Diablo® III

Things Diablo 3 Can Learn From: *Borderlands 2*!

Posts: 8,651
BTW, I really liked "Show Don't Tell" part of the OP as well. I immediately thought of the young town captain that you're introduced to in the beginning of the game. If you notice, towards the end of Act I you'll no longer see him in town. What happened to him? Well, you can walk down the Old Tristram rode and find his corpse. :_(

Nothing is mentioned about him. He's just another decent chap that fell victim to these dark times.


Yes. Boom. That is wonderful SDT storytelling.

But it doesn't always have to be dialogue free. It's more about the story unfolding via experiences than via exposition.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
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I don't agree with the OP. I think D3 was fun and i enjoyed it. I also liked Borderlands 2, but they're separate games as far as gameplay.

Other than that, i loved Hellgate. I just wished Flagship would have stuck with it and continued to develop it and fix the issues (as there were many). Even more so, i'd love to see Blizz buy out the rights on it and rework the game and universe to it. BAH! Now i wanna go reinstall and play it. For the living!
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Wow. As an old D2 player I got one thing to add.
The perfect side OP enemy. Bring back ANCIENT KAA THE SOULLESS!!!!!!!!!!!
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I must say I'm rather sad this got redirected. I don't think that this was OT at all - discussing the flaws of Diablo 3 in a constructive manner using another game as a reference point belongs on general...not relegated to GGH to die :|.

Mods?
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I agree, it shouldn't have been redirected; but be of good cheer, this thread is still on the front page. :)
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I agree with OP. I loved Borderlands 2's story. Handsome Jack was such a great enemy - possibly my all-time favorite villian.

Diablo 3 was ... eh.
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Send your resume to Blizzard, I hope they hire you :)
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I must say I'm rather sad this got redirected. I don't think that this was OT at all - discussing the flaws of Diablo 3 in a constructive manner using another game as a reference point belongs on general...not relegated to GGH to die :|.

Mods?

Its probably because you put borderlands 2 in the title. Anyways good read, i fully agree d3's characters were very bland and not memorable.

11/04/2013 06:43 AMPosted by Yuujin
the game having to replay the entire campaign two or three times upon reaching max level to overpower your weapons is ridiculous.

After reading 4 pages of replies i still find this to be extremely lolworthy, it sounds just like d3... yet he's managed to trick himself into believing BL2 having a similarity is ridiculous in practice.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 11/7/2013 5:08 AM PST
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1. Good idea here is what I would do to make you happy. Take the main character's story and strip it entirely. Where everyone in town would see him as a nobody and would remain that way for the entire game. Even after kill Malthael you would still be a nobody. The townsfolk would thank Tyrael, your follower, Leah, and all others that would temporarily follow you. They would not see you as being able to tie your shoes without someone doing it for you.

2. Also the bosses would not say a word they would appear like they are mute where they cannot speak. Or at the very least they would see you as so beneath them they would never utter world. Kind of like WoW's bosses that just sit there waiting for you to pond on them until they stop moving.

3. Next remove all of the lore in the game. Where if you want to learn about the game go buy the book. I would make a lot of books around 20, each being around 10 to 30 bucks each.

4. Quest: you would just run into them instead of being handed a quest to do. Or at most, your follower would be continually telling you what to do like you are a dumb ox.

5. Cain's death, here is what I would do. Make it where the way that Cain dies is that the whole world of sanctuary is destroyed and instantly recreated by maybe a hidden worldstone that can be used to reboot the world. Making him like a Highlander where it would take a lot to finally kill him because according to you he was the greatest horadrim to ever have lived. He had all of the powers of all of the other horadrim before him, right? Where horadrims are immortals passing on their power and skills to the next one in line before they finally croak.

6. hmm, trying to save the world is not a good enough reason to do the quest.

7. Oh and one more thing remove all of the cinematics because they are not needed.

Back to reality

Now look Diablo has never been about being a story that is a big mystery you are not suppose to understand.

Come on each Diablo game has led players by the nose the whole time. Their quest or so obvious it is amazing. If you did not figure out that the Stones in Stoney Field along with the Tree of Inifuss were gonna be important in helping you rescue Cain then I would have to question were you drunk when you went through the first play through. Or maybe you were Ma, what is this all about.

The same is true for the first game if you bothered to put some effort into figuring it out.

The only real difference in this game it is more obvious than the other two titles.

So Cain's death has no meaning, like that last attack that killed him is nothing since we can survive it.

Hmm, Cain is an old man near the end of his life. His book of Cain is a goodbye letter to Leah. Players of D2 for years knew he would be bite the bullet in this game. Also Cain was just an archivist and a lore master not some powerful horadrim mage that has vast powers. He was not in the best of health, he survive the near miss of a fallen angel. Was chased by the SK's minions and was in constant pain while being held by Maghda's servants. Followed by the final attack that was no doubt designed to kill a horadrim. Why else would Leah react the way that she did.

