Diablo® III

An "Intelligent" assessment on ROS..so far

11/27/2013 02:12 PMPosted by REAPER666
Mark my words, this conversation will appear again.

Throwing a bunch of shiny new Legs at us is not the solution.

The illusion of the new car smell of the shiny new gear we are seeing will soon have its Veil lifted, If there is not an "END GAME" approach to ROS.

I see 400-500 (over optimistic imo) hrs tops of play before a player is back to a "grind" game at current state.


I completely agree 100%
Reply Quote
MVP
Posts: 10,991
View profile
Keep up the discussions. I can attest that the developers do take to heart suggestions and feedback, I know it firsthand. If you're watching streams, YouTube videos, reading through conversations (or participating in them), keep voicing your thoughts and stay constructive. Make suggestions, give reasons for your logic.

I'll just use the original BoA on transmogrification example. Ohhh, man, people despised that feature. But hey, Blizzard removed it after considering the reasons voiced by the players. There are some who didn't care for it, some who liked it, but because it's logical to keep transmog from BoA, the change was made.

It's still Beta, everyone, a lot can happen between now and tomorrow, tomorrow and the closed beta later in the year, between then and the AH closing, and on and on. Actually, right now it's more like Alpha 1.5 since there are sooooo many things that need tuning. This is the time to make suggestions. Pretend you're the developer and try to understand why they would consider making legendaries BoA. Because the game is designed to be a lifelong grindfest? Because they want you to hunt down your gear without relying too much on others? Another reason? If these aren't logical, how would you tackle it? How would you instate trading without the game become a static trade market? How would you keep players going in-game instead of waiting in a trade channel for that next upgrade?

There are pros and cons to everything, that's why there are debates.
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 04:41 PMPosted by Jaetch
Pretend you're the developer and try to understand why they would consider making legendaries BoA. Because the game is designed to be a lifelong grindfest? Because they want you to hunt down your gear without relying too much on others? Another reason? If these aren't logical, how would you tackle it?


Ok I'll give it go....

J...you know I have been around for some time now and have seen all aspects of the game with points of view and experience of all 5 classes.

ROS is the same D3 game with a different bow on its head.

We have one additional ACT to complete (Story line ends there), one more character to run, level our toons to 70 and unlimited paragons and look for gear to clear game.

Diablo games are and were designed to have us grind endlessly with the hopes and dreams of better gear, so we can clear the game content more efficiently.

Kill monsters to get loot right?

Once game is cleared efficiently on lower Torment levels...then what?..

Ok so then we move on to Torment 6...we're feeling brave, feeling like we can take on the world, played 400 ish hrs, picked up some pretty epic gear.....cleared Torment 6...then what?

Oh wait.... we have bounties and Rifts to run.... we'll those have been done already to get the epic gear needed to clear Torment 6.

So now I have run all content of the game, beat the game in Torment 6, did many Rift and Bounty runs whats next?...look for better gear?

Oh im sure I can squeeze some better gear here and there, "let's grind some more, I'm on a mission for better gear".

now ... we are back right where we left off in D3 are'nt we?

Like I said its the same pig with a new bow on its head.

Though the new legs look neat and amazing, what is the end game?

TBH, I dont know what Blizz's thinking on BOA gear, please enlighten me if you know.
I don't want to throw out assumptions on this matter, so if you know something here please let me know.

God knows I'm a huge Diablo fan , dig Blizz and their games.

My point to this thread is, unless the game is updated frequently, new challenges, new Bosses, new features, new characters, new maps, new monsters, the game will stall for players after about 400 hrs of play.

BTW...when you say this? Keep up the discussions. I can attest that the developers do take to heart suggestions and feedback, I know it firsthand.

I fear that the WD community is overlooked for some reason, weve asked for MVP's...ignored

If you compare the Blues responses in other forums WD get the least looks, why? IDK

This thread is not for them to notice as much it is to voice my observations and or concerns to my friends here.

I have been a huge supporter of the WD community, love these guys.

