Diablo® III

Idea for Crushing Blow

You can land more than 2 CB within the span of 5 second for Boss... How about that?

Normal mob will be 2 second CD.
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Crushing blow could do the same % damage to your hp.
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11/22/2013 01:30 PMPosted by Grimiku
One of the things the developers have expressed that they'd like to see is that Crushing Blow is competitive with stats like Increased Attack Speed, Critical Hit Chance, or Critical Hit Damage. However, if it clearly trumps all of those stats in every situation then it might need to re-evaluated. Keeping in mind that higher difficulties will have greater monster health pools, do you think the current version of Crushing Blow will compete with IAS, CHC, and CHD?


Crushing blow as a concept is really terrible, in my opinion. All you need to do is stack super high toughness, super high crushing chance, and a super fast weapon and you'll own T6.

HAVING A STAT THAT AUTOSCALES WITH MONSTER HP IS A REALLY BAD IDEA. IT WILL BE SUPER BROKEN, PLEASE REMOVE THIS CONCEPT.

Instead add more things like elemental damage %, better average damage rolls, skill based effects, ect. Elemental %, average damage, and attackspeed would stack well together.

Just make it so you can only ever roll THREE damage affixes on an item so you have to pick between six or seven different ones.

THIS ISNT HARD GUYS
Edited by Atomsk#1902 on 11/23/2013 1:46 PM PST
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I don't have beta access so I don't know how CB plays in the game, but it sounds way overpowered as it stands.

I think at it's core, if it's to be kept in the game it would need to scale to a percentage that's roughly equivalent to the damage you could do with a CC/CD/IAS combo. Perhaps slightly higher for the initial strikes due to diminishing returns.

The diminishing percentages vs Regular/Champion/Elite/Boss is definitely necessary given the much higher HP the higher grade the monster.

I think adding a cap to its effectiveness a'la the Sorc's Static from D2 could curb it's power as well. Something like:

Normal: CB works for 100%
Hard: 85%
Expert: 70%
Master: 65%
Torment: 50%

Arbitrary numbers for now, but basically it gets the idea across. In D2 Static worked 100% (minus needing actual damage to finish it off) in Normal, took of up to 75% in Nightmare, and only 50% in Hell. Using static beyond those number had no effect. Putting a limit like that on CB could balance it out a little better.

The other idea I have (which might be implemented already) is to have proc coefficients. Skills like Frenzy for Barb obviously work great with CB, but a skill like Bash less so. Something would need to be done so slow attacking skills see a similar overall benefit for CB vs fast attacking skills. CC/CD works out because the slow skills typically have higher damage, which is nicely multiplied by the CC/CD. CB not taking anything other than attack speed into account makes fast attacking skills vastly superior.
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HAVING A STAT THAT AUTOSCALES WITH MONSTER HP IS A REALLY BAD IDEA. IT WILL BE SUPER BROKEN, PLEASE REMOVE THIS CONCEPT.


This sums up my first post perfectly.

This mechanic will always be broken now matter how much it is scaled.
Its almost something like "your life regeneration doubles for every mob you hit stacking up to the maximum hp of the mob you hit"

or like:
"your crit damage doubles every time you score a critical hit"

A mechanic like this just doesn't make sense.
It has no place in Diablo III
Leave it to flash games that you can leave the tab open all day and exponentially get more gold or whatever....
I'm sure you guys know what I mean...
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The whole problem is less about crushing blow then about the HP scaling.

Blizzard can solve this whole problem by giving mobs armour or resistance instead of just inflating their HP.

Similarly the whole lifesteal issue can be fixed this way.

And if there is too much calculation/lag needed allow mobs armor/resistance, then give them a flat damage reduction for each difficulty.
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I don't have beta access so perhaps someone can confirm this....it sounds as if people are saying that when you land a crushing blow you still do your normal damage from the attack as well. Correct?

This is certainly not the ultimate solution to fixing crushing blow but what if when you landed a crushing blow you ONLY got the CB % damage removed from the mobs HP and your normal attack damage was completely negated. This creates a scenario where having a really high CB % has a negative effect, because at some point when the mobs HP gets pretty low it begins to basically negate your attacks, replacing them with some pidly CB damage instead.

