Diablo® III

Please read the ROS Feedback from these guys.

01/20/2014 07:10 PMPosted by FossilRecord
Oh please, Fossil. Members of this community and other players have been around long enough and played ROS beta enough to be able to give informed opinions on drop rates and other aspects of the expansion they find lackluster and unsatisfying at this stage of the beta.


It's rather surprising that you, of all people, missed the point...........

Was the point that we should buy the RoS xpac no matter what (as long as we can drop $40-$60 without batting an eye) and wait for it to launch and if it sucks, so be it--it's just another $40 down the drain? And while we're at it, ignore any and all feedback posted by people who are actually in the beta even if some of what they say (e.g. crafting system broken to the core), I can 100% confirm for myself from playing the PTR for many, many hours? Because that's kinda how it came across.

I've got my CE preordered already and I'm 100% too much of a Diablo fan (addict?) to return it so I think participating, giving feedback, showing what systems work and don't work in a concise manner as The Tias, Droth, and many other beta invitees and PTR players alike have done is a better course of action. If I don't tell them that reduced level req shouldn't roll on 80% of all items as one of four primary affixes, who will? This is the point of a beta test.
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*skep·ti·cal also scep·ti·cal (skpt-kl)
adj.
1. Marked by or given to doubt; questioning: a skeptical attitude; skeptical of political promises.
2. Relating to or characteristic of skeptics or skepticism.
skepti·cal·ly adv.


01/20/2014 06:00 PMPosted by FossilRecord
not to be mistaken for sinycal


which is not to be mistaken for:

cyn·i·cal
[sin-i-kuhl] Show IPA
adjective
1.
distrusting or disparaging the motives of others; like or characteristic of a cynic.
2.
showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, especially by actions that exploit the scruples of others.
3.
bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.
4.
( initial capital letter ) cynic ( def 5 ) .
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 1/20/2014 7:44 PM PST
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01/20/2014 06:10 PMPosted by Jaetch
A little bit of social interaction can be quite healthy. Isolation can drive people nuts sometimes :P


Well, my husband and I play this and have played many others together, including MMORPGs and LAN games. We also know several people in real life who used to play D3, but who have dropped it because it's just not fun for them. Right now my husband spends most of his time camping the auction house or refreshing forums while watching Netflix...

In a more perfect world, we would love to have the expansion be free-trade, at least between friends. Sometimes we don't have time to play with each other, especially with a young baby and another on the way, different work schedules, etc. But if the trade-off is terrible drop rates, we'd rather have the better drop rates. That's what the BoA is supposed to be for, but it's not working out like that right now. I think the loot drop trade is not the only incentive for people to play together. Having fun and socializing can be cool, if people actually do play together. As it stands, we don't get to play with our real life friends who bought D3, because they probably are never coming back.
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Right. BoA will not work if the drop rates pretty much give you nothing for your efforts. A comfortable drop rate is what it comes down to in the end since acquiring gear is the core of the game.
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read it all, my conclusion? still tuning! I'm convinced they will get it right; if not, they will adjust within 1-2 weeks since the outcry will be deafening ;-) people need to relax, the problems HAVE been reported and I believe it will be OK in the end...
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01/20/2014 06:00 PMPosted by FossilRecord
WOW.......

I am utterly disgusted with what I have been reading from a large portion of you all in this thread.
I am honestly feeling sick to my stomach that some otherwise intelligent members of this community are taking those guys seriously.

........ it's unfortunate that the opinions of others dictate what we do to this degree. if spending $40 is a big choice do to financial restraints then i have no qualms if the posts of those testing BETA have a strong effect on that choice.

However. I know that a lot of you are adults capable of making a $40-60 purchase with little thought of how it will impact your finances.
So grow up a little and be skeptical*, not to be mistaken for sinycal, and see for yourself how the game is on release. Make a decision how you feel about the game AFTER playing it.

