Diablo® III

You know you can still trade non BOA rare loot!

For all of you who are upset, I wanted to let you know that it's only legendary and set items that will be BOA. I have read many other anti BOA threads and my bet is those people are botters, pay2win or looking to make a quick buck. Rare items don't have any build changing affixes and possibly won't be able to roll as high either, but they should be more than enough for all but the highest difficulty anyway. You should be finding several legendary items per run in loot 2.0 and you can always use the mystic to reroll a bad stat. If you want to trade so badly, give your friends whatever well rolled rare items you find and let them find their own legendary loot.

With such high drop rates and the mystic, most of you should be sitting in BIS gear in a month or two anyway then the loot hunt will be over and it will just be playing for experience and leveling to 200+ paragon. Blizz is moving away from pay2win to play2win and if you rather spend hundreds on gear, there's many other game titles that may be more to your liking. You guys had your day, now, it's our turn to be able to have good loot. I cashed out and quit back in August when I refused to spend 500m gold per slot in order to hit 200k unbuffed dps on a boring game that is just a lame dps check anyway. I have about 100m worth of tanky gear that will give me a headstart in loot 2.0 at "normal" difficulty. All my gear is getting replaced so no point keeping anything of value.

Let's say that Blizz listens to a vocal minority who are against BOA and the best loot can be traded. What will happen is the botters will have a field day selling their loot on third party sites and the pay2win will spend hundreds on gear because they are too lazy to find their own. Prices on loot will drop on a daily basis as third party auctions get flooded with godly loot to the point it will all be worthless in a month or two. We will be able to find the same loot for free with a couple months of farming, crafting and enchanting. Pay2win will probably quit when the rest of us catch up to you.
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So.....if loot 2.0 comes out as described, but BoA is not apart of it and someone puts an item on a third party site, where are you limited in finding your own loot? What part of someone putting an item up for trade, in game or out of game, will limit your gameplay if items are dropping as frequently as they are describing loot 2.0. I will clarify that I am not a proponent of the AH, nor do I plan on using a third party site. I believe that the AH crippled this game as soon as it was released.

I am just struggling to see the connection that if someone acquires an item and then trades said great item why that is problematic to my game if I can also find a great item.

If someone can make that connection for me, please do so.

Not a troll post here, just a legitimate request to help me understand why I will need to feel cheated when someone chooses to trade and item, in game or out of game.
Edited by Vourak#1997 on 11/15/2013 11:11 AM PST
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I understand the OP's points, but I would ask this. Why does it matter if we can trade them or not? As long as you're FINDING the items as well, how does it affect you in any way? You get what you want in the long run, and so would we. Items will always be sold in games like this on 3rd party sites. So will currency. Look at WoW, or any other game similar. The bottom line is, you're upset with the current system because you HAVE to buy items to progress which I totally agree is stupid with how random and poor the items currently are. But with Loot 2.0, the drops will drastically improve, you will get the same items you normally would weather they are bound or not, so again, how does it affect you in any way?
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Okay, let me find my post, here you go
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10490859613#1

Look at the picture we got from blizzcon

Now, think about what I have on my characters
1. Legendary/Set = BoA
2. Crafted item = BoA

That boils down to Rings and Amulets being tradeable and these can make a lot of money. Botters will just switch their focus to looting these and not LEGs.
As we know so far the trifecta power stays the same on these

total aps now
= 90% (include all leg) +15%(dual or quiver) = 90-105
*wiz gets another 9% from chantodo's orb
*dh dml goes as high as 20% = 110
total aps RoS
= 80% (include all leg) +15%(dual or quiver) +10% (paragon) =90-105
*don't know the change on chantodo's orb
*dh dml goes as high as 20% = 110
THIS is 40% on item without LEGs and off-hands, aka that datamined cap

chc is the same, but I was expecting a cut on gloves max chc (to 6% down form 10%) so it go down to 40% (datamined cap).

chd we are still missing a lot of details but if it is cut to 250% (datamined cap) from item then
1. weapon gain no chd
2. emerald gain no chd
+50% gloves
+50% rings x2
+100% amulet
= 250%
Just my predication since we already know that gloves and rings can roll up to 50% even in RoS.
...

