Diablo® III

Dodge&Avoid/Sustain - A Complete Damage List

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Dodge & Avoid/Sustain – A Complete (Predictable) Damage List

Say you don’t like dodge as a choice of defense then you may not like this post. I have seemed far too many people complain about dodge but so what!? Nothing is going to stratified everyone. I’m not saying dodge is perfect but it is the best way to avoid heavy damage like a critical hit. If you ask what improvements I would like to see, I will tell you we need 100% chance to dodge.

I wanted to know the efficiency of dodge. I want to know how much ehp I gain from adding dexterity. So tested all the possibility of damage intake and I made this list just to calculate the effected health gain from depending my survivability on system support.

We have 4 types of damage in this Game
  • predictable dodged
  • predictable blocked
  • predictable avoidable
  • predictable unavoidable
  • Everything can be predicated but not necessary avoided by system support or player skill. This may not be the complete list (since I excluded bosses - ask if you want to know I did do the big ones) but it has all the damage type (predictable) we encounter jumping from zone to zone.

    //If you want to add to this list please test and upload an image with damage number and defense message turned-on (please include monster name).
    //All possibilities are tested with 40% dodged and 40% blocked equipped.

    =====================================================
    (13) Predictable Dodged = 100% damage reduction
    =====================================================
    … elites
    - lightning bolts
    - frozen orb
    - fire chain
    - mortar bomb
    - molten destruction (self-destruct upon death)
    ... others
    - all melee attacks
    - all pinpoint missile attacks (ie. succubus’ blood star)
    - stationary/destructible traps (pillar and mini-volcano)
    - knockback/stun/freeze/fear (effect is not applied when dodged)
    - soul drain (phantom)
    - smash/slam attack (causes knockback - dark berserker, demonic tremor, etc.)
    - hellion bomb (fallen maniac)
    - fire breath (oppressor - cannot be blocked)

    =====================================================
    (9) Predictable Blocked – cannot be Dodged
    =====================================================
    … elites
    NONE – all elite abilities that can be dodged can be blocked
    ... others
    - rampage/charge attack (horned beast)
    - poison seed (wood walker)
    - chilling orb (dark moon clan shaman)
    - spin attack (magewrath)
    - fire pool (smoldering construct – only the initial hit can be blocked)
    - toxic cloud (toxic construct - self-destruct upon death)
    - plagued claw (herald of pestilence)
    - assault tackle (oppressor)
    - crushing blow (mallet lord)
    (*) note: blocked can reduce damage (absorbed) but not effects.
    ie. frozen orb can be ‘blocked’ (damage) but the freeze is applied
    ie. knockback can be ‘blocked’ (damage) but you are still sent flying

    =====================================================
    (14) Predictable Avoidable – requires tactical movement
    =====================================================
    … elites
    - arcane beam
    - molten trail
    - plague pool
    - desecrator
    - vortex (affix deals 'zero' damage as for now)
    ... others
    - baby hornet (desert hornet)
    - accursed toxic (toxic smoke released after death)
    - meteor (morlu incinerator)
    - shadow drift (fallen angel)
    - nightmare flame (demonfire nightmare)
    … traps
    - fire/poison well (damage that comes out of the ground)
    - moonseed
    - demonic mine (one that spits out a cannonball)
    - hell spike
    (*) note: avoiding = not getting in the way, so don't stand in its area of effect

    =====================================================
    (1) Predictable Unavoidable – damage impossible to avoid
    =====================================================
    … elites
    - reflect damage
    =====================================================

    Under my assumption the efficiency of our chance to dodge (what you see on profile detail) is reduce to 13/37 ~= 35.14% of its total value, so the gain in ehp is much lower.
    Assume 644,360 ehp +50% dodge = 781,683 ehp
    I used 95.00% dmg-red but it doesn’t matter for dodge since the reduction value is 100%.

    IF you use a shield with 4206 block amount (ilvl63 average)
    9+12 = 21/37 ~= 56.76% efficiency
    Assume 644,360 ehp +50% block = 756,847 ehp

    You can always pick to have more sustained health and let every single attack hit you then try to heal back by attacking your enemies. We all know that the devs don’t like this option as they have removed Life Steal for the expansion.

    Or you can play careful and avoid more than 90% of all damage in this game. And if you didn’t know, you can also avoid all crowd control by combining dodge and some tactical movements.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcAjkm4_Hk8

    I will leave the rest for you to decide... have fun
    Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 11/18/2013 4:57 PM PST
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    I just want to share with you what I have been doing the past 2 weeks. (wasn't going to upload this but made a video I have no place for). But hey, why not!?