YOLO

*skep·ti·cal also scep·ti·cal (skpt-kl)
adj.
1. Marked by or given to doubt; questioning: a skeptical attitude; skeptical of political promises.
2. Relating to or characteristic of skeptics or skepticism.
skepti·cal·ly adv.


$40 aint sh1t. I eat out almost every meal usually bring my GF and spend more than $40 and crap it out 30 min later. I spend $200-400 a day in diesel for my work. It's principle. reward fail get more fail.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 1/20/2014 8:59 PM PST
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01/20/2014 08:34 PMPosted by Jaetch
Right. BoA will not work if the drop rates pretty much give you nothing for your efforts. A comfortable drop rate is what it comes down to in the end since acquiring gear is the core of the game.

Totally agree. To borrow your example of someone who plays 40 min/day and someone who plays 4 hr/day; that 40 min person will probably be happy eventually putting together the optimal set of the legendaries for whatever build they want to run whereas the 4 hr/day person is going to need to find each legendary they need maybe 20 or more times til the RNG gods drop something that person considers to be up to snuff.

I've found 3 mempos in 2 years. That's not a big enough sample size to get RNG on my side at all. The difference is, I can trade for a mempo. I traded gold on the AH for my DH's mempo. How many would I have had to have drop to ensure a decent chance at getting a dex/cc one if the game was all BOA from the beginning? Way more than 3.

To progress into higher T levels, you'll need more than just the functional set, you'll need to be farming for better versions of everything. My frosties could have more vit or more cold damage. I need to farm another pair of frosties--these will not cut it for T5! (I don't actually have the new frosties, just reviving another example). But to do that you gotta have frosties drop once in a while (not 3 times a day, but sure as hell not 3 times every 2 years either).
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01/20/2014 08:50 PMPosted by DethAxe
read it all, my conclusion? still tuning! I'm convinced they will get it right; if not, they will adjust within 1-2 weeks since the outcry will be deafening ;-) people need to relax, the problems HAVE been reported and I believe it will be OK in the end...


Part of the issue Deth is that people don't want another Diablo 3 release where it feels like your still playing the Beta version. We want ROS released as a full game, not promises of future fixes and events. Especially when the public have identified the options and offered solutions to Blizzard. The issue seems to be that Blizzard wants to design a game that they like but the majority of the players don't.

Diablo 3 was suppose to have the Mystic and PVP on release originally. We ended up with the disgrace they called Brawling a year later and the Mystic, which will now cost you the price of the expansion to use.

We are tired of identifying huge issues in game and being ignored.
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01/20/2014 08:51 PMPosted by Aimless
$40 aint sh1t. I eat out almost every meal usually bring my GF and spend more than $40 and crap it out 30 min later.

Maybe for you. Not everyone is rich. And before you say you're not: you claim to spend more than $43000 a year on meals. You're rich.
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01/19/2014 02:45 PMPosted by Aimless
I just cancelled my 2 RoS preordres one for my brother one for me. Money wasnt the issue it was found money thanks to flips but I'm not supporting trash with Dark Souls 2 around the corner.

MZY -TheTias post was epic - read it way better than dorths who does his usual whining about monsters being to strong


Thanks for pointing that post out. After reading it I've also just submitted a ticket to cancel my ROS preorder.

EDIT: I linked the post and cited it as the reasoning in my ticket. :p
Edited by DonDraper#1395 on 1/21/2014 10:08 AM PST
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So, here's the long awaited response. I win the bet against Melkor that there will be a response.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11307900907?page=12#229
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Just read through the whole blue post and I'm disappointed at all the MVP's who posted after it and who all seem to ignore:

"Now with that said, the data that we have has shown us that drop rates are in the right ball park but that's not to say they are final. "

Drop rates are NOT fine, not even close to fine. I understand that you can now play Gamble 3 for legendarys and this is not available in the PTR. But if we ignore the gambling completely and focus on pure drop rates from actually farming mobs(base play of a ARPG) then its pretty obvious that the loot drops are out of sync.

