Diablo® III

Constructive Views of WD for ROS

12/03/2013 06:39 AMPosted by Hub
I am sorry for being so unconstructive, but my level of disappointment has reached a point I didn't think was possible. Maybe something will bring me back around and get me excited for RoS, but as it stands right now I don't know.


don't be sorry bud, and it is constructive, your opinion does matter, we need more honest feedback like this.

thanks for sharing your thoughts
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You can have 10 zombiedogs in ROS, completely enhanced by unique legendary items.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGFN8s0C5E
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12/03/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Niels
You can have 10 zombiedogs in ROS, completely enhanced by unique legendary items.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGFN8s0C5E


oh Holy poop!!!

what does this do for 0dog?...the Epicness :P
Edited by REAPER666#1553 on 12/3/2013 9:22 AM PST
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This actually looks really cool!! He mentioned gloves that gives your pets 100 % increased attack speed and another that adds pet damage, and another that he said gives Gary extra damage (which he was not sure if he had). I am liking this so far, the first I have seen of something like this. Now, we need more of it!
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Looks like he's just using a bugged interaction between boogie man and passive summons (possibly caused by midnight feast?), I'm guessing it's working on separate max dog counts at the moment.

100% none of his items are causing this which makes me less hopeful it'll stick once Blizzard checks their code again. Sure looks cool and would make an incredible pet wall though.
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I'm disappointed in the zombie charger changes at the moment. There's so much potential for different builds but they're stifling it with this insistence on bad ratios. Everything except pile on is doing less dps than only 2 bears hitting. You shouldn't not be hitting with 2 bears as a worst case scenario (in the open with no terrain to back up against), otherwise it's always all 3.

Getting rid of leperous and wave and keeping undeath? Undeath is so buggy and mechanically unsound in it's current format that it needs an overhaul.

Tbh I wish they'd just raise everything not bears up to 2-2.5 bears worth of damage, with pile on maybe at 3.5 because it's so damn hard to land consistently. Then mash leperous and wave together (we'll need a decent proc rune to choose with lifesteal gone and those clouds are crazy good) and possibly tack on the undeath respawn mechanic into explosive beast for some kind of corpse explosion extravaganza and it can be the skill you think about using with fire damage items.

I should explain this in more depth since it probably only makes sense in my head atm, but I'll come back to it tomorrow. I can see a future where every single zc rune is its own functioning build, it's so close but if they overlook the details again, there won't be all these builds functional up to torment 6. So much hope for RoS, I don't want one build, I want 100 builds that are all just as worthy as each other.
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12/03/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Surijak
I should explain this in more depth since it probably only makes sense in my head atm, but I'll come back to it tomorrow. I can see a future where every single zc rune is its own functioning build, it's so close but if they overlook the details again, there won't be all these builds functional up to torment 6. So much hope for RoS, I don't want one build, I want 100 builds that are all just as worthy as each other.


You are a very short list of people who I look forward to getting comments from.

You have a FULL grasped of the true spirit of the WD and what they should be.

I look forward to your detail comments here.

Thanks again for your contributions
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tbh i enjoy how the wd can play melee and ranged well the fact that its possible is what i like. but there really isnt the ability to play ranged becuase our ranged spells are weak and make it almost impossible to run high mps with a ranged setup. when i say a ranged build i mean like how a dh could play. u never even have to bne close to ur target im not taliing about bears or pb ranged im talking about full screen away ranged. i would love a viable option for ranged an melee, well multiple options so 1 run i can run a melee spec and the next run i can run a range spec, and the third run i could run a hybrid ranged/melee or a pet build. i just want diversity i love my cob but it would be nice to switch it up once in a while to help keep things fresh and having numerous viable builds will help with that.
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12/03/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Niels
You can have 10 zombiedogs in ROS, completely enhanced by unique legendary items.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeGFN8s0C5E
what a noob increase summon zombie dog damage shoulders but he hasnt even summoned any dogs hehe
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tbh i enjoy how the wd can play melee and ranged well the fact that its possible is what i like. but there really isnt the ability to play ranged becuase our ranged spells are weak and make it almost impossible to run high mps with a ranged setup. when i say a ranged build i mean like how a dh could play. u never even have to bne close to ur target im not taliing about bears or pb ranged im talking about full screen away ranged. i would love a viable option for ranged an melee, well multiple options so 1 run i can run a melee spec and the next run i can run a range spec, and the third run i could run a hybrid ranged/melee or a pet build. i just want diversity i love my cob but it would be nice to switch it up once in a while to help keep things fresh and having numerous viable builds will help with that.


