard build.
Add skill and item changes that you mentioned on it and it will be just as good again.

As far as DH goes you are absolutely correct, there was only a single skill nerfed which was Shadow Power since they are nerfing ALL lifesteal from the game while everything else got super buffed, yet people cry about it?

Even guy who wrote the article seems a bit clueless since he doesn't realize that smoke screen already has 2 second CD and that change it only to tooltip and not the actual skill.
Edited by Bodhi#1778 on 10/16/2013 11:36 AM PDT
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As previous posters have said, it's just a few OP/broken synergies that are getting... fixed. "Builds" do exist atm - but only 2 viable ones for most classes!

My main is an Archon wiz. I love playing it, but it's blatantly obvious that I shouldn't be able to zoom around in Archon form the whole time. Just like CM perma-freeze, or perma-zerking.

These skills are kindof game-breaking because they are so powerful. We should be able (if we put a lot of effort into our builds and get the right gear) use them very, very often. But not all the time.


agreed :-)

i know. just don't make it dull... we have endured this 'badly designed' game for over a year. some of us have thrive with what already is and redefined 'fun' itself.

cheers. :-)
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This isn't even about WW Barbs.

WDs (the class most notorious for resource management problems) actually have many different generation methods.

DHs have a decent number (most of which are also getting nerfed via deletion).

Barbs have one, 15 fury on crit.

1 - 1 = 0, and without that you end up with builds that almost never use fury and still have like 25% uptime on Berserker Rage because you hardly gain any, either. Without that there's no WW, no hammers, barely any Rend. It turns Barbs into this dinky crawling little S&B tank that has almost no shield support when you got a Str based sword and shield class coming out at the same time. Yeah...

So how ya like them Runepriests?
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I read some godly barb threads in the barbs forums a while back. They were all QQ even if they say no, they were not crying.

Well, tbh I played ww barb for a year and I know is way to OP compared to the other classes. With the 2 emeralds and fully wotb buffed (keeping my IK set) I was doing 400k dps damage and only died when rubberbanding.

That's cool, I thought, then I tried the other classes and I saw the problem.

I'm ok with a complete change of skills and I dont care if the nerfing is too much (which I think will be knowing this dev team)

just move on, evolve, learn the new skills and pray loot 2.0 helps (Im not very hopeful here) and just keep playing
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10/16/2013 12:09 PMPosted by Spectral
Barbs have one, 15 fury on crit.


It's funny that you say that. The fact that you think Barbs have only one way of generating fury is EXACTLY why it needs to be nerfed. Try and think about how OP BR:ItF is.

You pick up this one skill that you were going to pick up anyway because of the passive dmg boost it gives. And then you stack crit chance and atk speed, DPS stats that you were already going to stack, and you have infinite resources. You have so much resources, that you don't even need to play with a resource generator skill.

Did you forget about those resource generator skills? I wouldn't be surprised. Oncce you hit infinite fury mode, they become useless, and you're simply gimping yourself by using them. Same with any other rune for BR, or any other skill. Even mighty weapons with Wpn master is seen as useless because you get sooooo much more out of the 10% crit using a mace/axe and BR:ItF.

So yea it needs a nerf. Because if you actually tried a Barb build without ItF, you'd realize it's practically mandatory due to the massive efficiency loss you incur by not using it. And if we constantly have one skill that's mandatory, where's the fun in that? Where's the strategy in that? Why not just make it an innate passive so that way Barbs actually get to use all 6 skill slots?
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Look NOOBS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugl73v2H5Iw

100M per Hour with nerfed skills, I saw even better videos with Mp10.

WW wont be useless, Barbs wont be useless, you will only need to adapt by switching few skills, and in time when you get paragon levels and loot 2.0 gear to buff you up, you will most likely be able to use WW barb just as you can now.

