Diablo® III

How do DHs do Crypts?

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First of all, I am not a DH, nor do I claim to know anything about this very awesome class (which is why i'm here :).

Anyway like everyone else i've been doing crypts runs A LOT lately and have been frustrated by some of the outrageous DPS requirements being thrown around. Some are justified many have no basis on anything. So I'm trying to compile a reasonable DPS guide for all the classes. But I need to know what skills and self buffs (and party bufs) DHs typically use when playing crypts.

Then I will take these skills and figure out how much damage they need to do in a party of 4 in order to basically one shot all the mobs (zombies in this case).

So, for example I've taken this rapid fire build found on the sticky:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#.cghR!.Xb!.bZZY

And can calculate that there are no self bufs, no party bufs (used in the example), and weapon damage for this skill would be 728% to a single target, 290% hits the rest of the mobs. Then I would take this and calculate the DPS needed:


(mobHP / %weaponDMG) / ( 1 + %partyBufs) = DPS needed

or

Single Target:
(2200 / 7.28) / ( 1 + 0.24 (moc) + 0.20 (varies) ) = 209k DPS

Splash Dmg:
(2200 / 2.90) / ( 1 + 0.24 (moc) + 0.20 (varies) ) = 526k DPS



Zombie health is factored from an average of 6.5m (mp10 4 party group), with one buff only character, in this case a pull monk, and 3 dpsers. So 6.5m / 3 = 2.2m.

But again, this is a pretty dumbed down version so any insight into what type of skills are best for these runs, and how the damage is applied to a big group of mobs would be a big help!

Thanks.
Your current calculations is trying to take out 1/3rd of the zombie's HP in one second right? So MoC maybe should be 48%?

RF bombardment is probably your best bet for high DPS AoE on a small area (pull monk) + ease of use. I always run archery + steady aim in crypt runs, recommend 2.001+ aps and 60+ crit chance to RF to optimizing shots per kill. MfD is optional.

Ball lightning is nice ranged aggro to use to combine with bombardment.

And of course, you want to make sure your DH can reliably deal damage to where the monk is, and has decent mobility to keep up with dashing strike.

Also keep in mind that since we are DH's, we tend to deal damage before other classes do (we attack from ranged)

Btw, there are some DH's with very low paper dps, but extremely high eDPS. (>^^)>

On average, 300k dps with archery + steady aim seems okay for the non-friendly crypt runs? (no inflated ias). If you have someone that can DPS carry, it can be lower.
Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 1/3/2014 12:38 PM PST
Well, i'll factor MoC in two ways, one is that its just on in the background (24%) the other is that its being spammed (48%). But yeah if you have a good support monk they should have it up all the time.

So with Rapidfire:Bombardment I would get:


(2200 / 4.14) / ( 1 + 0.24 (moc) + 0.20 (guiding light) + 0.20 (steady aim) ) = 324k

(2200 / 4.14) / ( 1 + 0.48 (spam moc) + 0.20 (guiding light) + 0.20 (steady aim) ) = 282k


How does APS factor into rapidfire:bombardment? 1aps = 1rf/second?

I think in a group where everyone focuses on the point the monk is pulling to, you would want the DH standing behind in order to proc steady aim. In that case it may be ok for the DH to lag behind.

You really want the WD to be out front and start bats asap. And also if you have a SNS wizard they need to get wound up as well.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10071637113#1

This was what I wrote more than 3 months ago and things has changed after countless crypt runs.

This is what I observed from the past few months experience. The fastest and most efficient xp run ever is 3 rend barbs with a WD doing Festering woods, clearing crypt and FoM, achieving more than 400m xp per hr. I am sure you know very well all the usual route. The problem is the nature of game play make it quite tense and taxing. The more casual party set up can still achieve 300m xp pr hr with Pull monk ( can be zDPS), 3 of WD/Archon. You can put DH into the mix but must retain at least 1 Wd and 1 Archon and the result may not be far off. WD is best to clear elites and of course its Locust swarm and Archon is good with its fast and powerful attack beam and for stray enemies. A 500k dps Archon will beat a 500k DH hand down.