Thanks Dave,

Yeah that's the thing pal, we don't have Viable ranged attacks to clear the highest content in game

As I have said before, we are limited to a 8 yrd radius as an example of our primary damage dealer.

This is unacceptable!!

Sure their will be bugs that need to be recoded, skills not working as proposed, but If we head off the proposed changes ahead of time, we can avoid most unnecessary patches and bug reports later.

I havn't gone through all the proposed skill changes yet due to work constraints, but I plan to give it the Reaps evaluation :P

Thanks for you your feedback pal, much appreciated.
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oh has anyone seen/documented or even noticed how to proc coefficients have changed? i realize that life steal wont be viable anymore so it seems loh will get the spot light a little bit. so take cob for instance will the proc be ajusted so loh is viable? i also noticed life per second is getting buffed ive seen some items rolling 2k lps so that should be very good but how will that balance out when u have 200k+ hp which is def realistic imo i have 70+k right now with 1400 vit some items in ros look liek they roll 800+ vit so thats a huge amount of health. ive also seen there was legendary potions thats restore 60% of ur health so thats like a 120k health per potion if u have 200k hp so that could be an option as well.

which brings me to my next point i very easy way to deal with the loss of life steal would be potions themselves. but u have a 1 min timer atm before u can use a 2nd potion. tbh i havent used a potion in d3 vanilla in about 4 months i dont even take them on my toons anymore its worth less. now in ros lets pretend that u can cast potion unlimitedly with no timer u could actually stack health globe/potion bonus and rely on using portions as a source of healing in addition to loh and lps and persoanlly i think that would be legit. maybe have the drop rate of potion lowered and if a merchant sells them make them somewhat expensive. maybe like 50k per potion or even 100k per potion this way it wont be super abused as the only way to stay alive. idk i m just brain stoming here but haveing a legit potion option would help make the transition from losing life steal more manageable.
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12/03/2013 11:26 AMPosted by EvoIution
200k+ hp


Put on BR with high HP and no need for LS I would think...well combined with some LoH.
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yea tbh im not actually concerned with the nerf to lifesteal. i feel it will be easily able to over come.. but maybe im delusional :)
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12/02/2013 08:04 PMPosted by REAPER666
luff,

look at the decaying skills and tell me your opinions based on new info.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/#type=decay


Well... only very few runes on decay group can be used for high mp with current implementation in this patch.
The reason is just that we all rely on lifesteal... and then Bat runes are just too good on that.
Now, RoS sustaining model is changed and LS is not a viable.
The decay group may become very important.... this is the skill group we need to kite, proc LoH

I haven't seen anyone using WoZ for a long time. In RoS, this however, can be one of the most important skill.
Cooldown time down to 8 sec makes it very usable. I would use it for stop the mob first and add another skill for range/kite attack.

Acid cloud does have some buff on RoS. The AoE is too large. If the damage is buffed to a very high number, this is too overpower and I don't think Bliz will do that. As I read the new spec., the buffed damage is on small area like blob, or bomb at small area (or dmg over time). I don't expect too much dmg on this skill.

zombie charger, in RoS we have now 2 usable runes: bear and pileon.
I love pileon and the 800% damage is a crazy number. Sweet!
Bear buffed to 392% ( x3 bears for each spam) make sense... comparing with pileon.
Then as usual... I don't know the other runes....(who does??)

I have high expectation on Spirit barrage. We have 4 bolts in RoS??!
Spirit is Willing has pretty high damage by itself. 4 beams of SiW is great. (talking about 425% X 4 for each spam! )
Then the buffs on the other runes look pretty crazy to me.... 1667% => 4000%?
It seems to me that all runes on this skills are quite usable. Now what happened to WoS? do we have 12 beams?
I hope SB can be more scaled to ias gear with RoE passive.

After all, without beta RoS, I just put down my wild guesses... no idea how things are scaled.
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Just seeing some of this info gets me really excitedfor ros. I can't wait to try out new skills with new weapons when the xpac hits.
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12/02/2013 03:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
I'd say that Reaper of Souls will help build diversity for Witch Doctors on every difficulty level. For example, getting close to your enemies to hit them with Cloud of Bats is a lot riskier when you subtract Life Steal from the equation, and will likely influence the player's decision to use that spell. Also, when you consider some of the updates made in Reaper of Souls (like the loss of Life Steal, damage buffs to other skills, and new Legendary affixes), then it starts to look like Witch Doctors will have a greater variety of viable skill choices.


