Diablo® III

Will the Real Death Penalty Please Stand Up?

Actually, I forgot I had this idea a few days back. I'll mention it here:

In Normal mode, my idea is that if you die, you lose a level, but not paragon level.

So let's say you're level 14 and you die, you'll revive your character just as you already do but you'll start at 13.

If you're level 60 paragon 20, you'll revive at level 59 paragon 20.

The reason this might work is because you temporarily lose all access to your level 60 and above items, but within an hour or so you can work back to level 60.

The beauty of it is that the penalty is relatively severe, but comparatively you're not losing a lot of time to the player. For example, some people might complain that they don't have enough time to gain a whole other level, but my argument in reply is that if you're level 60 paragon 15 (or whatever), you're already clearly playing the game and can easily get to 60 again.

You don't lose gear, you don't even lose nephalem valor. You only lose a level, which temporarily allows the player to not use level 60 gear.

I can understand a lot of players think that's really harsh, but coming from a HC background I have to say; I don't have a lot of sympathy for you, haha. Anyway though, I'm not trying to be mean, I just think that might be a good alternative. It's harsh enough to discourage dying and to allow more meaningful gameplay, but not so harsh as to significantly set the player back.

I know you're going to flame, so get on with it...
Reply Quote
Posts: 16,765
Death penalty is a bad. Remember the last time they upped the repair cost? Yeah, that's what I thought. It was a horrible experiment and it should stay away.

Now, if you want to talk about a sane punishment for death, look no further than the Treasure Goblin. If you die chasing it, chances are, he will escape and you will miss out on loots.

Take a look at the Crumbling Vault event. Every time you die during that event, your chances of completing it are drastically reduced. (Well, the event is somewhat broken since failing it and killing everything can be more rewarding)

Take a look at the Jar of Soul event. If you die during that event, you will score pretty badly (you will kill much fewer skeletons and you will be rewarded less from their drop).

Take a look at boss fight. If you and your entire team die, you will have to start all over again.

Those examples didn't increase your repair bill. They cost you time and potential loots & XP.
Edited by DoomBringer#1994 on 11/1/2013 11:29 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
10/26/2013 03:32 AMPosted by Magna
All I'd want is a middleground. Sufficient incentive to stay alive with much more tenacity than current softcore, without the sheer deletion in hardcore.

It's already present. Die often and you won't gain XP as fast and won't find as much loot.

And won't be liked in public games. And your friend list will be short.

There's absolutely no reason to fix what is not currently broken, especially when it will push more players into the very narrow DPS + high survivability gearing. Options = much better game.
Reply Quote
Posts: 11,977
View profile
IMHO you should not increase the death penalty unless you increase the benefit of doing things that have a greater risk of killing you. I play both HC and SC. And I play them in different ways. In HC I am very careful so as not to lose my character. In SC I am more willing to take on tougher challenges to see if I can beat them even if it means I may die.

If you were to increase the death penalty in SC without giving any additional incentive to try those hard things then you are simply pushing people more into a HC type of mode where they may not try anything that would cause them to lose a level or MF or paragon or whatever else has been proposed as part of the death penalty. And if you are going to push people into that type of mode then why not just play HC?

But SC should not be like HC. SC should not be just about not wanting to die and lose stuff. That is what HC is for. SC should be about taking risks and greater challenges than you would in HC. Now I agree that a risk without penalty of failure is not a risk. But then again you cannot have risk without reward either. Thus with increased risk should come increased reward.
Edited by DuckOfDeath#1577 on 11/1/2013 1:31 PM PDT
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
What I'm trying to understand with this thread is: since when do SOMEONE else's deaths became YOUR problem? It doesn't affect your "economy", it doesn't affect your PvP, it doesn't affect your loot, it doesn't affect your XP.

Where's the problem at? Please explain.

If the only answer to this is "public game leaching" - then it's not enough. Play with your friends or look for better players - I know for fact that it is possible.
Reply Quote
A couple of ideas for death penalties:

1) Taking the Sacred 2 survivability bonus route. The portion I would implement into D3 is the increase due to exploration. For every quest finished an experience bonus is applied until the character dies. Therefore it would take time to build up the bonus to it's maximum and losing it will be costly in terms of lvling. This would also lead to play other than the just the main farming routes. Longer quests could give greater bonuses, complete acts could give an additional bonus .........

2) Again bonus experience but this time the bonus is linked to the number of elites/rares killed. When you die the bonus is reset.

In both cases there would have to be separate bonuses for each MP level and bonus caps should also be linked to MP. Therefore you couldn't 'quickly' build up the bonus on MP0 then play till you die on MP10. By linking bonus experience to each MP level then lvling should be quickest at the MP level you can run without dying. As dying on one MP level will not affect your bonus for the other MP levels there is no discouragement to trying a higher MP level.
Reply Quote
A couple of ideas for death penalties:

1) Taking the Sacred 2 survivability bonus route. The portion I would implement into D3 is the increase due to exploration. For every quest finished an experience bonus is applied until the character dies. Therefore it would take time to build up the bonus to it's maximum and losing it will be costly in terms of lvling. This would also lead to play other than the just the main farming routes. Longer quests could give greater bonuses, complete acts could give an additional bonus .........

2) Again bonus experience but this time the bonus is linked to the number of elites/rares killed. When you die the bonus is reset.

In both cases there would have to be separate bonuses for each MP level and bonus caps should also be linked to MP. Therefore you couldn't 'quickly' build up the bonus on MP0 then play till you die on MP10. By linking bonus experience to each MP level then lvling should be quickest at the MP level you can run without dying. As dying on one MP level will not affect your bonus for the other MP levels there is no discouragement to trying a higher MP level.