EDIT: spelling
Edited by rabidshrew#1565 on 11/23/2013 9:32 PM PST
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my idea would be: crushing blow -> chance on hit to deal 1000% (might tweak that a little) of your weapon damage as physical. but it can NOT crit. that would prevent beeing op as it does not scale with IAS, CHC or CHD, but would also provide a significant dps boost.
Edited by Sp4wN#1770 on 11/24/2013 1:46 PM PST
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the problem is, that right now with monsters having insane health it simply is a mandatory.
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MONSTER'S HPS IS THE PROBLEM. As some of you guys have suggested, boosting armor and resists or some kind of reduction is a good idea. They need to get rid of those uber high HP numbers otherwise CB will always make your base damage almost irrelevant. Other solution (the worse one) would be to boost up base damage output from items (more primary, more crit damage, % increases) but that would end up with crazy numbers like 5K primary stats on a single slot etc.
Edited by Gax#2300 on 11/24/2013 2:46 PM PST
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1) Stop working below 50 or 75% HP or 50% for mobs, 75% for bosses (by far the best option)
2) Internal Cooldown ( 2 up to 5 seconds per mob)
3) Make it on par with IAS or CRIT (boring option)

Simple as that

Also, PLEASE, change the drop rate or fix the smart drop, i don't want to be max geared in 50 hours.
Edited by KajaK#1516 on 11/24/2013 2:48 PM PST
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11/24/2013 02:47 PMPosted by KajaK
Also, PLEASE, change the drop rate or fix the smart drop, i don't want to be max geared in 50 hours.


ever thought about balance testing highend gear in beta? would take ages with normal droprates.
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I built a rough simulator just to get some general stats. They're not going to be completely accurate because they don't assume kiting or target misses but they should illustrate the basic idea:

100k DPS, 5B life target

100k unbuffed, x10 multi, 1M eDPS with 5CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 12.25s eDPS: 408,139,362.88 Multiplier: x4081.3936

100k unbuffed, x10 multi, 1M eDPS with 1CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 49.21s eDPS: 101,604,099.02 Multiplier: x1016.0410

100k unbuffed, x10 multi, 1M eDPS with 1CB/5s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 186.00s eDPS: 26,881,781.10 Multiplier: x268.8178

100k unbuffed, x10 multi, 1M eDPS with No CB
Kill Time: 5,000s

1M DPS, 5B life target

1M unbuffed, x10 multi, 10M eDPS with 5CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 8.81s eDPS: 567,679,128.64 Multiplier: x567.6791

1M unbuffed, x10 multi, 10M eDPS with 1CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 32.07s eDPS: 155,921,116.67 Multiplier: x155.9211

1M unbuffed, x10 multi, 10M eDPS with 1CB/5s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 102.03s eDPS: 49,006,786.35 Multiplier: x49.0068

1M unbuffed, x10 multi, 10M eDPS with No CB
Kill Time: 500s

5M DPS, 5B life target

5M unbuffed, x10 multi, 50M eDPS with 5CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 6.41s eDPS: 779,605,583.35 Multiplier: x155.9211

5M unbuffed, x10 multi, 50M eDPS with 1CB/s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 20.41s eDPS: 245,033,931.75 Multiplier: x49.0068

5M unbuffed, x10 multi, 50M eDPS with 1CB/5s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 50.52s eDPS: 98,980,103.51 Multiplier: x19.7960

5M unbuffed, x10 multi, 50M eDPS with No CB
Kill Time: 100s

Note that there is only 5.84 seconds difference between the 100k set vs the 5M set @5CB/s, despite having 50 times as much DPS.

If you cut CB down to 1CB/5s, the 100k dps set still only takes x3.68 times as long despite a x50 deficit in DPS.

At worst, having CB even at a 1/5s rate it increases your eDPS output x1.98. At best it increases it x26.8.

CB makes dps stats (except IAS, you need that to proc CB more often) largely irrelevant. More DPS makes the kill speed faster but it only comes into play for the last 5% of the monster's health pool.