They might think I've gone nuts, but I cant stay silent anymore.
Edited by REAPER666#1553 on 11/27/2013 7:32 PM PST
Reply Quote
@Jaetch - Most of us are aware that RoS is still in beta and what that entails. I believe the community is just very frustrated at this point. That frustration bleeds through more than the excitement for RoS in most threads on the forums. For me personally, most of the things that RoS is putting on the table should have been how classic D3 should've launched, but that wasn't the case. The dedicated ones powered through an incomplete game. Waited months for new features like Paragons, better legs, ubers, but they stayed the course in hopes that the franchise they grew up playing will get better. It somewhat did, just took a little bit too long. D2 went through something similar, but that was more than a decade ago. We are now at a place where the gaming communities' voices are so loud that when no one listens or it takes too long for anything to be done... they just kind of move on to a different game. So faith that Blizzard will listen immediately is small. That sour taste in the mouth is going to linger until the community can feel that their ideas will be looked into now and not 6 months after RoS is launched. Bug/balance fixes here and there, sure, but ultimately, all we want is a Diablo game that is complete and polished; open for new game mechanics to be added. Not a Diablo game that will slowly get completed and polished AFTER launch. We want the game we bought back in May 2012, we've yet to get it.
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 11/27/2013 6:02 PM PST
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
@Jaetch -

The problems as I see it are:

1. PC players that know the game do not like BoA. If people are afraid of trading and want to endlessly grind for gear they should buy a console version of the game. Problem solved.

2. If Blizz can't figure out how to run an AH they should get out of the way. Third party sites would fill the gap. If people want to whine about being ripped off when spending their allowance then they should play console D3. Why does the whole community have to be dumbed down to the 12 year old level?

3. If Blizz doesn't want to have a PC version that meets the community’s needs then they should let the PC version go. Let people run it on their PCs, and servers, and mod the game like they did with D2. They could keep the current version of RoS for all the trading haters.

4. Mostly Blizz needs to listen to their communities and make a game for everyone to play.

5. And last I would say to you personally that if they can't/don't listen to the community’s voice, you should quit the Green stuff you are doing, throw them the bird, and move on. They should be the one's coming on the forums and explaining their decisions -- not you.
Reply Quote
Sky,

You know the issue I see bud?...they are listening to general discussions only.

Most of them are too young to drive with a 10th grade education, and yet are being listened to, and building a game around those circus clowns suggestions.

And some of these Beta testers?, dont get me started on that, some are so clueless and out of touch with the game it makes me sick. I have no clue why they are even there.

I would like to hear more opinions on this guys, What are your observations?
Edited by REAPER666#1553 on 11/27/2013 6:50 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 06:34 PMPosted by skywalkerfx
2. If Blizz can't figure out how to run an AH they should get out of the way. Third party sites would fill the gap. If people want to whine about being ripped off when spending their allowance then they should play console D3. Why does the whole community have to be dumbed down to the 12 year old level?


You can't be serious Sky....you would rather scan an AH or even worse a 3rd party site full of people that will scam you in a second than find you own gear that means something to you when you find it? How does that not sound ridiculous?

I want a game where the time I put in "playing" not searching forums or 3rd parts sites actually nets me a reward...and RoS sounds like that kind of game.

Now, as Reaper pointed out the real problem right now is there is no end game. A possible end game that has been stated over and over by players in the forums is Endless Dungeon. Blizz shaped it into their own creation, Nephalem Rifts, but missed the point of it. The point of it was that the Dungeon would get more difficult as it goes down until you reach a point where you could not go further and you could grind out the higher levels until you get the gear to move forward. It would be totally random with random bosses, just like NRs, except it would never end and you could continue where you left off.

This idea may not have an end but at least it is something to measure your character by and brings in a sense of competition. Blizz did it wrong in my eyes.
Edited by rockon87#1616 on 11/27/2013 6:59 PM PST
Reply Quote
MVP
Posts: 10,991
View profile
I'm certain they're reading over stuff, but I can do my best to give them a push. Just have to wait until Monday though since they're all off until then, more or less.

11/27/2013 05:50 PMPosted by REAPER666
I fear that the WD community is overlooked for some reason, weve asked for MVP's...ignored

Not ignored. Still under consideration ;) Same with the DHs.

11/27/2013 06:34 PMPosted by skywalkerfx
5. And last I would say to you personally that if they can't/don't listen to the community’s voice, you should quit the Green stuff you are doing, throw them the bird, and move on. They should be the one's coming on the forums and explaining their decisions -- not you.

I'm not employed. I just do this because I enjoy doing what I do. I don't have their responsibilities and I'm doing this voluntarily. If I can help bring things from the forum in front of the community reps' eyes, who can then bring the material to the developers and designers, then mission accomplished.