+1 , Interesting Ideas one of my favourite suggestions so far.
Reply Quote
Well.. We play this together. You could say blizzard is our gamemaster.
So we tell the gm how we like to play and what we consider fun.
It needs to be uniform if it's going to be a good game that we can discuss and enjoy together. Noone want to break your game, we all want a good game, for everyone.
There's your hippie explanation.

You could go - "Why can't we just click the 'best loot' button if we want? How does that affect you?"
We've been down that road and it's just that even though we're not sitting right next to eachother or sharing instance, we do play in the same game and the rules apply to everyone.

The penalty shouldn't be too harsch, but there should be something more than this. That's what I think anyway.. You think differently, which is fine.
Reply Quote
Well.. We play this together. You could say blizzard is our gamemaster.
So we tell the gm how we like to play and what we consider fun.
It needs to be uniform if it's going to be a good game that we can discuss and enjoy together. Noone want to break your game, we all want a good game, for everyone.
There's your hippie explanation.

You could go - "Why can't we just click the 'best loot' button if we want? How does that affect you?"
We've been down that road and it's just that even though we're not sitting right next to eachother or sharing instance, we do play in the same game and the rules apply to everyone.

The penalty shouldn't be too harsch, but there should be something more than this. That's what I think anyway.. You think differently, which is fine.


Agreed.

After moving to Hardcore, Softcore is very lackluster. I know many other players who feel the same.
Reply Quote
Posts: 1,312
11/01/2013 11:21 AMPosted by eskunu
coming from a HC background I have to say; I don't have a lot of sympathy for you, haha.


You could just shut your mouth and keep playing HC.

"Just sayin'"
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
You could go - "Why can't we just click the 'best loot' button if we want? How does that affect you?"
We've been down that road and it's just that even though we're not sitting right next to eachother or sharing instance, we do play in the same game and the rules apply to everyone.

This is an extremely poor argument. No one is asking for the "best loot" button. If I was to reverse this, I'd say "how about we add 'punish me' button so that you can press it every time you die?"
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
Agreed.

After moving to Hardcore, Softcore is very lackluster. I know many other players who feel the same.

That's fine, so long as you don't try to implement HC style in SC. They're separated for a reason.

Keep playing HC if that's what you like.
Reply Quote
Agreed.

After moving to Hardcore, Softcore is very lackluster. I know many other players who feel the same.

That's fine, so long as you don't try to implement HC style in SC. They're separated for a reason.

Keep playing HC if that's what you like.


No one is asking for implementing HC death penalty into SC. You just used that same logic in your last post. Double standard much?
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
11/01/2013 02:21 PMPosted by Tommerbob
No one is asking for implementing HC death penalty into SC. You just used that same logic in your last post. Double standard much?

I did say "style". But at your request I will clarify the meaning: "don't bring HC GEARING STYLE into SC".

So, no, no double standard here whatsoever.
Reply Quote
11/01/2013 02:41 PMPosted by AOHNH
No one is asking for implementing HC death penalty into SC. You just used that same logic in your last post. Double standard much?

I did say "style". But at your request I will clarify the meaning: "don't bring HC GEARING STYLE into SC".

So, no, no double standard here whatsoever.


I thought this topic was about the death penalty, not gear. I'm confused. :/
Reply Quote
You could go - "Why can't we just click the 'best loot' button if we want? How does that affect you?"
We've been down that road and it's just that even though we're not sitting right next to eachother or sharing instance, we do play in the same game and the rules apply to everyone.

This is an extremely poor argument. No one is asking for the "best loot" button. If I was to reverse this, I'd say "how about we add 'punish me' button so that you can press it every time you die?"

It was just an example of a similar reason.
You lay out a very poor argument yourself.. The death penalty is not there to actually punish you, it is there to make the game more exciting.

Agreed.

After moving to Hardcore, Softcore is very lackluster. I know many other players who feel the same.

That's fine, so long as you don't try to implement HC style in SC. They're separated for a reason.

Keep playing HC if that's what you like.

You have a very defensive and binary position on this.
We're not looking for torment here, that's what HC is for.
We just want a better incentive to have a good defense.

As it stands now, equipping a shield means that you are hampering your partys overall dps, nevermind if you do well enough, you could still do better if you dualwielded or twohanded.
That means that players rather like other players to stack up on offense to speed up the progression, especially since there is no tangible penalty for death.
It's not that everyone should start turtling up all of the sudden, but that gearing defensively would be looked upon as something reasonable to do.
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
11/01/2013 02:24 PMPosted by Griever
We should lose 1 or all Nephalem Valor stacks on death. Would reward well balanced gearing and skillfull play without being overly punishing for the lower denominators.

Someone already mentioned that this will cause game resets on death.

And I have no idea how you're going to do ubers like this. Die - lose a stack - can't get that ingredient since it requires 5 stacks - everyone has to go out. Horrible idea.

But here's good news - we don't have to change anything if you want to play this way. Simply change your skills on death - and you got what you wanted. Problem solved.
Reply Quote
I believe the solution to the 'Death Penalty' discussion is not merely a punishment on death, but more of a 'Survival Incentive'.


/care bear mode [enabled]
Reply Quote
Posts: 5,051
11/01/2013 02:44 PMPosted by Tommerbob
I thought this topic was about the death penalty, not gear. I'm confused. :/

Ok, I'll fill in the missing links.

Harsher death penalty = players will try to avoid it more = stack more AR/vit/armor = HC style gearing.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]