CB is massively overpowered even if it only procs once every 5 seconds.

-dolynick
Edited by dolynick#1290 on 11/24/2013 3:19 PM PST
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Blizzard , did you ever think about to make CB affix unique=permanent to some kind of weapons like

1h Mace = always have CB 1-15%
2h Mace = always have CB 10-25%

1h Swords = always have Splash Dmg 5-15%
2h Swords = always have Splash Dmg 10-25%

1h Dagger = always have ( Multiplay your CC by X%-Y% )

and so on...

In my opinion, it would give some meaning to different kind of weapons, and this affix will stay in game in more unique way. On other items you could use instead something like Multiplay CC , SD , AS , CB by X%.

Thx you if you read it , would be glad to hear what you think about it.
Edited by DwC#1893 on 11/24/2013 4:05 PM PST
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11/24/2013 02:47 PMPosted by KajaK
1) Stop working below 50 or 75% HP or 50% for mobs, 75% for bosses (by far the best option)
2) Internal Cooldown ( 2 up to 5 seconds per mob)
3) Make it on par with IAS or CRIT (boring option)

Simple as that

Also, PLEASE, change the drop rate or fix the smart drop, i don't want to be max geared in 50 hours.

Wonder how long it would take to reduce that remaining 75% from 1b+ HPs with your 1m DPS. Fighting a white mob for 5 mins doesn't seem cool.

Cooldown doesn't work as just have been proven by dolynick.
Edited by Gax#2300 on 11/24/2013 3:57 PM PST
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11/22/2013 01:30 PMPosted by Grimiku
One of the things the developers have expressed that they'd like to see is that Crushing Blow is competitive with stats like Increased Attack Speed, Critical Hit Chance, or Critical Hit Damage. However, if it clearly trumps all of those stats in every situation then it might need to re-evaluated. Keeping in mind that higher difficulties will have greater monster health pools, do you think the current version of Crushing Blow will compete with IAS, CHC, and CHD?


It competes very well, is crushing blow only for lvl 70 items or can lower lvl items roll it as well?
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CB is perfect as-is.

It's the same as it was in D2, and rightfully so. Remember smiters? It's very necessary when you have monsters/bosses with billions of hp. You still need DPS to kill them, and if you don't have enough DPS, it'll take you forever to kill them once you get their life low.

A lot of you don't understand that Blizzards WANTS something like this to take away from the trifecta. It absolutely 100% competes with CHD, CC, and IAS. That's exactly what they wanted, and what this game needed. Now you have to balance in one more stat, and not all of them are available on the same item(s). This is a huge step in the right direction, and I'm ok with it being 25% of remaining life, as it was in D2.
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11/24/2013 06:10 PMPosted by Conan
A lot of you don't understand that Blizzards WANTS something like this to take away from the trifecta.


I get that. And there is some merit in it as well - lessening the chase for just sheet DPS. The problem is that Crushing Blow, as it stands right now, completely overshadows other combat stats. It's basically mandatory in the higher Torment levels. It's just swapping one must have set of stats (trifecta) for another (CB).

1M unbuffed, x10 multi, 10M eDPS with 1CB/5s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 102.03s eDPS: 49,006,786.35 Multiplier: x49.0068

In that test, CB accounts for 3.8B (79.59%) of the total damage.

100k unbuffed, x10 multi, 1M eDPS with 1CB/5s @ 12.5% cut per hit
Kill Time: 186.00s eDPS: 26,881,781.10 Multiplier: x268.8178

Here, CB accounts for 4.814B (96.28%) of the total damage. Kill time is less than double that of the build above that does x10 more sheet dps.

It needs to be tuned so that it's not 100% most effective in Torment VI to maximize CB before you starting thinking about increasing DPS for "finishing speed".

-dolynick
Edited by dolynick#1290 on 11/24/2013 6:46 PM PST
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give CB a CD
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if you're going to carbon copy an ability out of d2 maybe think about how it works and why it isn't overpowered. Hint: cb was an ability used by high attack speed, low aoe melee builds.
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