Diablo® III

Current Well Geared & RoS

Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".
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How do monsters scale when a high level character is playing with a low level character? More generally, how are monsters affected when a group is made up of characters of varying levels?
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(*Right now there’s: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V. Currently, Master unlocks at 61 and Torment unlocks at 70, but once unlocked they’re available for all characters on your account.)


Maybe it's just me, but I don't like the idea of ditching the traditional "Normal, Nightmare, Hell" difficulties. It's a very diablo thing, and to see it go would be disheartening. Don't get me wrong though, I like that idea of monsters leveling with you (though someone brought up a good question of what about multiplayer with characters of different levels, or even vastly different levels and how that effects monsters level?). Aside from the increased lack of feeling of power growth (if that makes sense) that comes with monsters that grow with you - you can never out level an area and feel that you've grown since you started which is compounded by not actually gaining anything from levels except a few stats.

But back to the main point, don't do away with the traditional difficulty names! I will miss them. Try to incorporate them into the difficulty naming scheme!
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I'm confused about the description of difficulty setting in RoS.

In the official FAQ of Ros, it states
(http://us.battle.net/d3/en/reaper-of-souls/)
Have any changes been made to the difficulty scaling or settings in Reaper of Souls?

In Reaper of Souls, the game difficulty settings have been updated to Easy, Normal, Hard, Torment, Demonic and Apocalypse. Similar to the way the tiered settings and Monster Power work in Diablo III, higher difficulty levels present more powerful enemies who will potentially reward players with more powerful loot! Unlike the previous tiered difficulty system, though, players are not required to defeat the game on a lower setting in order to unlock a higher difficulty setting. These settings can be selected at any time, for both Campaign Mode and Adventure Mode, making it more convenient than ever to find the level of challenge that’s right for you!


While in the official blog, it shows there are Five different difficulties in Adventure Mode: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master and Torment in adventure mode.

Now, in the above blue post, it says there will be Nine difficulties in Adventure Mode: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V.

Why they are so inconsistent ?

More or less. The reward structure for the new difficulty settings is being reevaluated, as well, so it's not exactly like Monster Power, but the concept is similar.

Lots of the finer tuning details and mechanics are still TBD at the moment, though, so we can't answer a ton of questions right now (most likely just high-level, big picture kind of stuff). Even so, definitely keep asking about things you want to know and we'll work to get answers. We'll either provide them here or, since we're working on a "First Look" article for the new difficulty system, make sure to address everything* there.
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Really loving these changes.

Definitely makes sense to use new names because difficulty != Normal/Nightmare we had before. That was about level progression. This is more equivalent to the monster power system which right now is a boring 1-10. I much prefer named difficulties.
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(*Right now there’s: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V. Currently, Master unlocks at 61 and Torment unlocks at 70, but once unlocked they’re available for all characters on your account.)


I planned on buying the expac, but are you saying that we are unable to play master if we don't get RoS?

Or am I mistakenly thinking in that the level cap is not increasing without RoS?
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11/13/2013 05:33 AMPosted by Pin
How do monsters scale when a high level character is playing with a low level character? More generally, how are monsters affected when a group is made up of characters of varying levels?


1) I was thinking about this last night, but I decided that the obvious answer is, it's based on who started the game.

2) I really like the idea of how Adventure Mode unlocks after each act for all heroes (blue mentioned in another thread last night I believe) as well as the leveling up of monsters with your hero. I understand this is a system similar to Elder Scrolls, but honestly, I don't really have any opposition to the change. It's not really something I ever thought was bad. It's not like because the monsters are leveling up, that you aren't... just because their health, damage, and maybe abilities or something are rising shouldn't be a problem because you're doing the same thing but also getting way more skills and runes. And it's only for 1-70 anyway, which is a relatively short section of time you'll be playing that hero (it may take you a week to lvl up but you'll play them for months at lvl 70).

So in other words, if I have this correct, it could work like this:

    (let's assume I'm a brand new player who just bought D3+RoS)
    I make a barb, level him on normal difficulty through act 5. I unlocked adventure mode after completing each act (for all heroes)
    I decide to make a crusader, but I want to try out adventure mode and my favorite act was 5, so I swap it to adventure mode, go into game and use the waypoint to go right to act 5 and pick up some bounties. I'm lvl 1 but it's ok because the monsters are too.


3) If it doesn't unlock for all heroes and each hero is required to complete the game in the campaign, then my crusader couldn't ever start from level 1 in act 5 and that would be a sad day :( cause the entire act is so random and baller. Yes, sprinkled with diamonds and revenants bowing before my awesome Nephalem might. I support unlocking adventure mode for other heroes if you complete the campaign once. BUT the campaign absolutely needs to be completed once by new players' first hero before it unlocks adventure mode for secondary heroes (said the fox).