With the removal of the AH and the lack of trading its going to be impossible for the average gamer to find specific game changing loot. I'm very disappointed in Travis's response and also the fact all you MVP's sucked it all up. Not trying to be offensive, just my opinion.

With all the extra's being a ROS only feature you've also just forced all players to upgrade as Diablo 3 will be so unrewarding without upgrading.

-Average gamer signing out.

Edit: I was a bit hasty on my MVP trash talk :). Looks like a lot aren't happy with the post either and are just a bit more diplomatic than me in expressing it. More to lose I maybe?
Edited by Aphraell#1269 on 1/22/2014 4:19 PM PST
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Based on that feedback and also the detailed drop rate data that we track and review on a daily basis, we lowered the drop rates to something more reasonable and closed to what we wanted for release of RoS.

This is something to worry about.

Now with that said, the data that we have has shown us that drop rates are in the right ball park but that's not to say they are final.

Also this.

A couple of other related notes, Rifts have always been intended to feel highly rewarding and we don't think they are there yet.

This speaks of hope.
Edited by Machado#1633 on 1/22/2014 3:24 PM PST
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01/22/2014 02:44 PMPosted by Jaetch
So, here's the long awaited response. I win the bet against Melkor that there will be a response.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11307900907?page=12#229
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch


You know I will admit when I'm wrong Jaetch! But...actually, I think I was very much right. My bet with you was:

Oh really? Really? How much you wanna bet that Blizzard doesn't directly respond to that? Any response to that thread will have NO direct relationship to it. They will never directly engage that much negativity. That's what my money is on.

Dude, they're challenging virtually every decision blizzard has made other than naming the XPAC, Reaper of Souls. If Blizzard agrees with TheTias or Droth - they'd have to fire their dev team. Not happening. If they disagree, they have pitchforks at their front gate - not happening. Poppa Melk said it best, "Nine times out of ten, your best course of action is no action."


I admit that the mistake I made was using the phrase “NO direct relationship”. That makes me the loser. Fine. That being said…

Let's look at Travis' response to TheTias and Droth:
01/22/2014 02:29 PMPosted by Travis Day
Hello folks,

This has been a topic of much discussion within the community so I wanted to take the time to sit down and talk to everyone about drop rates. I'll start out by saying when F&F went out we set the rates far higher than we knew was appropriate because we wanted to get as much feedback and testing on the new and revised legendary and set items as possible. Over the course of F&F the unanimous feedback both internally and from the community was that the drop rates were too high. We knew this ahead of time but we wanted testers to get their hands on as many cool things as possible while also helping us debug and, ya know, test things.

Going into our subsequent beta waves we said we wanted to start narrowing in on what the appropriate drop rates were for legendaries. We had set forth some goals and stated internally what our design intent was so we adjusted these values to reflect a more practical farming environment. As a general rule people won't speak up if you being too rewarding, usually only a handful of people in a crowd will vocalize that "things may be a bit too high" in terms of drop rate. So when the entirety of our player base and internal team were swarming us with this feedback we knew the drop rates were actually FAR too high. Based on that feedback and also the detailed drop rate data that we track and review on a daily basis, we lowered the drop rates to something more reasonable and closed to what we wanted for release of RoS. For the record, I literally told people internally that I actively wanted to hear the feedback that drop rates were too low. We decisively found where too high was, we needed to find the lower bounds of reasonable so that we could narrow in on a place that would be best for the game.

Now with that said, the data that we have has shown us that drop rates are in the right ball park but that's not to say they are final. A big piece of the pie that was missing was that we always intended for Kadala to be able to generate legendary items. More specifically she was intended to help give players more direct control over their ability to find specific items they were after. Not to the tune of "I want X item so I buy it" but we wanted players to have a degree of control by saying "Man I really want X helm, so I'll spend all my Blood Shards buying helms and try to get the one I'm after eventually". The environment that you have all been playing in has been missing this key piece of the puzzle for quite some time. When we are talking about the overall income of legendary items and finding a good pace for them Kadala has always been intended to factor into this. We are very actively tracking data and adjustments will be made to narrow in more as we proceed. However since obviously you all haven't had the insight into these conversations I'm here to say that you've only been seeing a piece of the pie and with the latest patch should now be seeing the full picture.