Now back to DH set up. The most effective set up for my DH is:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WchgdR!YbX!YcZYbZ

Many times, I will replace SA with Archery because long range bombardment is just too slow vs Archon and CoB. This is very apparent when you have a good monk using Dashing Strike. I was always left behind with SA. When using Archery, I normally move along WD, in front of Archon where I will cast MfD, shoot some Bolas, cast SP and more to middle of the pack to start channeling RF. Damge lost from SA is gained back with MfD. I felt more efficient in such a way.

As for eDPS, an average DH can never beat a 200k WD and 400k Archon which is their average DPS. So, it is best to have more than 400k dps for DH to run crypt competitively.
1aps = 1rf/second?.
3 bombs per APS (the other runes are 6 arrows per aps) and it is a channel so RF is subject to Bp's and snapshot mechanics

[for Bombardment]
2.00000 == cieling @2.00aps (6 bombs/sec) aka 1 per 10 frames
2.00001 operates @2.22222 because it must create a bomb every 9 frames

taking advantage of this is a minor eDPS boost with IAS min/max
taking advantage of the channels snapshot mechanic is an incredible eDPS and eHP boost if you gear swap wisely
Edited by zoid#1554 on 1/3/2014 8:00 PM PST
Snapshot steady aim is what you want to take advantage of (and of course BBV from WD and GL from monk).

High aps is preferred to get out more shots per second. Balance of your shots per kill is important (how many shots can you get out before your target is killed) with the damage dealt per shot.

Suppose you pull out about 5 shots before a zombie dies. How can you reduce this down to 4 shots? You need to increase your DPS by ~ 25% to do this (steady aim + archery helps here). To do this on gear, it will be generally hard to do.

Alternatively, you can shoot faster (high aps).

Suppose you instead pull about 7 shots before a zombie dies, but just as fast as the previous example. To reduce this down to 6 shots requires ~16.7% more dps on gear which is more practical to upgrade than 25%.

Higher APS -> more hatred management however.

I hope this kinda makes sense.....
Then I will take these skills and figure out how much damage they need to do in a party of 4 in order to basically one shot all the mobs

This is a video game, statements like that I'd classify as harassment to poor players, beginners, high latency connection, disabled, etc. players. Everyone free to play how they want and able to, there are no measurements and requirements must be set IMHO. Again, this is a video game, be nice :)

Anyway, my tanking build for your collection, 5 offensive and 1 defensive skills http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#UcgdYX!eXb!ZcYccc

14% Grenades on Cloak + 8% Grenades on SoJ / 2.86APS / 300k sheet DPS, much more under hood.

RF used as lazy skill just to stay away and watch melee chars madness from balcony, lol
Awesome info, thanks everyone.

01/03/2014 08:55 PMPosted by Defender
This is a video game, statements like that I'd classify as harassment to poor players, beginners, high latency connection, disabled, etc. players. Everyone free to play how they want and able to, there are no measurements and requirements must be set IMHO. Again, this is a video game, be nice :)


This is EXACTLY why i'm doing this. Pretty much the only thing worth doing at this point is paragon farming. However if you've ever been on channels or pubs its difficult to get into a game without seriously inflated DPS.

I'm trying to lower the bar. I believe with 3 ppl putting DPS on a mob you can get "alarming" xp rates without 500k DH, or 600k archon.

I really think you can get 200m exp/hour with one pull monk and 3 DPS of any other class. And the DPS requirements to do so are lower than most people want to believe.
I have to say i've tried the RF build and it doesn't hold a match to the Ninja build. It's going to be a bit harder to do due to gear necessities but if you can get your SoJ and Chest to reduce your chakrams use twin Chakrams. The amount of Aoe dps this class puts out is gnarly. I've had a lot of DHs come to me about it since I run a lot of crypts. If you run with a pull monk and use valley of death along with spike trap you'll do insane dps not to mention how much you'll be helping the party out increasing damage by 12% to everything. If you're running with any other class switch up to mass contagion and your MFD will spread like wild fire, again making every enemy take 12% more damage.

Just play around with it, honestly if you have the CC you can almost perma gloom again due to the high mob density so it doesn't matter what you're doing. Just strap perfectionist on, use the boar if needed and go to town.
This is EXACTLY why i'm doing this. Pretty much the only thing worth doing at this point is paragon farming. However if you've ever been on channels or pubs its difficult to get into a game without seriously inflated DPS.


