Diablo® III

Paragon 2.0 - Not account wide

11/05/2013 12:15 PMPosted by Mike
Wierd idea here but if you don't want the paragon points so you can "start fresh" just don't allocate them.
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Unless there is an easy way to make account wide paragon and non account wide paragon, I think most people should see how it works. Let us see how the game comes together how often and how much of an upgrade we are getting without the mystic and even with her. Just release the new patch or work on the one we have now. If the game is fun and has a lot of things to do then that is what matters most. It would also help to see that their are people playing the game and that they are enjoying themselves.
Edited by Skunkleaf#1838 on 11/5/2013 12:57 PM PST
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1. No shared paragon. Real gamers will take the time to level up other characters if they want.

And more importantly:

2. No respec (or maybe only 1 allowed).



It was never about time.
It's about different characters having individual purposes, also known as "builds" or "specialization".
You either have some form of permanent choice and the point of progression with your build is figuring out how to optimize the choices your locked into to achieve your characters goal functionality.

Or you have none and the point is figuring out how to make your class as optimal as possible. One skill loadout for mfing, one for pvp, one for infernal machine. gear may slightly vary, but for the most part it affects every build equally (spare some specific unique affixes).

Locking yourself into a inferior balanced loadout is simply shooting yourself in the foot when you have the option to be anything on the fly with that character. (This can be fun to a degree, but it's not the same as working within limitations imposed on you by the game)

Respecs will always result in fotm over build diverisity.
In most rpg's the class is the chessboard and the specialization is the chess piece.
So build diversity is equal to chessboard x pieces.
In D3 the class is the chessboard and the character is any piece.
So build diversity is equal to the number of classes by itself.

Shared or not shared paragon, the key to individuality and build diversity lies in :



-No respec (make a new char if you want a new type of build! One char for DPS. One char for MF. One char for PvP optimal build)



Up to Blizz to decide whether this can be achieved purely via loot2.0 legendary affixes or not.
Edited by Vencenzo#1510 on 11/5/2013 1:15 PM PST
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'Don't use the system if you don't like it' continues to be a really bad argument.
People shouldn't have to blindfold themselves, set up funny rules of playing without hands, or don't increase their characters power, to circumvent potential issues with a game.

Still, account-wide paragon is vastly preferable to character-specific.
Character-based paragon, especially when it becomes unlimited, directly disincentivize people from playing multiple characters.
Which is quite terrible in a Diablo-game.

Allowing a fresh start with no paragon, through ladder, is a good thing though - it would kinda ruin ladder if it wasn't a totally fresh start.
Paragon should still be shared between the ladder characters you make, and added to your non-ladder paragon pool after the season ends.
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 11/5/2013 1:03 PM PST
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That's what ladder is for.

Keep paragon account wide, if you want out play ladder. Simple as that.
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11/05/2013 12:48 PMPosted by Capo
It's similar to having a full set of gear ready for a new character that you found with your alt.


You are WAY over stating the bonus from paragon levels. Same for OP. You guys are completely over exaggerating the bonus you get from paragon points...especially just 90 points or so...

Starting an Alt and having 90 points isn't even going to be any different than throwing that really cool helm you found on your main on your alt when you hit 60 or 70 or whatever.

If you want a "fresh start" then don't use your paragon points on your alts and don't use gear from your main on your alt.


I admittedly don't know how powerfull the bonuses from shared paragon will be once a new character is able to utilize them, do you? Or are you just speculating like the rest of us?

As for the don't like don't use argument... ignoring bad design is not a good solution. Players are going to utilize every tool available to achieve theirs goals as fast as possible. It's the devs responsibility to create the proper obstacles to make the ride challenging and entertaining.
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'Don't use the system if you don't like it' continues to be a really bad argument.
People shouldn't have to blindfold themselves, set up funny rules of playing without hands, or don't increase their characters power, to circumvent potential issues with a game.

Still, account-wide paragon is vastly preferable to character-specific.
Character-based paragon, especially when it becomes unlimited, directly disincentivize people from playing multiple characters.
Which is quite terrible in a Diablo-game.

Allowing a fresh start with no paragon, through ladder, is a good thing though - it would kinda ruin ladder if it wasn't a totally fresh start.
Paragon should still be shared between the ladder characters you make, and added to your non-ladder paragon pool after the season ends.


^%100 agree
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11/05/2013 12:14 PMPosted by DREADY
you are not forced to use your paragon points i think , so if you want to play like that i don't see why you can't just don't use your points on a fresh character .


Great idea!
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Still, account-wide paragon is vastly preferable to character-specific.
Character-based paragon, especially when it becomes unlimited, directly disincentivize people from playing multiple characters.
Which is quite terrible in a Diablo-game.


There is no way it would be unlimited if it was character based. There would be cap.

Actually character-based paragon it encourages people to play more chars. With no respec you would have multiple builds (like in D2). One char for DPS, one char for MF, one char for PvP.

Also, loot 2.0 and Mystic changes will hopefully solve the "I need to MF all the time" problem. I dont expect upgrades to be raining from the sky, but if chars can find upgrades at a decent pace (lets say every 10 paragon levels at least 1 upgrade is found), we wont be forced to play that one efficient main character the entire time.