I don't mind BoA but when blizz cut out the communication on trade you will lose friends to play with and the game becomes like an offline console game where you only play with yourselves or people coming over to your place.
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For all of you who are upset, I wanted to let you know that it's only legendary and set items that will be BOA. I have read many other anti BOA threads and my bet is those people are botters, pay2win or looking to make a quick buck. Rare items don't have any build changing affixes and possibly won't be able to roll as high either, but they should be more than enough for all but the highest difficulty anyway. You should be finding several legendary items per run in loot 2.0 and you can always use the mystic to reroll a bad stat. If you want to trade so badly, give your friends whatever well rolled rare items you find and let them find their own legendary loot.

With such high drop rates and the mystic, most of you should be sitting in BIS gear in a month or two anyway then the loot hunt will be over and it will just be playing for experience and leveling to 200+ paragon. Blizz is moving away from pay2win to play2win and if you rather spend hundreds on gear, there's many other game titles that may be more to your liking. You guys had your day, now, it's our turn to be able to have good loot. I cashed out and quit back in August when I refused to spend 500m gold per slot in order to hit 200k unbuffed dps on a boring game that is just a lame dps check anyway. I have about 100m worth of tanky gear that will give me a headstart in loot 2.0 at "normal" difficulty. All my gear is getting replaced so no point keeping anything of value.

Let's say that Blizz listens to a vocal minority who are against BOA and the best loot can be traded. What will happen is the botters will have a field day selling their loot on third party sites and the pay2win will spend hundreds on gear because they are too lazy to find their own. Prices on loot will drop on a daily basis as third party auctions get flooded with godly loot to the point it will all be worthless in a month or two. We will be able to find the same loot for free with a couple months of farming, crafting and enchanting. Pay2win will probably quit when the rest of us catch up to you.


stopped reading at your assumption those people against boa must be botters.
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Ace,

I was gonna post something, but hell Kirus covers it nicely...

Please rethink what you are talking about...

*smacks face*

Silver
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11/15/2013 11:10 AMPosted by Vourak
So.....if loot 2.0 comes out as described, but BoA is not apart of it and someone puts an item on a third party site, where are you limited in finding your own loot?


It means anyone can cash out, the temptation is there. Instead of playing for fun, it will be playing for money. Also botters will have a field day and this will cause lots of lag as they play 24/7 for loot and flood third party sites.

I am just struggling to see the connection that if someone acquires an item and then trades said great item why that is problematic to my game if I can also find a great item.


You can still trade rares. You get to keep all legendaries you find, the "cost" of not being able to trade should be well worth it if it means botters are kept at bay.

11/15/2013 12:07 PMPosted by HaXiR
I understand the OP's points, but I would ask this. Why does it matter if we can trade them or not? As long as you're FINDING the items as well, how does it affect you in any way? You get what you want in the long run, and so would we. Items will always be sold in games like this on 3rd party sites. So will currency. Look at WoW, or any other game similar. The bottom line is, you're upset with the current system because you HAVE to buy items to progress which I totally agree is stupid with how random and poor the items currently are. But with Loot 2.0, the drops will drastically improve, you will get the same items you normally would weather they are bound or not, so again, how does it affect you in any way?


You can blame botters, cheaters and pay2win for the reason Blizz is forced to make all leg items BOA. Everyone is affected when botters ruin the game.
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BOA non BOA what ever..

Botters did not ruin this game.

The fact that blizzard rigged the loot system to practically forcing you to use the AH is what ruined the game. Botters, chinese gold farmers, what ever you want to call out as the problem is not really the problem. They where the result of the problem.