    Quick reverse example -

    (again I'm a brand new player)
    I make a barb, complete up through act 3
    I start a crusader, if I go to adventure mode, only the waypoints up through act 3 are unlocked. So after leveling up to 10, I swap it back over to campaign mode on nightmare difficulty (cause I want a little more of a challenge). This puts me at act 1 the falling star quest because I haven't completed any campaign yet, even though I'm lvl 10.
    I complete the campaign on my crusader.
    I swap back to my barb, go into adventure mode, and now have access to all acts. But if I go to campaign mode, I'm still right where I left off at the beginning of act 4.


4) The challenge comes in by the ability to raise the difficulty. If you feel even with the monsters leveling up with you, that you're just way too good at this game and you have an insatiable thirst for more xp and phat lootz, plus you already have some gear in the stash you found on your other heroes, then you ramp it up to Inferno. The new difficulties—whatever they're actually called lol—have essentially replaced the Monster Power scale.

11/13/2013 06:08 AMPosted by Khyras
I wholeheartedly disagree to a multi-tiered difficulty system where only difference in difficulty is how hard mobs hit or how hard they are to kill .Once you beat level 1 ( like MP 1) lvl 70 difficulty there is no reason to ever challenge yourself to go higher because it is much quicker to farm paragon levels and gear (not that there is much reason to once you beat the game either) on lower difficulty and there is no difference in content anyway.


5) If I understand correctly, there will be more than just hit points and damage at the higher difficulties. It will also have more mf/gf and maybe monster density or some other features. You won't run out of content because you beat the game at lvl 70. You just turn up the difficulty to one higher, with the goal of finally being able to run the highest difficulty setting as easily if you were running norm (which at that point will just be a joke, you'll look at minions and they'll just explode) - because the highest difficulty setting offers the highest reward.
Edited by Godric#1954 on 11/13/2013 8:58 AM PST
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One of our big goals with Reaper of Souls is to give players more control over their game experience, and that applies to difficulty as well. As part of that goal, we’re removing the tiered difficulty system (the one that requires you to work your way through Normal, Nightmare, Hell, and Inferno) that exists right now. We’re replacing it with something that’s more open, and (more importantly) won’t require you to play through the story multiple times if you don’t want to.

So, the Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno progression path is gone. Instead, starting in the pre-expansion patch, you’ll find that monsters will level up as you do, and they’ll gain additional affixes depending on what level range they’re in. You’ll be able to influence monster damage, health, and rewards by selecting one of nine new difficulty settings* as well, similar to the way Monster Power works currently. The result is that you should have a lot more freedom in customizing your level of challenge without worrying about multiple playthroughs of the story to get there.

This is just a rough overview of how the new difficulties will work in Reaper of Souls. We'll have more details on the new difficulty settings in the future, so be sure to keep an eye out for them! Also, keep in mind that these could all change before we ship.

(*Right now there’s: Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V. Currently, Master unlocks at 61 and Torment unlocks at 70, but once unlocked they’re available for all characters on your account.)


Do you really have to change the names entirely ? If you do that,it would change one of the Diablo traditions.Instead why not use the same system you was doing but keep the names Normal,Nightmare,Hell and Inferno but add some extras to replace the rest. Here is an example.
(Normal,Nightmare,Hell,Inferno,Purgatory,Styx,Hades,Torment) and whatever else you can think of on the same concept. Basically Normal=Normal, Nightmare=Hard, Hell=Expert, Inferno=Master, and so forth.
Edited by Ryak#1393 on 11/13/2013 9:09 AM PST
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Conflicting stuff isn't it? Can the Blues care to explain wtf this is? What exactly is the difficulty setting? Easy, Normal, Hard, Torment, Demonic and Apocalypse or Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment I-V?


We ended up removing Apocalypse right before BlizzCon, but the FAQ had already been approved, localized, and set to publish at that point. We're working to get it updated as we speak. :)

This is why we always say that things are subject to change whenever we post, because they do change -- and often quite quickly at this point!

I might be an anomaly, but I like the MP structure. It lets me gauge where I am in terms of gear and play ability. Could you please do a crude comparison for people like so I know about where to start in the pre-expansion patch and then on into RoS? Thanks for helping.


That's certainly the plan. We'd like to lock down the tuning a bit more before we provide that comparison, though, since things are changing right now on a day-to-day basis. (Like I noted before, we'll have a "First Look" write-up just on difficulty coming your way fairly soon.)
Edited by Lylirra on 11/13/2013 9:43 AM PST
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Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".


The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn't want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole 'nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.
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I like theory crafting which is a constructive type of speculation.