Hey friends, what will you suggest for me about my life-steal weapon? Will it be totally useles at ROS? Should I change it?

Here is my profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Toygar-2188/hero/3162747
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Posted by REAPER666
luff,

look at the decaying skills and tell me your opinions based on new info.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/active/#type=decay

Well... only very few runes on decay group can be used for high mp with current implementation in this patch.
The reason is just that we all rely on lifesteal... and then Bat runes are just too good on that.
Now, RoS sustaining model is changed and LS is not a viable.
The decay group may become very important.... this is the skill group we need to kite, proc LoH

I haven't seen anyone using WoZ for a long time. In RoS, this however, can be one of the most important skill.
Cooldown time down to 8 sec makes it very usable. I would use it for stop the mob first and add another skill for range/kite attack.

Acid cloud does have some buff on RoS. The AoE is too large. If the damage is buffed to a very high number, this is too overpower and I don't think Bliz will do that. As I read the new spec., the buffed damage is on small area like blob, or bomb at small area (or dmg over time). I don't expect too much dmg on this skill.

zombie charger, in RoS we have now 2 usable runes: bear and pileon.
I love pileon and the 800% damage is a crazy number. Sweet!
Bear buffed to 392% ( x3 bears for each spam) make sense... comparing with pileon.
Then as usual... I don't know the other runes....(who does??)

I have high expectation on Spirit barrage. We have 4 bolts in RoS??!
Spirit is Willing has pretty high damage by itself. 4 beams of SiW is great. (talking about 425% X 4 for each spam! )
Then the buffs on the other runes look pretty crazy to me.... 1667% => 4000%?
It seems to me that all runes on this skills are quite usable. Now what happened to WoS? do we have 12 beams?
I hope SB can be more scaled to ias gear with RoE passive.

After all, without beta RoS, I just put down my wild guesses... no idea how things are scaled.


Excellent!!! thanks for your detailed assessment
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12/04/2013 05:06 AMPosted by Toygar
I'd say that Reaper of Souls will help build diversity for Witch Doctors on every difficulty level. For example, getting close to your enemies to hit them with Cloud of Bats is a lot riskier when you subtract Life Steal from the equation, and will likely influence the player's decision to use that spell. Also, when you consider some of the updates made in Reaper of Souls (like the loss of Life Steal, damage buffs to other skills, and new Legendary affixes), then it starts to look like Witch Doctors will have a greater variety of viable skill choices.


Hey friends, what will you suggest for me about my life-steal weapon? Will it be totally useles at ROS? Should I change it?

Here is my profile: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Toygar-2188/hero/3162747


Don't worry about your weapon, you will find an upgrade when RoS comes out before you hit lvl 70
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I was looking at the changes to spiders namely medusa spiders with the 100% chance to slow. I thought this was a nice change for a guaranteed effect.

Than I realized something was missing from the WD skill selection. Blazing spiders isn't really doing much as a rune so why not change it to spice things up a bit. Brain Spiders would have a % chance to cause mind control and create another pet for a duration or until they died.

I don't want to just have dogs and gary running around. I want the chance to really make my own army, having some demonic tremors under my power, or a bunch of trees, maybe some shamans with those damn fireballs.

Mass confusion somewhat does this by having the enemies fight for you and against each other but for only a short duration. The new phlebotomize has a chance to charm enemies but only for 4 seconds.

I saw that the Host rings now spawn skeletons and I thought why doesn't the WD have anything like this? Albeit a little different than the rings causing the spawns but I'm sure this could be worked into an item as well if they wanted to.

How cool would it be to have this?
Edited by Tocean#1750 on 12/4/2013 8:13 AM PST
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•Zombie Charger - Now costs 150 Mana (up from 140). Deals 560% damage (up from 205%)
◦Leperous Zombie replaced by Pile On - Rune is taken from Zombie Wall. Now deals 800% damage (up from 240%)
◦Undeath - Now deals 360% damage (up from 205%)
◦Wave of Zombies replaced by Lumbering Cold - Now reads: Zombie winter bears crawl out of the ground and crawl in all directions, dealing 252% weapon damage as Physical to nearby enemies (previously Summon 3 Zombie Chargers that each deal 115% weapon damage as poison)
◦Explosive Beast - Now deals 532% damage (up from 236%)
◦Zombie Bears - Now deals 392% damage (up from 236%)
Ok, just using the above as a point of reference, we can also see 2 bears=784% and 3 bears=1176%

--

Firstly, at the moment zombie bears IS zombie charger. There are no other runes worth a mention. It is massively flexible in skilled hands, massive aoe potential, staggered bears smooth out the flow of damage, modifiable long range, and when done right, triple (and even double) bears blows everything else away, it's not just sheet dps either but also effective aoe coverage. So with this in mind, every other zombie charger rune needs to be brought up to level with zombie bears or you can forget it, different play styles is good but the dps needs to be there first. I think I've drummed on equitable dps for long enough and I wanted to cover some mechanical concepts with the other options that currently fill up our zombie charger runes.

