Diablo® III

Demons Turning To Good?

There are a few examples of Angels becoming corrupted (Izual, Corrupted Angels in Act 4, possibly Malthael (please don't spoil RoS if you know the answer)), but there are yet to be any demons who are purified - for lack of a better word - and become good. Why is this so?

Why is it that angels can be corrupted but demons can't be purified? It would make for an interesting story line if nothing else.
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In other settings, it is called Redeemed.

Also, there are to my limited knowledge no known cases of this occurring in the Diablo series; I could be wrong, however.

The above said, I do hope they consider the option of Redemption in some meaningful way for Leah if she became corrupted after her ordeal of becoming part of Diablo.

This is definitely an area of lore that bears further investigation.

Edit: That is to say, there is more than one term; most DnD themed worlds tend to prefer Redeemed.
Edited by Turgin#1204 on 11/14/2013 12:57 PM PST
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I don't want to go off topic with semantics, but let me say that I think "redeemed" would be the wrong word to use because demons never had redeeming qualities to begin with. They were born bad. Evil is in their nature.

What I'm getting at in this thread though is the idea of a demon forsaking its evil nature somehow and becoming a force for good. I think it makes sense that that could happen and it would be an interesting plot thread.
Edited by Wesker#1530 on 11/14/2013 1:01 PM PST
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It's definitely an interesting topic that I hope the writers explore in the future.

I think it's just inherently less possible for demons to become purified or redeemed or what have you. Demons are all about mindless slaughter and destruction and chaos; in other words, increasing entropy. Angels are all about order and purity; to draw a parallel, keeping entropy from increasing. And as the laws of the universe say, entropy is always increasing.
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Malthael (from what I know) is only misguided not corrupted.

They did mention even if angels become fallen there is still good within them so they are not 100% corrupted and can go back to what they truly are but with demons I see that hard to be done since they are evil from the beginning unless you picked one as newborn and start working on him but even if this have been done he will just go back to what his true nature is.
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I think Lillith is a prime example of a demon taking a step away from her more evil origins. While she didn't become good in any sense, she did become somewhat of a fence-sitter when it came to the Eternal Conflict along with the Angel, Inarius.

As for Angels "turning" evil, well I think there are a couple of distinctions there, but neither are examples of switching allegiances willingly. Some are corrupted against their will (see: Izual and Fallen Angels of Act IV), and some are "righteously evil" without actually being agents of Hell (see: Malthael).

There's actually no notable occurrence of an Angel changing allegiances willingly AFAIK. Keep in mind that Malthael is not allied with demons, rather he opposes them outright and that so happens to includes humans based on their demonic heritage.
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(Insert note about how Demons can destroy the Angel City and the source of their power but we can't do likewise)
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11/14/2013 06:20 PMPosted by Nano
(Insert note about how Demons can destroy the Angel City and the source of their power but we can't do likewise)


Who says we can't do likewise?

Corrupting the Crystal Arch would nullify angelic power and their ability to be born from the Spine of Anu. We don't yet know what lies within the Abyss and acts as the demons "respawn point". All we know is that the Burning Hells were formed from the carcass of Tathamet, but what if something lies within the Black Abyss and acts as the demon equivalent of the Crystal Arch?

TL:DR: The plot of Expac 2. ;)
Edited by DamienJohn#1321 on 11/15/2013 3:26 AM PST
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11/14/2013 02:26 PMPosted by DamienJohn
I think Lillith is a prime example of a demon taking a step away from her more evil origins.


Not really she only followed Inarius because she was using him to get the World Stone for herself.
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11/15/2013 01:57 AMPosted by Utam
I think Lillith is a prime example of a demon taking a step away from her more evil origins.


Not really she only followed Inarius because she was using him to get the World Stone for herself.


That's only what happened later, once she realized the potential of the Nephalem. Initially she was actually just in love.
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As far as I know the only "evil" angels are those who were captured by the forces of hell and deliberately twisted. In act 4 you can sometimes find a dungeon where 4 angels are captured and sinking into a pit of.... something... before emerging as corrupted angels. They were probably infected with pure hell matter or something, whatever twisted the demons to becoming demons.
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In story telling, redemption is usually saved for the hero or someone of importance because it's just built up to be much harder to change from evil to good then it is to be corrupted from good to evil. It's also easier to visualize or relate to the concept of being corrupted against one's will vs the other way around. Redemption just has certain connotations attached to it that corruption doesn't and it gets old very quickly if used to much whereas no one really questions mass corruptions. A type of social expectation?

It would be very interesting to see a demon be redeemed and I think the setting of Pandemonium would be a great place to explore that concept.



Not really she only followed Inarius because she was using him to get the World Stone for herself.


That's only what happened later, once she realized the potential of the Nephalem. Initially she was actually just in love.


I think that's a good example of how she couldn't pull herself away from her origins. She immediately saw her children as a weapon she could use to control all of Creation and she killed anyone that stood in her way.
Edited by Neinball#1259 on 11/15/2013 7:47 PM PST
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I like all the responses so far! I agree that it's much easier for one to become corrupted than turn to good from evil. Acts of corruption are easier and coincide more with our base desires than good acts.

Be that as it may, however, I've been under the impression that angels and demons in Diablo encompass pure traits of either good or evil. Yet, there are a few examples of angels somehow forsaking their inbred goodness while none exists for demons leaving behind their evil natures. Both types of beings are supposed to be bound by fate to their natures, as Ithereal states in Act IV, yet there have been exceptions - and only then in angels.