    (reserved for additional info)

    To my surprise a lot of the heavy damage attacks can't be dodged
    ie. Mallet Lords and Desert Hornet
    These 2 are by far the most painful attacks in this game and they don't even look like dot or aoe but they are impossible to dodge...
    Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 11/17/2013 11:34 PM PST
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    11/17/2013 10:22 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
    Desert Hornet

    can't dodge?!? what a shat design this is :/
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    11/17/2013 11:43 PMPosted by DethAxe
    Desert Hornet

    can't dodge?!? what a shat design this is :/


    Because they were supposed to be that epic brick wall you should've faced in Vanilla D3 in Inferno Act 2. Wherein if you'll just run like siht when you see an Elite/Champ pack with Illusionist, Fast, Vortex, Invul Minions/Mortar.
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    11/17/2013 10:21 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
    Say you don’t like dodge as a choice of defense then you may not like this post.


    I may not like dodge as a mechanic but doesn't mean I wouldn't like this post. Sticky requested, or at least compiled in the guides above.

    - Jailor should be inserted into Predictable Unavoidable despite it dealing no damage.

    11/17/2013 10:21 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcAjkm4_Hk8


    Very nice! I did it unintentionally a little while ago (walking sideways to the vortex), the little blue animation went off around the elite and I did not get sucked in. It is however, impossible to pull off consistently.

    11/17/2013 10:21 PMPosted by KirusAlufras
    Under my assumption the efficiency of our chance to dodge (what you see on profile detail) is reduce to 13/37 ~= 35.14% of its total value, so the gain in ehp is much lower.


    Nice in theory. Doesn't change the fact that I have a 50% chance of dying to a single fallen maniac blast, while Barberella can survive one and run away, heal up, get hit again and run away again without dying. Averaging doesn't matter when its a game of Russian Roulette, there is just no average in a yes or no game.

    11/18/2013 02:06 AMPosted by Chrizzle

    can't dodge?!? what a shat design this is :/


    Because they were supposed to be that epic brick wall you should've faced in Vanilla D3 in Inferno Act 2. Wherein if you'll just run like siht when you see an Elite/Champ pack with Illusionist, Fast, Vortex, Invul Minions/Mortar.


    My 12K DPS Proc-Pet Tank doctor could take them! Minions can't die but still can be stunned =D. Granted it's still a harder fight then Diablo himself.

    Soul lickers outside of keep depths doorways on the other hand.... shudders..
    Edited by Wilson#1580 on 11/18/2013 3:35 AM PST
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    Desert Hornet

    can't dodge?!? what a shat design this is :/

    I can understand why they are made that way. Those are 'alive' so you can't dodge or block them when they want to sting you. But Mallet Lords should be dodge able.

    11/18/2013 02:44 AMPosted by Wilson
    Nice in theory. Doesn't change the fact that I have a 50% chance of dying to a single fallen maniac blast, while Barberella can survive one and run away, heal up, get hit again and run away again without dying. Averaging doesn't matter when its a game of Russian Roulette, there is just no average in a yes or no game.

    Work on your sustain health

    If something kills you in mp1 it can kill you in mp10
    If something can kill you in mp10 it can kill you in mp1
    If something can't kill you in mp10 it can't kill you in mp1
    (assume player style does not change)

    And then this
    http://my.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/1qjws3/story_time_with_wyatt_cheng/
    Mr. Cheng suggest that death seems unfair because
    1. we did not gear to sustain the damage
    2. we did not care to move out of danger
    3. we did not know our potential when playing at the chosen difficulty

    If you choose to avoid (like me), dying is fair and planned when sustain is not up to level. If you choose to sustain, dying comes down to lack in strategy and healing when low in health. If you choose to avoid and sustain you shouldn't be dying...
    IMO if you want to test your ehp got and kill off a molten elite and take the blast (MP1) and take the damage you receive and times it by 300%. That will be your minimum LIFE (w/o adding more armor/allresist) for MP10 if you plan on sustaining more damage and not avoid them.
    Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 11/18/2013 10:17 AM PST
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    If you choose to avoid (like me), dying is fair and planned when sustain is not up to level. If you choose to sustain, dying comes down to lack in strategy and healing when low in health. If you choose to avoid and sustain you shouldn't be dying....


    That would make sense if they didn't make sustain so difficult for a DH (as monk have STI/OWE). I just don't like RNG.

    But no point repeating the points since 2.0 is going to change everything. I have a 920 LOH / 7.5CC.70%CD amulet sitting in my stash in case 2.8LS really goes to zilch in 2.0. Then I'll get BT pants as well.

    Anyhow, still very very good info to have. Especially the mallet lord... lol.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyIgqFBHwQU

    dodge so OP
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    11/18/2013 10:01 AMPosted by Wilson
    I just don't like RNG.

    RNG = Range?
    You playing the wrong class?