Also did you bother to notice that Leah from day one was very apathetic. Telling her uncle things like.

Not more of your stories, I do not think you should be reading more into the text than what is there.

It is Cain's death along with Tyrael showing Leah what he sacrificed to try to stop Diablo's plan to break her apathy. What else in the whole world would've broken her apathy other than that?

He is given a movie version of a Viking's send off.
Edited by ShadowAegis#1537 on 11/8/2013 4:40 AM PST
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Borderlands 2 is entertaining, but by no way is its story "great": it's pretty much by the numbers, and Handsome Jack is about as intimidating as a CoD fanboy on Ventrilo.

The supporting characters are needlessly verbose and their dialogue is usually just a pretext for cheap jokes; they can be amusing at first, but they get old fast. It seems Gearbox's idea of comedy is to just stretch the jokes out for as long as they can.

The BL1 crew is simply pathetic; they're bland, useless and their presence feels forced. I actually liked the new playable characters; they all had interesting backstory and personality. I wish Gearbox had given them a talking role and character development instead just focusing on the nerfed and obsolete BL1 crew as well as freaking Claptrap.
Edited by JohnnyZeWolf#1953 on 11/12/2013 5:00 PM PST
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11/12/2013 04:43 PMPosted by JohnnyZeWolf
The supporting characters are needlessly verbose and their dialogue is usually just a pretext for cheap jokes; they can be amusing at first, but they get old fast. It seems Gearbox's idea of comedy is to just stretch the jokes out for as long as they can.


huh...kinda like Starcraft 2

ba-du cheeeeeeeeeeee
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Posts: 8,651
Borderlands 2 is entertaining, but by no way is its story "great": it's pretty much by the numbers, and Handsome Jack is about as intimidating as a CoD fanboy on Ventrilo.

The supporting characters are needlessly verbose and their dialogue is usually just a pretext for cheap jokes; they can be amusing at first, but they get old fast. It seems Gearbox's idea of comedy is to just stretch the jokes out for as long as they can.

The BL1 crew is simply pathetic; they're bland, useless and their presence feels forced. I actually liked the new playable characters; they all had interesting backstory and personality. I wish Gearbox had given them a talking role and character development instead just focusing on the nerfed and obsolete BL1 crew as well as freaking Claptrap.


I don't know. BL1 characters sucked. BL2s characters were to me rather smart since when you first meet them they seemed to be one note jokes...but if you did a few sidequests or got further in the game, they were actually revealed to be rather layered.

For example (Spoiler Alert) one of the 'jokier' characters is a little technomaniac girl you meet about a third of the way through the game. At first she just seems to be your standard unhinged child character that is funny because she cracks pop culture jokes and acts mature.

Then you do her sidequest chain which is also silly at first - stealing stuff, retrieving her toys and finally abducting a 'guest' for her tea party.

And suddenly things go *pitch* black as you realize what is actually going on. The 'guest' is actually the guy who murdered her parents and the tea party is an elaborate Saw style revenge.

Amazing.
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The one huge problem with D3 story is it doesn't push and confront the audience with issues, either directly or indirectly.

Directly is like the androgynous choice for Diablo. The critic was about the choice, it didn't confront the audience with the issue is androgyny right or wrong? The story doesn't push or confront the players.

Indirectly is like the choice made for the dialogue of Tina Tina, where GBx gets publically accused of being racist. It pushes and confronts not only the players, but also the greater public.

In my view it seems Blizz may not be able to create a good story even if it follows the OP suggestions because those in the Blizz's legal department as well as those in Marketing are going to go over the script with a fine tooth brush and floss over anything that appears and even hints at being politically incorrect.
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Nice write up. The easy ones are making Cain's death meaningful and if you're going to kill a character that everyone loves, do it through an enemy that everyone should actually feel something about, like Diablo himself or Adria would have been a great choice even.

Diablo series and gaming in general really lacks villains that people "love to hate" like the chief bad guy in Die Hard, so satisfying when the hero finally takes them out. Jack killing Bloodwing is a great example of this.

Covetous Chen is the only good piece of writing in D3 and his role should be greatly expanded. The thief has a few good lines I guess.

Just because the game is flat and 2D doesn't mean the writing and characters have to be and the devs really need to stop throwing darts at tvtropes.org and mix and matching what they hit to create D's story.

I was 1000 times more invested in the Dark Wanderer and the tragedy of the former hero being corrupted, Tal Rasha's heroic sacrifice, even the fate of the poor schlep that handed over the soulstone in the end.
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I've got one word and one word only for you.........EXPPPPLLLOSSSSIIOOONNNSSSS???!?!?!!!
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