But anyway, other than that, I don't know all that much else about what goes on behind the scenes.

Posted by rockon87
Now, as Reaper pointed out the real problem right now is there is no end game. A possible end game that has been stated over and over by players in the forums is Endless Dungeon. Blizz shaped it into their own creation, Nephalem Rifts, but missed the point of it. The point of it was that the Dungeon would get more difficult as it goes down until you reach a point where you could not go further and you could grind out the higher levels until you get the gear to move forward. It would be totally random with random bosses, just like NRs, except it would never end and you could continue where you left off.

That's something they want to bring to reality in the future. The Nephalem Rifts aren't endless dungeons and they acknowledged that they aren't endless. They're randomized dungeons. Players have been clamoring for endless dungeons, but they have also clamored for more random dungeons. Just like ladders—which, as of now, we don't know when or how will they be implemented—something like an endless dungeon will likely come forth once RoS launches and things are relatively stable.

Who knows. Maybe players won't be able to reach the end game for... 8 months. A year. Who knows what kind of new patches and updates will be live by then? I don't know. The developers probably have something on their to-do lists, but that's just not part of their priorities right now. Gotta get RoS running first with all the features that were "missing from launch." Better those features be late than never. Blizzard knows the game can be improved. And as a side note, bear in mind that many members of their development team are new. They weren't working on vanilla D3 originally. They were brought on board after the game was launched.

Again, I'll do my best to pass ideas and feedback along. I've been doing it mostly for the wizard forum for the past few months, so I do hope we can get a WD MVP or two sometime soon to help out :)
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch
Reply Quote
NOW...some constructive views on WD....

"Witch doctors are spiritual warriors who summon dead souls and crawling creatures to do their bidding. By surrounding themselves with conjured zombies and vermin, witch doctors are free to assault their enemies with exploding skulls, acid poison clouds, and wasting curses.

The ability to infect, slow and terrify their enemies gives witch doctors unprecedented control over a battlefield. They can manipulate opposing attacks and movements with debuffs and crowd control spells, rendering enemies easy prey for hungry pets. Witch doctors can also lay down fields of fire and venom that slowly leech life from advancing foes.

Although some witch doctors avoid melee combat in favor of augmenting their pets and crippling their enemies from afar, they are also more than capable of slaying weakened foes with their own hands"


So this is what WD's are according to blizz devs.

These things sound really neat and fun to run right?

Yet the skills we have, only a very small percentage can actually clear the highest content of the game.WHY? blizz????

Adding "some" goofy new spells will not help this class.

Each spell a WD has must be re-looked at.

According to Devs and their description, a WD is more of a ranged attacker, and should not be limited to a cloud of bats 8 yrds wide for example to clear the highest content in the game.

what changed Blizz?

They should use way more of their summoning abilities to kill for them.

Thats a True WD period!!!

The use of pets and or summoning has been reduced to almost ZERO in D3.

This will not do. The AOE for example of Acid cloud is epic but does sub par damage ...why?

This is just an example of the lack of attention or lack of funding to this game to characters that need attention.

I can go on and on...actually I'm on a roll, butter me up :P
Edited by REAPER666#1553 on 11/27/2013 8:23 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 08:07 PMPosted by REAPER666
I can go on and on...actually I'm on a roll, butter me up :P


I'll butter your biscuit...to go with the gravy :P
Reply Quote
Posts: 2,184
View profile
11/27/2013 06:58 PMPosted by rockon87
I want a game where the time I put in "playing" not searching forums or 3rd parts sites actually nets me a reward...and RoS sounds like that kind of game.


You have the console version for that. How can we put sets together for zero dog, and other specialized builds if we can't trade? The RPGs I play all have some provision for trading items. For example, heyguyslol says he will quit if he can't make a good zero dog in a few months of playing RoS..

If you don't want to trade -- fine. No one forces you to. If I want to trade items why do you care?

And you have admitted to trading and buying items. So if you dislike it so much, why do you do it?

What is the point of playing in a party if you can't trade items?? Why bother?

And why have a guild if you can't trade items? None of it makes any sense to me.
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Jaetch
Better those features be late than never. Blizzard knows the game can be improved. And as a side note, bear in mind that many members of their development team are new. They weren't working on vanilla D3 originally. They were brought on board after the game was launched.