P.S. There will also new MANY new builds that will emerge so you will have even more options to slay monsters with!
Edited by Bodhi#1778 on 10/16/2013 12:42 PM PDT
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Just took a look at the most recent datamined info and every single decent skill the barb used is gone. Figured they were gonna nerf the barb but damn they nerfed this fool into the ground, I dont even reconize this fool anymore. I really thought they would buff the Dh a lot but without Shadow power and LS this class is useless. Thank god i dont have to sell my barb gear because i can just transfer all of it over to the Crusader or i really would have been screwed.

http://www.diablo3.org/news/new-demon-hunter-changes#.Ul6VpVCsim4 DH: info

http://www.diablo3.org/news/new-barbarian-changes#.Ul6T6lCsim4 Barb info


Can you just wait until things are actually finalized before you make preemptive judgments? It's extremely immature to make assumptions like this and complain about them.
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Just took a look at the most recent datamined info and every single decent skill the barb used is gone. Figured they were gonna nerf the barb but damn they nerfed this fool into the ground, I dont even reconize this fool anymore. I really thought they would buff the Dh a lot but without Shadow power and LS this class is useless. Thank god i dont have to sell my barb gear because i can just transfer all of it over to the Crusader or i really would have been screwed.

http://www.diablo3.org/news/new-demon-hunter-changes#.Ul6VpVCsim4 DH: info

http://www.diablo3.org/news/new-barbarian-changes#.Ul6T6lCsim4 Barb info


Can you just wait until things are actually finalized before you make preemptive judgments? It's extremely immature to make assumptions like this and complain about them.

Yeah these nerfs along with the CD,CC, IAS caps will completely break the Barb, oh that's right the latest dataming shows the caps were removed...

It's cool to see the datamining to see what changes the devs are looking into.., but you have the Chicken Littles of the world who insist the sky is always falling.
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Sooo, what you're saying is basically "hey let's nerf the most fun and barbarian-like build the char has by making it impossible to even keep WW up in fights, and then make players EVEN MORE dependent on new Loot 2.0(tm) gear that might give them the effective fury generating mods so they can play the char!" Let me get this straight: Diablo 3 needs LESS actual char abilities, and MORE dependency on gear...right...

Did anyone here ever play D2? For God's sake, making us now have to hunt for gear with fury generators on top of all other vital gear check mods is the LAST thing the game needs! You end up with pathetic powerless dolls that are essentially empty suits: can't do squat without all their perfect gear. Wow, that's epic!

I'm saying it again, someone tell me how to generate fury to keep using just WW to fight without ANY effective in fight fury generator?! Please try it now without Into the Fray and let me know how it goes. And yes I'm using a mighty weapon and weapons master passive, in the face of the continuous high cost of WW (and it's relatively low damage) the fury will drain like water through a sieve without that skill. Where's the replacement options? Anyone?
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Look NOOBS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ugl73v2H5Iw

100M per Hour with nerfed skills, I saw even better videos with Mp10.

WW wont be useless, Barbs wont be useless, you will only need to adapt by switching few skills, and in time when you get paragon levels and loot 2.0 gear to buff you up, you will most likely be able to use WW barb just as you can now.

P.S. There will also new MANY new builds that will emerge so you will have even more options to slay monsters with!


Glad you make this point. There are SEVERAL ways to get fury up. One of the eziest and oldest ways was to use a mighty weapon with the weapon master passive. That coupled with a few specific active skills yields the EXACT SAME results: full fury 24/7. Yeah you might take a little hit on the dps side, but guess what.....I can still WW around np all the while stating: "I'm Rick James bit*ches!"
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Sooo, what you're saying is basically "hey let's nerf the most fun and barbarian-like build the char has by making it impossible to even keep WW up in fights, and then make players EVEN MORE dependent on new Loot 2.0(tm) gear that might give them the effective fury generating mods so they can play the char!" Let me get this straight: Diablo 3 needs LESS actual char abilities, and MORE dependency on gear...right...

Did anyone here ever play D2? For God's sake, making us now have to hunt for gear with fury generators on top of all other vital gear check mods is the LAST thing the game needs! You end up with pathetic powerless dolls that are essentially empty suits: can't do squat without all their perfect gear. Wow, that's epic!