With all things being equal (which I know is debatable) between heaven and hell besides their embrace of good or evil, respectively, why are there no examples of demons switching sides to heaven, or if not being apart of one side or another, doing good?
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I like all the responses so far! I agree that it's much easier for one to become corrupted than turn to good from evil. Acts of corruption are easier and coincide more with our base desires than good acts.

Be that as it may, however, I've been under the impression that angels and demons in Diablo encompass pure traits of either good or evil. Yet, there are a few examples of angels somehow forsaking their inbred goodness while none exists for demons leaving behind their evil natures. Both types of beings are supposed to be bound by fate to their natures, as Ithereal states in Act IV, yet there have been exceptions - and only then in angels.

With all things being equal (which I know is debatable) between heaven and hell besides their embrace of good or evil, respectively, why are there no examples of demons switching sides to heaven, or if not being apart of one side or another, doing good?

It might have to do with the concepts they represent. Evil is all-consuming, it seeks to multiply. Corruption is a favored method for this, as it gives them more satisfaction than just eliminating all good.

Good on the other hand does not actively seek to redeem those who have fallen. The idea of a second chance is not inherently "good". A "turned" demon could never be fully trusted to behave, because of the lingering nature of evil. Even if you were corrupted involuntarily, you still did evil things, and theres every chance it could happen again.

TL;DR, Demons have every reason to want to corrupt angels, angels have no reason to want to redeem demons.
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Yes, demons can turn good, "redeem".
But the concept is not interesting to figure in a game such as this. Corruption is, because Falling from grace is much more compelling drama than redemption.

But it would be very interesting to see such a thing in Diabloverse somewhere. Perhaps exiled demons seeking Peace on the mortal realm.
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Yes, demons can turn good, "redeem".
But the concept is not interesting to figure in a game such as this. Corruption is, because Falling from grace is much more compelling drama than redemption.

But it would be very interesting to see such a thing in Diabloverse somewhere. Perhaps exiled demons seeking Peace on the mortal realm.


I don't agree. Redemption, if done right, can be compelling. I think especially in this type of universe with big, bad, evil demons, the possibility of one turning would be fascinating.
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Yes, demons can turn good, "redeem".
But the concept is not interesting to figure in a game such as this. Corruption is, because Falling from grace is much more compelling drama than redemption.

But it would be very interesting to see such a thing in Diabloverse somewhere. Perhaps exiled demons seeking Peace on the mortal realm.


I don't agree. Redemption, if done right, can be compelling. I think especially in this type of universe with big, bad, evil demons, the possibility of one turning would be fascinating.


The thing is, corruption can be forced. Redemption, especially legitimate redemption, cannot.
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We already know there was once such a group: the renegades followers of Inarius and Lilith; the angel and demon parents of the original nephalem.

Aside from the obvious couple Inarius and Lilith, Scales of the Serpent showcased one other known example, a nameless demon turning good so to speak. (Chapter 6. Page 83 if you want the main details straight up.) However, even in this particular instance the demon wasn't necessarily "purified" or "redeemed" (maybe forgiven or absolved) - he was still rather the savage one - but both he and his angel partner loved one another. Even long after the Purge the spirit of that particular demon still linger and sought to have his vengeance on Lilith for the death of his angel partner.

It would be interesting to hear more about of these other renegade angel and demon couples (and singles*) who sought to leave behind the Eternal Conflict. (e.g. Bul-Kathos' slain parents, Vasily, Esu)

We do also have *Lycander, who while is bit of a different subject matter and entity verses a demon but nonetheless it be fascinating if such renegade individuals who survived the Purge somehow are still living on Sanctuary in secret and still holding onto their beliefs as they did when they first followed Inarius originally to escape the Eternal Conflict and live in peace.
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To reiterate Keltest's opinions, the polarity and the aspects that the Angels and Demons respectively represent preclude the Angels from actually "purifying" or "redeeming" demonic entities. While Diablo has always been very keen on labeling Diablo and his cohorts as "evil" and Tyrael and the Heavens as "good", what they actually represent is chaos and order.

It is the natural order of things, even scientifically speaking, for order to devolve into chaos. Chaos will not become order unless there is an all-powerful intelligence to direct such chaos to order, and if chaos itself resists order then there is no chaos-to-order transformation.
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@Zanyuki

I have to disagree with your assertion that order requires an "all-powerful intelligence." You just need to look at the natural world to see that this is false (assuming you don't believe in God). The order of the day/night/seasonal cycle of the planet, the food chain in living nature, the ability to mathematically predict occurrences in the natural world, the symmetry of many forms of life, the spherical shape of the planets, the revolving of the planets around the sun - these are all examples of natural order.

Also, saying that the angels and demons in Diablo don't respresent good and evil, respectively, but only order and chaos is simply not true. The archangels are the embodiments of virtues - Justice, Wisdom, and Valor are obvious examples of virtues. Hope and Fate are more neutral. The demon lords represent vices and suffering. Sin, Lies, and Hatred are obvious examples of evil attributes. Pain, Anguish, Terror, and Destruction are things that can cause suffering.

@Eroldren

The demon in your example wanting revenge on Lilith for killing his angelic mate is not necessarily good. The entire example of the renegade angels and demons hiding from the Eternal Conflict is one that is hard to categorize as either good or evil because of the scant amount of information we have about it. All we know is that these renegades wanted nothing more to do with the Eternal Conflict. Beyond that, their motivations are unclear.

Can you explain who Lycander is?

@keltest

A demon becoming redeemed through self-reflection would be interesting, don't you think? I'm not espousing that it must happen through force or pressure from angels.
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