Ok fair enough, then they need to spend sometime with players that know what they are talking about, like players here in this forum, and know what would be good for that class, instead of listening to general discussions.

The WDs streaming beta are a joke in my book, they dont know what we want at all...I'ts more of a playground to them to see the new content, instead of providing some intelligent feedback that will actually help this class and benefit the WD community as a whole
Edited by REAPER666#1553 on 11/27/2013 8:55 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 08:41 PMPosted by skywalkerfx
I want a game where the time I put in "playing" not searching forums or 3rd parts sites actually nets me a reward...and RoS sounds like that kind of game.


You have the console version for that. How can we put sets together for zero dog, and other specialized builds if we can't trade? The RPGs I play all have some provision for trading items. For example, heyguyslol says he will quit if he can't make a good zero dog in a few months of playing RoS..

If you don't want to trade -- fine. No one forces you to. If I want to trade items why do you care?

And you have admitted to trading and buying items. So if you dislike it so much, why do you do it?

What is the point of playing in a party if you can't trade items?? Why bother?

And why have a guild if you can't trade items? None of it makes any sense to me.


I think this is a big problem too. How will BoA and Clans fit together and in general BoA. What purpose will Clans serve other than a friends list if everything is BoA?

Not being able to trade items and do what I please with them is ridiculous, since when is this a part of Diablo? I heard about possibly having items on a timer? Now I have to worry about trading items in time, or trading with one of three people in game. Otherwise salvage it or keep it in my great big stash until I find use for it.

I'm on the same page as skywalker here.
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 08:56 PMPosted by Tocean
Not being able to trade items and do what I please with them is ridiculous, since when is this a part of Diablo? I heard about possibly having items on a timer? Now I have to worry about trading items in time, or trading with one of three people in game. Otherwise salvage it or keep it in my great big stash until I find use for it.


I stick to my original suggestion about Clans and these talks of a trade timer:

11/27/2013 11:51 AMPosted by LordAmsa
A longer trade timer, but only between clan members might help some of the issues that have been brought up. With a prerequisite that the increased trade timer will only apply if the players have been a member of the clan for maybe a week. So this will keep us somewhat happy and still keep 3rd party sites from creeping up on Blizz's turf since players will not be able to just buy a items/gold/etc offsite, get invited to the 3rd party site's Clan for 10 minutes to make the trade.


Or just fully open up trading between Clan members only with no timers. Like a "bound on clan" system. Also maybe have a functionality where the leaders of the clan can allow open trade with other clans for a specific amount of time between all members of the clan they both lead. It'll add a deeper layer in the clan system and trade will open up deeper customization options for the non-casual players.
Casual gamers that don't want to mess with social aspects stay happy hunting their own gear, dedicated players get to trade with their clan members and Blizzard don't have to deal with 3rd party sites.
Edited by LordAmsa#1453 on 11/27/2013 9:20 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 10:00 AMPosted by vanvidd
In my eyes blizzard lacks some understanding what players want and this is because players dont know it or they have too much different opinions. WoW has so many many options to play, you can really get lost into it and every player who like this gametype can find a gem in it making it worthwhile. In diablo you have grind and currently trading, maybe brawling, thats it.


Blizzard doesn't lack understanding. They just think they know better than the players. Look at D3's development and WoW now. Blizzard essentially tells the players what they should find fun, then designs the game around that.
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 07:33 AMPosted by rockon87
I think the only reason I don't like the monthly subscription is because it made me feel like I had to play and get my moneys worth.


Ya. This contributed greatly to a WoW addiction that almost ruined my life.

That's not to say it wasn't my own fault, but it certainly hastened my descent into darkness.
Reply Quote
Sounds to me like he wants to turn D3 into League of Legends.


who's he?


the guy in the video describes an LoL type mini game. I am not interested in that type of game.
Edited by JonkZ#1210 on 11/27/2013 9:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
11/27/2013 09:51 PMPosted by JonkZ
the guy in the video describes an LoL type mini game. I am not interested in that type of game.


Yeah dont get me wrong, I think Athene is a circus clown, but this video is a very intelligent assessment of the game so far.
Reply Quote
Not to derail this thread, but doesn't he do fund raisers and actually donate them? Not sure, but if that's the case, not too bad for a circus clown :)
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]