With shared paragon and insta-respec, we would be put into the FOTM (flavor of the month) scenario where everyone will be using the same build with the same stats in the same place.
Edited by Monty11#1875 on 11/5/2013 1:20 PM PST
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no way it should have been account wide to begin with anyway, stop giving out horrible ideas
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Posted by DREADY
you are not forced to use your paragon points i think , so if you want to play like that i don't see why you can't just don't use your points on a fresh character .


False

When I hit 60/70 with that new char. His exp will show the main paragon pool. Not his own with his own level ups.

Now its..."oh great, I hit 70. Now hes in the same boat as the rest of my chars where it is 3 billion exp to level 204."
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Paragon should DEFIANTLY be account wide. I hate the feeling of playing one of my other characters and knowing that I could be getting better drops / farming faster on my higher Plvl one. I also hate the feeling of playing my main at max level and knowing I'm not benefiting my other characters.

Nothing needs to be changed about what's been proposed. If you're that concerned your brand new character won't feel 'fresh', then don't use the points until your max level. OR, play ladder / season, since you'll start at 0 every time. Please, don't change anything Blizzard.
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I heartily disagree with the OP. i have a P100 and a P96, and leveling up the second one
- was a stupid grind
- felt subjectively like i was missing out on drops
- felt like I played a gimped character
while playing the first one felt like there being no progress whatsoever.

Account-wide paragon is great. Respeccing is also great. And completely optional. If you want to play "purist mode" - don't use these options. But don't try to screw over the rest of us, please.
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11/05/2013 08:17 AMPosted by Monty11
No respec (make a new char if you want a new type of build! One char for DPS. One char for MF. One char for PvP optimal build)


This is really retarded what the hell are you thinking? This is one of great things to be able to change your build as you see fit. What if you wanna make one simple change one ability are you gonna disregard all of your effort that you had with char and start again from beginning? Hell no
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That's what ladder is for.

Keep paragon account wide, if you want out play ladder. Simple as that.


Ok for the first ladder character this applies.

Now I hit paragon 83 on my ladder Crusader and I want to start a Wiz.
When my wizzy hits 60/70 he is automatically now level 83. My crusader now also gets more powerful playing my wiz.

Again, no individuality between characters. Its too much of a free handout. My wizard gets free damage and mf and crit and whatever else and he just jumps up the ladder (dps based/exp based..obviously how the ladder works will play an effect on this argument).

All my chars become the same, Grinding the same exp pool.
A new char should be a new exp pool. simple as that.
Level cap = goal. No level cap = no goal. Hitting that cap is a sense of accomplishment. It is one of the best feelings in a video game (first time I achieved that feeling was Cloud hitting level 99 in FF7).
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11/05/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Bleu
Paragon should DEFIANTLY be account wide. I hate the feeling of playing one of my other characters and knowing that I could be getting better drops / farming faster on my higher Plvl one. I also hate the feeling of playing my main at max level and knowing I'm not benefiting my other characters.

^this

11/05/2013 01:26 PMPosted by Bleu
Nothing needs to be changed about what's been proposed. If you're that concerned your brand new character won't feel 'fresh', then don't use the points until your max level. OR, play ladder / season, since you'll start at 0 every time. Please, don't change anything Blizzard.

The only thing that could be changed is allow paragon points to go into any stat, but those stats have diminishing returns. So you should be able to put 800 points into whatever, just not going to yeild much past the first 100 or so.
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"Free handout". It's a game. It's supposed to be fun, not a grind.
Overall progress is great. Just look at it in a global way. You are not leveling your characters, you are leveling your account :p.

Also: yes, I played D2, and had 7 different Paladins to try out stuff. But back then, hitting 80 and roflstomping Hell was a matter of a day or two. Compare that to a plvl that makes a difference (70+). Ugh. No, thanks.
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I heartily disagree with the OP. i have a P100 and a P96, and leveling up the second one
- was a stupid grind
- felt subjectively like i was missing out on drops
- felt like I played a gimped character
while playing the first one felt like there being no progress whatsoever.

Account-wide paragon is great. Respeccing is also great. And completely optional. If you want to play "purist mode" - don't use these options. But don't try to screw over the rest of us, please.


As I said, I hope that loot 2.0 and Mystic fix that feeling of "missing out on drops." Then paragon levels wont seem so necessary in order to optimize our gameplay. Then they could get rid of the account wide idea and put a level cap on.

The thing about the paragon categories they have set up is that every single stat is good. Weather it be crit, movement speed, main stat or MF...it is something that we all want in every character. This means that there are really no 'mistakes' when you allocate points. It is simply the 'build' you are choosing.

Thus, if you want a new build, make a new char. no respec.
Edited by Monty11#1875 on 11/5/2013 1:36 PM PST
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Some like some don't. The solution is simple.

Keep it for the ones that do.

The ones that don't like it just do not have to allocate the points.

I personally like the idea as I play the off toons not much and they lack a lot. The main reason that I use them is the fact that they cannot play at the same monster power level as my main character. And the main effect of that is is that's where most of my friends are playing.
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Just make it, so we can spend out points in any category and not 1 point in every category every 4 levels.
Let's say I'm a crusader who doesn't use any cooldown based skills, so I don't need cooldown reduction, I gain advantage for blocking, so I won't spend any points for dodge, I don't want pickup radius, so I can decide when to pick health globes up. I obviously need more main stat/vit.
There, 150 out of 200 paragon levels worth nothing. (From paragon 600 to 800)
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