I'm saying it again, someone tell me how to generate fury to keep using just WW to fight without ANY effective in fight fury generator?! Please try it now without Into the Fray and let me know how it goes. And yes I'm using a mighty weapon and weapons master passive, in the face of the continuous high cost of WW (and it's relatively low damage) the fury will drain like water through a sieve without that skill. Where's the replacement options? Anyone?


See here's a Chicken Little, don't believe him the sky really isn't falling!
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Take a look at my profile Blacksword.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/oOSlushyOo-1208/hero/14096048

Have absolutely no fury generating issues if you use Battle Rage-Blood Shed and Overpower-Momentum
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Then give me an example: how, specifically, would one accomplish this? What skills work to keep WW going through generating enough fury continuously?
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10/16/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Blacksword
Let me get this straight: Diablo 3 needs LESS actual char abilities, and MORE dependency on gear...right...


You clearly haven't seen the other passive changes that provide other ways to generate fury. Not only that, but there's videos of people not using ItF and still having a viable WW build. Relax, the WW build isnt going anywhere.

Did anyone here ever play D2? For God's sake, making us now have to hunt for gear with fury generators on top of all other vital gear check mods is the LAST thing the game needs! You end up with pathetic powerless dolls that are essentially empty suits: can't do squat without all their perfect gear. Wow, that's epic!


Did you?? Barbs, and really all melee classes, were USELESS without the proper gear. You weren't perma WWing unless you had mana leech and enough dmg to sustain it. Melee classes absolutely required proper gear to be anywhere near enjoyable.

I'm saying it again, someone tell me how to generate fury to keep using just WW to fight without ANY effective in fight fury generator?! Please try it now without Into the Fray and let me know how it goes. And yes I'm using a mighty weapon and weapons master passive, in the face of the continuous high cost of WW (and it's relatively low damage) the fury will drain like water through a sieve without that skill. Where's the replacement options? Anyone?


So because you can't think for yourself and come up with creative solutions, then the answer must be that the devs are wrong, and not that you are just lazy and used to the massive OPness of Barbs?

Like I said, there's videos of people doing this already. And what exactly is the problem with using a fury generator? There's a reason those skills were put in place you know.
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The Single Out passive seems useless. Probably never going to use it. The changes to Archery make me a little sad too.

The changes to Brooding seem nice as does the buff to Cull The Weak. LOVE the buff to Multishot. That's once of my favorite abilities and it gets no love. Some nice little tweaks to Fan of Knives but I wonder if it will be enough. It has always struck me as one of those abilities that fits the class really well in a stylistic sense, but isn't really utilitarian at all.

Interesting changes to Spike Trap. The 3 explosions are built in now. That's kind of cool, but working around a new arming time could be tricky. We'll have to see about that one.

I'm too lazy to read them all, but I'm assuming OP is talking about the changes to Shadow Power in regards to DH's being "goodbye lmao"? I don't see why the sky is falling just yet tbh.
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@Jt3z
Trust me ive tested it. .


No, you didn't. Not even DEVs have done it, since even the Alfa builds are changing quite a lot.

Barbars as of now are ridiculously OP being any other class. Their speed, damage, sustain, immunity to CC and defenses are bar to none and a single build can stack all of that, which is simply way 2 good.

Not only that, but the whole environment of D3 will change with RoS, thus the current status quo of what works and what does not currently has almost zero value in that new environment.

Not only that, but I also believe it's on DEVs sight to bring people down some MPs, since they seem to not be willing to introduce new MPs forward above 10, and might want for people to take a bit longer to reach the end MPs like 9/10
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Interesting you have no WOTB and use Overpower, cool downs a potential snag though. How do you deal with elite affix issues like freezing? I'm also curious how with that DMG per sec you managed to finish inferno? Also though, you've got a sword and board barb, I've said already I can't take that, two hander or DW...is Blizz forcing us to use shield and go tank? Sorry but I just don't see how that build works through much, how long to kill elites in MP5 inferno for instance?
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