Diablo® III

No religious symbols??

So I hear that Blizzard chose to remove all the real-Life religious symbols from D3. Besides from being a lame and cheap choice, the intro for the demonhunter character clearly shows gravestones with christian crosses. And you can spot similar crosses throughout the game.

Was it the pentagrams that gave the devs the chill??
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Possibly some people who follow Wiccan religion took it to offence as the symbol doesn't mean evil to some folks.
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I really like that they removed all the symbols from the game. "Crosses" are pretty generic for graves and even though they have Christian origin, they don't evoke as much of a necessarily Christian thought as, say, the Monastery with the crosses everywhere in D2 or the creepy burning upside crosses in Diablo 1.

All in all, I'm glad they took it out. It felt cheesy and misplaced. It's Sanctuary. It's an completely different world. It's not Europe with a trip to find the jinn tomb in Saudi Arabia. The Diablo universe is its own. It certainly draws from real world influence, but to have such direct symbols could not only be alienating, but takes away from the creativity of the world designers.

I am glad to see no "real world" religious symbolism in the game. I'd be really interested to hear someone's argument from the other side... why is removing real life religious symbolism "lame and cheap"? Should Starcraft have NASA logos?
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Part of the idea is that the demons have been quiet, for lack of a better word, for the past 20 years. They haven't been overtly announcing their presence. Moreover you don't need special rituals to bring demons over since the worldstone shattered, they don't need to possess anybody, they can just come over, no strings attached, so there wont be any remnants of demon summoning rituals around.
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And you wonder why diablo 3 is not scary... Demons without satanic symbols are not going to attach us to that world. These type of games are suppose to show us symbols that should be avoided at all cost. This is just like how the lame overpower nephilim mary sue characters will never make us care about the toons.
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Diablo does proclaim "I am legion", which is a almost exact quote from the Bible. Why have such a line when you've also stated that D3 will be free from real-Life religious symbols?

Sure, if you want Diabloverse to stand on its own it's a sensible choice to eliminate them, and also you don't risking offending religious communities (Wiccans). But then, why keep Heaven and Hell, demons and angels, with name-ends like "-el"?
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What they really meant was "We will change the symbol for the Zakarum Church." And they did.

However, I think that they really doubled-down on the religious stuff. Check out Jedi's posts a little ways down this topic. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/8569598225
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10/21/2013 01:25 PMPosted by Solidpontus
So I hear that Blizzard chose to remove all the real-Life religious symbols from D3.


It's pointless since they mean something else here since this is a game.
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Diablo does proclaim "I am legion", which is a almost exact quote from the Bible. Why have such a line when you've also stated that D3 will be free from real-Life religious symbols?

Sure, if you want Diabloverse to stand on its own it's a sensible choice to eliminate them, and also you don't risking offending religious communities (Wiccans). But then, why keep Heaven and Hell, demons and angels, with name-ends like "-el"?


Because the people who make this game may not even know some things they put in are from the bibble or any other books. Personally, you just thought me that. There's some symbol that do not make people think of religion at first glance, like crosses for grave. Also, you can't ever say that Diablo is free of religious sign... the name of the game itself is religious.

Diable means "Lord of Hell" in french, Baal and Mephisto are also inconical evil characters as much as Lilith and some others. The game is a pure mix of some religions. But of course there's a strong christian mark as it was made in the US... that's what they know, that's what inspired them. Just this "heavens and hell". this is purely religious.

Let just say that, for a moment, christinaity (and every single other religion that have the same root / logic with hell heaven god devil good bad and so on) did not have something like this. That, let say, we would still be in a polytheist religion like the old egyptian one or the grec's one. Well,
1- Diablo would have probably never existed as just the idea of hell and most certainly, heaven would have been totally obscure and unknown to us. We wouldn't even have words to describe these things. (except probly for hell)
2- All this concept of corruption would also be totally obscure as this is a new concept. Before you coudln't be "corrupted" as there was many gods and you would follow one / many of them. Some were less popular but that's it. The concept of corruption by devil is "new".

And there's not just christians influence. Just look at how many undeads there is. This was imported from somewhere in south america few centuries ago (if I'm right... I can be wrong ofc).

Diablo is a big melting pop of many beliefs from various cultures. There's a significant influence from christianity, of course... as I said... just look at the plot "Lords of hell want to reign over Heaven by corrupting humanity...." this sounds totally christian I'm sorry (as I said, include any other religion with the same root)

So I do not get why they want to remove some symbole. What makes Diablo so freaking cool (lore / universe wise) is this mix of everything in my opinion.

Sorry for all the grammar mistakes, english isn't my first language and I just woke up.
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Check again.

There's a Bob's Big Boy statue in the distance in the second cinematic.
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They should bring back the pentagrams. Demons without demonic symbols are just alien monsters.
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10/22/2013 12:19 PMPosted by AMHwargasm
Possibly some people who follow Wiccan religion took it to offence as the symbol doesn't mean evil to some folks.


The pentagram actually symbolizes life. It's a very, very old symbol (tracing back to at least the Babylonians) that Wiccans adopted relatively recently.

What represents evil is the inverted pentagram, which, of course, means anti-life, or life-negating. Again, this also old enough to practically pre-date datekeeping itself, so only the most stupid Wiccan would feel that putting inverted pentagrams in a game was "stealing their symbol."

As for the exclusion of these symbols by Blizzard...

Study art long enough and you'll find it's ALWAYS rooted in real-life. There never was such a thing as an impactful work of art that was not reality in disguise. You really think the Empire in Star Wars spoke in British accents by accident? Or that Darth Vader had a stahlhelm-esque German helmet due to design oversight? That Jedi, the Force, and the lightsaber weren't analogs for samurai, the Tao, and katanas?