You've never even played DH have you? nope, as you've stated already ^^

we arent wiz, we arent any other class. IMO DH is the most powerful class when played right (tips hat to nyan)

we only need 300k to be relatively powerful, but it all depends on build and breakpoints. you wouldnt find me using the same skills as a 200k dh as I would when i was 400k
Edited by Crazy#2702 on 1/4/2014 5:30 AM PST
Cool, I would love to do some crypts with all DH some time. Add me in game. I'm going to be out for most of the day but i'll be back this evening (EST) and will definitely be running.

01/04/2014 05:28 AMPosted by Crazy
we only need 300k to be relatively powerful, but it all depends on build and breakpoints. you wouldnt find me using the same skills as a 200k dh as I would when i was 400k


I'm interested in this. What would you run at 200k vs 400k? Just interested in the build and what your DPS skill would be, i'll assume any breakpoints needed would be met.

Thanks.
01/04/2014 05:28 AMPosted by Crazy
we only need 300k to be relatively powerful, but it all depends on build and breakpoints. you wouldnt find me using the same skills as a 200k dh as I would when i was 400k
True dat. Some DHs do more with 150K DPS than others with 400K.
Edit: Looks squarely at Nyan and Dieoxide.
Edited by Rav1n#1381 on 1/4/2014 6:19 AM PST
01/04/2014 05:25 AMPosted by Wolfcone
I have to say i've tried the RF build and it doesn't hold a match to the Ninja build.


What's the Ninja build?
Using unlimited chakrams. I found it first from Shinobi but altered it to my own liking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f2iaPAVgJ4
If you like it better, then you should stick with it <(^^<)
I planned to, I didn't mean to offend if the RF build was somehow your doing. I know you're a legend of sorts I just find it way better for party play in crypts is all. =X
In my non-gear swap build, I prefer BL + RF combo :P

I used to use twin chakram for my 'aggro' to nuke with RF. I switched to ball lightning now instead :/
You can never go wrong with ball lightning. Hahahahaha
Just finished 5 runs with and OP team consist of Dashing Strike monk, WD and Archon. Ball Lighting is definitely a no no. Before ball lighting even reach the big pack, the contents has already been cleared by WD and Archon. I don't even have sufficient time to cast MfD Valley and just take advantage of BBV. I have to consistently keep up by vaulting into the big pack because WD will overtake me with SW and Archon AS is fast. Have to replace SA with Archery.

Really, it depends on how you farm xp and who you farm with.
At 200k damage, you instantly rule out some skills. These skills you rule out tend to be low damage, such as hungering arrow or BL. This is because they deal such a low effective damage in a higher MP that you simply won't be able to survive through lifesteal.

Another thing is play style, for example I would not try to act like a glass cannon if I knew that my damage was too low. There is a reason players like DIEoxidE can actually play high MP, and that is purely the damage aspect, not anything to do with statistic survivability at all, it's all practice.

Then we have Nyan. 'Nuff said.

At low damage, I would intentionally choose a larger eHP, because its cheaper than higher damage.
And then I would get the higher eDPS skills, such as bola, traps or rf(see breakpoints from here) and will make sure that I have about 2.02 AS

Because I find that the most effective attack speed to stun with bola, which raises my survivability by a tonne. I would use a manticore with 200k, since it is harder hitting than a calamity and can ration hatred with rapid fire. Calamity for me came after I hit 340k with manticore, and then went down to 290k with a calamity.
So at 200k, naturally I would choose manticore, personal preference at the damage bracket
Then I would gear for as much %skill damage, such as bola on quiver and trap on chest etc.
However since a low budget is given by the fact I have 200k damage, I would not use a nats chest, too expensive for good vit and dex values. So I would get an Inna chest with as much bit as possible coupled with around 140-150 dex.
I would use night stalker, perfectionist and archery, given for a high eHP tanky build

As 400k, I could go glass cannon and then more skills are open to me, multishot, hungering arrow, etc. lower effective damage skills that deal more damage because of the given increase of damage. Even BL becomes an option, since I have essentially doubled my damage capability.
Then I get a calamity so I can cast skills faster and viola, effective damage at both sides of the spectrum.

*** I would still go for the same build as 200k, purely because I'm an effective damage 5lut ;)
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