This however can only go 1 direction.

It's like talking about what a cake will taste like when not all the ingredients have been even agreed upon.

Your current stat weightings and complete skill functions will change considerably by the final product. Just imagine your barb feeling and playing a lot different because it will not effectively be doing the dps you suggest.
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Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".


The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn't want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole 'nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.


Yeah this makes a lot of sense I guess. The old tiered system (normal nightmare hell inferno) was essentially based on monster level, not difficulty.

Now that monsters are scaling with the hero's level, these old difficulties are obsolete and will not be conducive to understanding the change. Now instead of the "difficulty" levels being a reflection of the monster's level, they are a reflection of the monster's power - as difficulty should be.

This will make a lot of sense as well with adventure mode being a legitimate way to level up, as well as the scaling set/legendary levels (since all legendaries/set items now are based on either the hero's/monster's level, giving everyone access to all legendaries at all times.)

I don't want to make too many assumptions though about the MF/GF and other loot bonuses etc. to the higher difficulties, as it seems this is still in tuning and not set in stone.
Edited by Godric#1954 on 11/13/2013 10:07 AM PST
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As I said before someplace.

Its going to be a whole new Diablo 3 guys and gals.

I'm excited for some of the changes, and yes, some changes are making me cringe. But I think as a whole we are going in the right direction.

Thanks for the clarification (as much as can be provided at this point) Lylirra.
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Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".


The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn't want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole 'nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.


I understand the nuts and bolts of the systems will be entirely different, but this is still Diablo, right?

It has always been that Nightmare is Hard(er) than Normal and that traditionally you had to be an Expert to succeed in Hell. So i'm really not seeing how the names don't translate regardless of mechanically how they work. In fact keeping the naming structure could be one way to get a nostalgic feel in the new system. One complaint you see across the board here is we don't want easier, we are smart kids and we like the feel of Diablo. I'm pretty sure that the players will understand and adapt to the new difficulties with out any confusion and they will appreciate them with the traditional names.

Besides it is a thousand times cooler to say "I finally got my Crusader to Hell." than "I moved my Crusader up to Expert."
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11/12/2013 07:10 PMPosted by Siskie
Well that information certainly helps. Now it's just a guessing game on what current well-geared players can do with their pre-expansion godly gear. I'm thinking at least Expert will be able to be completely cleared fairly easily with a 300k damage character, perhaps Master as well. I wonder how far into Torment 1 we would be able to get with our current gear.


very doubt it you do know Lifesteals gone right pretty much? they might change how mobs work but wont matter when people cant take a hit.

very doubt you will even solo half way . your gear has not even half stats of new stuff
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It has always been that Nightmare is Hard(er) than Normal and that traditionally you had to be an Expert to succeed in Hell. So i'm really not seeing how the names don't translate regardless of mechanically how they work. In fact keeping the naming structure could be one way to get a nostalgic feel in the new system. One complaint you see across the board here is we don't want easier, we are smart kids and we like the feel of Diablo. I'm pretty sure that the players will understand and adapt to the new difficulties with out any confusion and they will appreciate them with the traditional names.

Besides it is a thousand times cooler to say "I finally got my Crusader to Hell." than "I moved my Crusader up to Expert."


Well they are fundamentally different. The new system is essentially monster power and not monster level. But I do see the potential confusion and the reason they may have changed it from normal nightmare hell inferno demonic apocalypse to the current naming system Lylirra mentioned.

Now if you're lvl 70, you can run the game in "normal" - all the monsters will still be lvl 70. Before if you were end-game and ran normal and in act 1, the monsters would be lvl 1... so calling it "normal" still will throw a lot of people off.

Yes, we (most of us) aren't stupid, but it's definitely a lot easier to just change the names to help illustrate the changes. Not everyone who plays follows the forums or the website.
Edited by Godric#1954 on 11/13/2013 10:16 AM PST
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Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".


The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn't want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole 'nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.


Now that you have removed the old difficulties. Be sure to change the criteria on the achivments. There is alot of them that states Kill X on normal/nightmare/hell or inferno difficulty.
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Why not keep the names "Normal/Nightmare/Hell"?
These are iconic to the series, and you're just getting rid of them for no good reason.

Let me try to anticipate the answer: "Players might get confused".


The main reason is that the tiered Normal > Nightmare > Hell > Inferno system is gone completely; the new system works quite differently and we didn't want the names, which have a history and thus an expected way of working, to make players think the system functions one way (when it in fact functions in a whole 'nother way).

Totally fair feedback, though. Happy to pass it on.


Almost seems Diablo 3 should be renamed as well if we are bringing up the whole history and expectation bit. ;)
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