Think about gems, just the gems nothing else.

80 million gold per marquise gem. to fill a single toon with them, assuming *3 chest *1 head *2 legs *1 weapons, is only 560 million gold

I have picked up 295 million gold @ 1500 hours of game play.
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Botters did ruin the game and are the reason why high end gems cost so much! I cashed out my radiant star gems along with all my high end gear. I expect high end gems to have a small chance to drop in expansion as well as the gold cost to be far lower for combining gems.
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11/16/2013 11:09 AMPosted by Ace
Botters did ruin the game and are the reason why high end gems cost so much! I cashed out my radiant star gems along with all my high end gear. I expect high end gems to have a small chance to drop in expansion as well as the gold cost to be far lower for combining gems.


Have you ever crafted gems to see how much they cost to make?

15,400,000 gold
1631 tomes (around 600,000 to sell)
243 Flawless squares (around 600,000 to sell)

so we have 16,600,000 in gold and goods Just to craft the radiant stars.

Just keep your blinders on to what ruined the game. Blizzard knows what ruined the game. The AH ruined the game along with their pointing players at it. The gem prices where not made higher since the games release, it was released this way.

Now they are doing a 360 from that and trying to kill off the trade and the bot profitability while bringing players back.

Trade is not the enemy the lack of GOOD goods to trade was. The supply VS the demand made it very very profitable to run lots of toons farming lots of gear.

That's not the people who took advantage of it fault, that fail.. falls squarely on Blizzards shoulders.

I don't care if they made then all the legs tradeable or not as long as i can find stuff i need to progress myself with out needing to use a out of game source, and spending 500 hours trying... I am happy.
Edited by Jane#1803 on 11/16/2013 3:29 PM PST
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Yes well.... apparently those against boa fail to realise that rares and blues will still be tradable. They don't want to acknowledge their existence, in their eyes it's like having boa on everything.

Most important of all, they fail to see that trading items so directly linked to character customization will eventually lead to the homogenization of all players. Making legendaries tradable will also make them the new norm, we'd feel nothing special by actually acquiring them because deep down, we'd know all that time spent farming could have been used differently.

They make the false assumption that trading will not be as effective as playing the game(or at least i hope they are, because if they're not, it would mean that they don't want to play the game and actually earn those items), whereas it's the opposite, even without the ah. We'd be "forced" to trade even though it's not as enjoyable as actually playing the game.
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^ Vlad it's not enjoyable playing 1000s of hours not getting the &^*% you really desire...

Hence the AHs removal (blamed for the current cr&p itemisation we 'enjoy')...

In order to trade you need equivalent/worthwhile gear in order to do so... how do you get this gear then...? By playing the game of course!

It's a frigging ouroboros we are talking about here, they go hand in hand...

You (and a small minority of others) advocate cutting the head off the snake and telling everyone else to &^*% suck it up and play 1000s or hours just to find all those items we really need for our build, when we probably have X amount of other items sitting around that can only be vendored/salvaged because we can't trade for anything we might need!

Silver
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53 Dwarf Warrior
9655
11/15/2013 12:07 PMPosted by HaXiR
I understand the OP's points, but I would ask this. Why does it matter if we can trade them or not? As long as you're FINDING the items as well, how does it affect you in any way? You get what you want in the long run, and so would we. Items will always be sold in games like this on 3rd party sites. So will currency. Look at WoW, or any other game similar. The bottom line is, you're upset with the current system because you HAVE to buy items to progress which I totally agree is stupid with how random and poor the items currently are. But with Loot 2.0, the drops will drastically improve, you will get the same items you normally would weather they are bound or not, so again, how does it affect you in any way?


What's the point of getting "good" items if everyone can get them?

Of course you will compare yourself with others in an ONLINE game.
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^ Vlad it's not enjoyable playing 1000s of hours not getting the &^*% you really desire...