    If you are talking about dodge, it is not randomized but it is system support so until you get to 100% nothing is for sure. To avoid damage it all comes down to how well you can play.

    Wait until they make an affix that can penetrate your armor and/or resistance value then people will learn not to get hit and pray to their dodge chance to save them from pain.
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    RNG = Random Number Generator
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    Wait until they make an affix that can penetrate your armor and/or resistance value then people will learn not to get hit and pray to their dodge chance to save them from pain.


    They already have a anti-range affix in mortar (though I think dodge works beautifully for that... a little too beautifully in fact)... but I would love to see a penetrative affix to make barbs shrivel in their loins.

    Someone should brave the cesspit of general forums and post that.

    11/18/2013 10:29 AMPosted by VocaloidNyan
    RNG = Random Number Generator


    RNGesus! God of RPGs, specifically X-Com Enemy Unknown and Jagged Alliance.
    Edited by Wilson#1580 on 11/18/2013 10:34 AM PST
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    MVP
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    Nice thread! Mind if I link it some places so it can be easily referenced by my community?
    ________________________________________________
    "Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing at all" ~ HK
    Druin, the happy monk
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    11/18/2013 04:01 PMPosted by Druin
    Nice thread! Mind if I link it some places so it can be easily referenced by my community?

    Go ahead. Glad you like it.

    I will do an update when RoS arrive (stuff just might change) but for now this is the best list I got. And if there are anything that seems missing feel free to ask or add.
    Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 11/18/2013 5:04 PM PST
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyIgqFBHwQU

    dodge so OP


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmDzzTWNUOc

    <(^^<)
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    Interesting but too difficult for Blizzard to implement. They are not capable to fulfill this feat.
    They could careless about DH, why would they even bother to do this.

    See how many times DH got nerf, and how many times we had complained that DH is too squishy.
    They acknowledge it, but nerf further in overall defense of shadow power, until DH lived with it and outgear for defenses. Then in RoS, they took it away again.

    No that I uses SP often, but I feel for those who depended on it.

    @OP, the idea for dodge is superb, but I think you might need to come up with a structure that allow Blizzard to have easier implementation. They can't think well. Listing and categorizing these 'damage' make the work tedious for them.
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    I started the list so I know what kind of damage I should not take my chances. And if you can understand that, your survivability should increase.

    The nerfs we have received are unnecessary ones.

    duration cut on Smoke (cost = 1400% of your discipline/sec ///=_=;)
    proc rate cut on JS (o.O zero... okay?)
    tick rate cut on NT (for such a small aoe and only 1 tick per target?)
    dmg red cut on Gloom (stop making the layer of shadow thinner!!)

    Those that still use perfectionist is still getting their 20% added ehp so the survivability for the class is not any lower in RoS than now. LS is gone so no more instant healing. They are going backwards.

    you like Smoke? => nerf -> hey use SP
    you like SP? => nerf -> hey use Smoke
    you like SMoke > < => nerf -> hey let's use Vault
    you like vault... =.=... nerf -> hey let's use... nerf - what!?

    All of our defense skill has been nerf once if not twice, and I think more are coming since the beta showed DH running with Smoke and spamming the life healing one all the time...
    Edited by KirusAlufras#1739 on 12/2/2013 12:29 AM PST
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    And yet they buff that useless defensive passive (Sure, thanks, but why nerf other defensive skill?)

    Beta players using Brooding for survival, and guess what, it's a skill that encourage you NOT TO MOVE, aka kite/stutter to grant its benefit.

    I don't mind them buffing brooding, since players have one more option, then blizzard go ahead and remove the other option. Seriously, what are they doing? What do they want?

    Stutterstep with Nether Tentacles (Don't want this kind of playstyle, nerf ticks)
    => Smokescreen for survival (Don't like them skipping with impunity, nerf duration)
    => DH start Tanking (Don't want tanking style, remove JS proc, lower grenade proc, reduce asi in all gears) => Start ToC and L4N (Nerf ToC saying its a bug, reintroduce Nat Set to remove disc regen)
    => DH become severely squishy and die in almost 1 hit (Reduce monster damage, increase SP duration, but reduce overall DR in gloom) => rely on Gloom for survival, start gearing up, realize dps is pathetic compared to others (Buff RF to promote tanking again)
    => snapshot for dps/health (In RoS, remove Life steal and nerf gloom further, nerf dodge, add more unavoidable damage affixes) => give us some useless skills and call it a day.

    Seriously? WHAT DO YOU GUYS WANT?

    TLDR: Blizzard's direction for DH since day 1 (Range>Tank>Range>Tank>Range>Tank>Range>...)
    Strength comparison to other class is constantly on the decline. So they can repeatedly churn the players money/gold/assets for each overhaul of style?
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