In my opinion, to remove the Judeo-Christian elements from Diablo (wow, I got a chuckle from just typing that), is to take the spine out of their own story. Come on, Diablo is Spanish for Devil. Maybe the next game will be called Dabel 4. We are never going to fear whatever arbitrary symbol your design team comes up with. These symbols have been around for MILLENIA for a REASON. Many cultures come up with the same design to represent the same thing, even before they came in contact with each other. These aren't random drawings. They mean something to the human psyche. I've said this before, I'll say it again: Remove the Judeo-Christian elements from Diablo and the game would evaporate into thin air.
Edited by Varin#1482 on 12/5/2013 5:27 PM PST
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Still from a story perspective crosses don't make much sense in the world of Sanctuary since they never had an important religious figure die/interact with them, in order for them to become holy. The only reason the cross is viewed as a holy symbol to real life Christians is because they believed Jesus died on it, sacrificing himself to redeem man. So without that it does seem odd that the Zakarum church would use it as a holy symbol as well.
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Don't the Demon Hunters also wear Crosses around their necks? In the art work it looks like they wear a cross of some sort. Aside from the Crusader who also has a Cross look alike symbol. I always thought the Demon Hunter and Crusader were inspired from Christianity. In D2, the Assassins were I believe inspired from Middle Eastern Hashashashins, Amazons from Amazonian Pagan people and Druid from Native American shaman religion, monk from Buddhism.
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01/07/2014 07:20 PMPosted by Ex3beatnik
Don't the Demon Hunters also wear Crosses around their necks? In the art work it looks like they wear a cross of some sort. Aside from the Crusader who also has a Cross look alike symbol. I always thought the Demon Hunter and Crusader were inspired from Christianity. In D2, the Assassins were I believe inspired from Middle Eastern Hashashashins, Amazons from Amazonian Pagan people and Druid from Native American shaman religion, monk from Buddhism.


Interestingly, Amazons were in Greek mythology, yet the D2 Amazon comes across as being more Norse. The Druid corresponds to the pre-Christian Celtic religion of the Britain. The D3 Monk is supposed to be Eurasian, with both Eastern and Western religious elements (with the Eastern being more dominant). The upcoming Crusader is definitely Christian-based.
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10/22/2013 12:19 PMPosted by AMHwargasm
Possibly some people who follow Wiccan religion took it to offence as the symbol doesn't mean evil to some folks.

Mayhaps you are thinking of Pentacles? Pagans and Wiccan's should know the difference between Pentacle (which they wear on their person somewhere) and a pentagram And furthermore should know that people used the symbol for bad stuff. I suggest getting used to the fact that it will continue to be used for evil.

Bollocks. There is a pentagram on my banner that I worked hard to get so they better not remove it from the game because I will get angry. Something i usually refrain from doing.

They need to stop catering to the non religious zealots that make it their lifes work to be bigots and ignorant to the rest of us. I am sick of it. Blizz don't you DARE cater to those jerks. They need to grow up put on their big kid panties and get the heck over it.
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12/11/2013 12:19 PMPosted by Gorgrum
Still from a story perspective crosses don't make much sense in the world of Sanctuary since they never had an important religious figure die/interact with them, in order for them to become holy. The only reason the cross is viewed as a holy symbol to real life Christians is because they believed Jesus died on it, sacrificing himself to redeem man. So without that it does seem odd that the Zakarum church would use it as a holy symbol as well.


What people fail to realize is Crosses have been used much longer than Christianity has even been in existence.
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12/05/2013 01:20 PMPosted by Varin
10/22/2013 12:19 PMPosted by AMHwargasm
Possibly some people who follow Wiccan religion took it to offence as the symbol doesn't mean evil to some folks.


The pentagram actually symbolizes life. It's a very, very old symbol (tracing back to at least the Babylonians) that Wiccans adopted relatively recently.

What represents evil is the inverted pentagram, which, of course, means anti-life, or life-negating. Again, this also old enough to practically pre-date datekeeping itself, so only the most stupid Wiccan would feel that putting inverted pentagrams in a game was "stealing their symbol."

As for the exclusion of these symbols by Blizzard...

Study art long enough and you'll find it's ALWAYS rooted in real-life. There never was such a thing as an impactful work of art that was not reality in disguise. You really think the Empire in Star Wars spoke in British accents by accident? Or that Darth Vader had a stahlhelm-esque German helmet due to design oversight? That Jedi, the Force, and the lightsaber weren't analogs for samurai, the Tao, and katanas?

In my opinion, to remove the Judeo-Christian elements from Diablo (wow, I got a chuckle from just typing that), is to take the spine out of their own story. Come on, Diablo is Spanish for Devil. Maybe the next game will be called Dabel 4. We are never going to fear whatever arbitrary symbol your design team comes up with. These symbols have been around for MILLENIA for a REASON. Many cultures come up with the same design to represent the same thing, even before they came in contact with each other. These aren't random drawings. They mean something to the human psyche. I've said this before, I'll say it again: Remove the Judeo-Christian elements from Diablo and the game would evaporate into thin air.


I concur with all of this.
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seriously, people:

Even though the game is based on "christianity" because of demons and angels, it has NOTHING to do with it, lorewise. The idea of good fighting evil forever is much closer to asian religions (ying yang) than to christianity, where evil is supposed to be vanquished forever and is only there because god wants it to be there to be "fair", until he decides evil loses and destroys it (afaik about bible lore).

But yeah, removing some simbles and adding some retarded !@#$ made the game less gothic, you don't get too attached to it anymore. MAYBE THE SIMBLES ACTUALLY HAD DEMONIC INFLUENCE ON PEOPLE, THAT'S WHY THEY LIKED THE OLDER GAMES BETTER. !!!11!!!1!

but seriously. Chrono Trigger has more bible references than Diablo.
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