Hence the AHs removal (blamed for the current cr&p itemisation we 'enjoy')...

In order to trade you need equivalent/worthwhile gear in order to do so... how do you get this gear then...? By playing the game of course!

It's a frigging ouroboros we are talking about here, they go hand in hand...

You (and a small minority of others) advocate cutting the head off the snake and telling everyone else to &^*% suck it up and play 1000s or hours just to find all those items we really need for our build, when we probably have X amount of other items sitting around that can only be vendored/salvaged because we can't trade for anything we might need!

Silver


It's the same ah debate all over again. You just don't have the game's best interest at heart and you couldn't be bothered to actually play the game and be rewarded for it. You want the easy way out, most likely because you've been spoiled by the ah. You feel entitled to having all possible legendaries and that's wrong. You are not a kid anymore, you've got to grow up. Trading legendaries would only make them available to everyone and their mother and within months the prices will drop so low, hunting monsters will be a complete waste of time compared to just trading your way up.

The same is the case in PoE, except it has ladders where the economy is kept fresh. But we don't have a ladder and we most likely never will.

Honestly though....can you please rethink your stance? Maybe sleep on it... i don't know...but you're seriously missing the point.
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You make a lot of assumptions about someone you never met.

Hunting monsters and trading items are not mutually exclusive. MMOs are all about hunting monsters and trading items.

There needs to be a ballance between the two or half the social aspect is gone and the game gets busted. D2 was all about hunting monsters and trading items. When you go too far one way or the other it causes what we have now.

Too few items too far apart. Frustration rage angry players.

If they make thing too easy.. Well now it's where is the challenge, I am totally decked out by 70 what's the point of the grind.

Trade has never been the issue. It's forcing the trade that was. You can not progress faster than a snails pase in this game currently with out the ah. To flip it upside down is equally a bad move.
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who cares if u can trade rares and crap items only, players want to be able to trade legendaries or anything they feel would make a good deal for both parties. guess what, if legendary drops are made BOA, roughly 75% of the player base will not buy ROS, only self-found players and people who wish trading never existed will want to play ROS. If you want ROS to massively fail, support BOA, if you want it to actually be considered a valid Diablo game, then you should hate all BOA with extreme prejudice.
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I don't care about trading for profit at all, but I enjoy playing with friends and giving each other the item the other needs if it drops for the other person.

The drop rates were crappy because they expected the AH to be the main form of trade.

They wouldn't even really need to remove the AH given the high chance of stuff dropping in loot 2.0, although I'm ok with it, because really I just like to find things for buddies and pass them on. I'm really not a fan of BoA. Bound on Equip is a compromise, but I don't think either is really necessary if the AH has been removed. I couldn't care less what others buy from botting third parties as long as I can have fun and help out the few friends I have left.
Edited by Sammo#1931 on 11/16/2013 8:15 PM PST
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11/16/2013 04:06 PMPosted by Vlad
It's the same ah debate all over again. You just don't have the game's best interest at heart and you couldn't be bothered to actually play the game and be rewarded for it. You want the easy way out, most likely because you've been spoiled by the ah. You feel entitled to having all possible legendaries and that's wrong. You are not a kid anymore, you've got to grow up. Trading legendaries would only make them available to everyone and their mother and within months the prices will drop so low, hunting monsters will be a complete waste of time compared to just trading your way up.


Oh &*%^!?!? Say whoa!?

So now you have the gall to think you can tell if I don't have this games best interests at heart!?!

I'm going bat &^*% crazy over this self found leg/set item BoA cr&p because I care so damn much!!

Pfft... you say that "I have been spoiled by the AH", you surely misunderstand me and what I am talking about, I don't want an easy way out! I want the ability to play this game, find EPIC LOOT and if I CAN"T FIND ANYTHING WORTH USING, then the ability to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT via trade!!!

We are going from a system whereby I take it that you mean some 'self entitled' few are using the evil AH because they have HAD ENOUGH playing 100s of hours and NOT FINDING ANYTHING? YES!?!