Pile on has been brought in from WoZ, I don't have a lot to cover here since I don't intend this to be a pile on thread but the 0 cooldown is important and while pile on is a mechanical monster to deal with, it offers a different defensive style of play very different from bears, depending on where you farm you can take elites from 100->0 without ever getting touched or have massive difficulties with them. The key take away is the play style variant.

Undeath, this rune needs to die, seriously. Ignoring the damage on it, it's using the tiny aoe of the base animation, it requires the last hit (instead of pets or dots), it doesn't respawn until the previous zombie dies making it not very clear it's working, the spawn occurs at either it's end point or at your WD depending on the closest enemy further confusing the skill, it's capped at 2 respawns for some nonsensical reason, if you manage to kill multiple enemies with one cast (common occurance with waves of the same monster type) then you're wasting potential respawns because you'll only ever get one respawn at a time and they don't bank up, and the zombies are so very slow meaning there's a good chance your respawns won't ever hit anything anyway. There is nothing going for this rune, it's a copy and paste of the base version with a terrible nonfunctional respawn mechanic. I think there's hope for it as an ancillary feature of explosive beast given the existing mechanics of that rune but I'll cover it when I cover that rune.

Lumbering cold, I'm so glad they redid dead rush or I'd have an undeath sized rant for it too. And this is another great example of a rune that can define it's own build, I'm not sure if each ice bear hits for damage or there's one total per cast but it could open up options for super damage vs bosses because they're so big. The main thing that jumps to mind for a nova build is the freedom to cut back on pick up radius, I appreciate that this simple design change can adjust your gearing decision making, as well novas are a lot simpler to hit with, I think the playstyle will very much be reminiscent of CoB without the drawback of high start up costs, this is going to be where it finds its niche and I'm glad to see it. I'm curious as to how the damage mechanics will be treated as long as they can get the ratios right in the first place

Exploding beast, another solid option with its own kinks and tricks to work around to get the most out of the skill, be it getting in the middle or adjusting your angle to maximize the blast radius. The pathing seems a little buggy at first but it's all about controlling angles and the range from your WD, in some ways it's like playing snooker which is pretty cool. I think if they get the damage right, then it may simply replace the CoB/Bears play style with a CoB/Beast setup thanks to all the fire focused items you can run.
A follow up on the undeath revamp here, exploding beast instantly disappears when it hits, if you kill a monster then the path is clear for a respawn to go charging off somewhere else and it visually makes more sense, it blew up, then it respawned and went off again. The speed of beast also makes any respawns a whole lot more viable, and even if it misses, it still has a blast radius to hit any fleeing monsters with. Overall it's a whole lot cleaner on screen and the mechanics of beast clear up a lot of the issues of undeath. The only other thing it'd need would be for you not to be punished by the game for killing multiple monsters at once, remove the caps on respawns and if you kill for example 3 monsters at once, then the respawn occurs 3 times at once and they all charge off. Ideally the rune should be scaled without considering the respawns feature as it doesn't help you kill the first wave any faster, and only rewards you if you take the time to run monsters around for a while building up a big pack.

^Yes, I know I went into pie in the sky territory with this one but if Blizzard wants to keep undeath in the game, this is so much more useful and reliable

So what's happening with leperous and wave? They've got the art assets and the mechanics already and leperous zombie with its clouds really needs to come back, but using the wave animation to add a larger aoe while giving them the clouds ensures a proc play style is available in zombie charger. I've already been running leperous in the current state of the game and it's completely functional in MP10 with no lifesteal, I don't like the idea of losing the option to play like this going into RoS.

And there you have it, every single rune can be devoted to an individual play style without competing only on the merits of which does more damage. And this is also why I'm frustrated, if any single rune does (minimum) less damage per cast than landing 2 zombie bears then we've failed because the numbers will be too disparate for play style to ever be worth a damn. I'd want to see it be even closer but I also can't tell Blizzard what to do with their game, only voice my dreams for it.
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