&^*% me a game like Diablo should never have been in a situation where an AH existed! I discussed this at length with those I play the game with how before launch we decided to NEVER USE the AH, but eventually when you don't EVER find anything worth using to give you a leg up past the content being presented to you then you have on your hands a fundamentally &^*%ed situation.

So now we are at a crossroads, we have the upcoming AH closure and RoS (something that I would think we were all looking forward to!) ... to then being told by Blizz:

"Sorry but you gotta play self found only mode now, because those build changers we love to talk about, well those are on most leg/set items and those are now BoA when you find them, good luck and have fun though!"

Also.. please please explain to me what you mean when you say "prices will drop so low"... There's no frigging AH anymore come RoS! Gold will be practically worthless! All that is left is the LOOT HUNT, I have said time and again, the LOOT HUNT is not in anyway FUN when you DO NOT find what you are LOOKING FOR!

BUT!!! If I happen to FIND SOMETHING that is fantastic for someone else you advocate for the inability to trade it nor gift it because as you say playing 1000s of hours to find some "build changers!" that you want to ACTUALLY design a build around is quite all right!?!?

So let me get this straightened out then, I have 700 hours with my now P100 DH, so far there are many on the list of leg/set items that I have never found due to the nature of RNG, but according to you that's ok come RoS as not having them will keep me going! Even though Blizz is telling me these are "build changers!" now, that these very same leg/set items that I want will actually be fundamental to a build that I want to ENJOY! Do I have that right?

*vigorously shakes head*

Once again, sitting confidently here knowing that the majority of the player base don't want to spend 1000 hours looking for leg/set pieces to design a build around! Let alone (given the nature of RNG) the ability to find the really really smoking hot versions of said items! They will just get frustrated and leave in droves, pretty much like what has happened when many of you reached Inferno and found out that anything worth using isn't dropping for you... let alone the smoking hot leg/set items... ever

How on Sanctuary can you not understand this simple concept:

To TRADE for anything of value you have to HAVE something of value!! You get what you need for trading by actually playing the friggin game!!!

Silver
Edited by Silver#6986 on 11/16/2013 8:53 PM PST
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11/16/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Ace
So.....if loot 2.0 comes out as described, but BoA is not apart of it and someone puts an item on a third party site, where are you limited in finding your own loot?


It means anyone can cash out, the temptation is there. Instead of playing for fun, it will be playing for money. Also botters will have a field day and this will cause lots of lag as they play 24/7 for loot and flood third party sites.

I am just struggling to see the connection that if someone acquires an item and then trades said great item why that is problematic to my game if I can also find a great item.


You can still trade rares. You get to keep all legendaries you find, the "cost" of not being able to trade should be well worth it if it means botters are kept at bay.

11/15/2013 12:07 PMPosted by HaXiR
I understand the OP's points, but I would ask this. Why does it matter if we can trade them or not? As long as you're FINDING the items as well, how does it affect you in any way? You get what you want in the long run, and so would we. Items will always be sold in games like this on 3rd party sites. So will currency. Look at WoW, or any other game similar. The bottom line is, you're upset with the current system because you HAVE to buy items to progress which I totally agree is stupid with how random and poor the items currently are. But with Loot 2.0, the drops will drastically improve, you will get the same items you normally would weather they are bound or not, so again, how does it affect you in any way?


You can blame botters, cheaters and pay2win for the reason Blizz is forced to make all leg items BOA. Everyone is affected when botters ruin the game.


D2 was botted to hell and that game is still going, coincidence? Don't think so. Good game prevails over botters. Unless every item is bound, botters and 3prd party selling sites will exist, it just happens. It can be contained with effort on Blizz's part. And a little so what if botters bot, what's it really do to you other than make items more obtainable?
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WOOHOO you can trade the garbage drops, yay.... Anyways....
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