A couple of other related notes, Rifts have always been intended to feel highly rewarding and we don't think they are there yet. We want the obvious answer when someone asks "Whats the most rewarding thing I can kill with the time I have?" to be Rifts, this is part of why access to them is restricted by keys, they are meant to be AWESOME!. We have a plan changed that I'll be hotfixing in hopefully today or tomorrow to add a reasonably large number of Blood Shards to the loot run boss but more importantly to give him a chance to drop Forgotten Souls. One of the problems that has been expressed here is how legendary and rares compare, barring the obviously build changing ones. A large part of the reason that players sometimes have a hard time replacing a rare with a legendary that should be an upgrade is because, generally, you are comparing rares that have been enchanted many times over to a stock legendary. We want the act of enchanting legendaries to have some degree of investment but what you are seeing in the beta is too much. In addition to being able to use the, soon to be acquired, crafting mats to enchant your legendary items it will also allow everyone a reasonable amount more access to the crafting legendaries.

Lastly on the topic of split farming, this is very clearly not how we want players to play the game. We know of the problems it causes as well as the reasons its occurring and are actively discussing ways to address the problem. While we love coop and we want players to enjoy playing the game together, the right answer should obviously not be "Lets play coop and all go solo in the game!". I'm walking into a meeting as soon as I post this to discuss the issue and possible solutions.

Hopefully this helps clear the air some and I'll touch back in later to answer more questions.


So here we have feedback regarding loot drops (which I grant you was what you have been saying is the 'heart of the problem' all along). We have feedback regarding gambling - though there's nothing new to his post that we didn't already know. We have feedback regarding split farming, and and there is feedback regarding Rifts.

What’s missing?

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Monster Scaling...or is it Monsters on a Scale?
(Regarding ungodly HP to monster ratios - also mentioning the ludicrous notion that people would want higher density at these current ratios)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Affixes and Six Degrees of Separation (of Primary and Secondary affixes)
(Regarding the lack of thought that went into forcing 4 primaries and 2 secondaries)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
The Elephant in the Room, or RoS is a Republican
(Regarding CHD as the single "problem" of DPS)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Affixes 2: Electric Boogaloo
(Regarding how utility and specific stats can only roll outside of their "native slot" in particular, specific, limited items)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Movement Speed, Where Art Thou, or Snail Males and Females: Part Deux
(Regarding how slow we move even at max MS)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Crowd Control, or Can You Just Pepper Spray Me and Get It Overwith?
(Regarding just how many mechanics are in place in ROS that are unavoidable, or how you avoid them is limited way beyond the cast rate of them)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Stuck Between a Hard Rock Cafe and Melrose Place
(Regarding unavoidable damage and its copious forms)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Witch...crafting, or Salem Vi
(Regarding crafting and its 'abysmal' state - this section really can be broken into 3)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Salvage Rights...Or Is It Salvage Rites?
(Really fits in with above)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Arrested Development
(Regarding a lack of feedback from developers - I am willing to concede that Travis Day is touching on this one by even responding..I guess...)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Alt-ernate Realities
(Regarding Loot 2.0 and your inability to farm for an alternate character - I found this section to be the most interesting, btw)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Get Smart Drops The Ball
(Regarding really just more of above, though the notion that I will "never" drop a Strength Ring for my follower if I don't run a strength class is a valid point)

01/18/2014 07:01 PMPosted by TheTias
Intruder Alert! Intruder Alert! or Ewww...My Screen Is All GUI!
(Regarding screen clutter from messages - lol - can't believe this actually made his list)

Granted, I don’t expect T.D to sit down and cater to TheTias…or do I? He is collectively representing a large percentage of all known gripes in ROS. Any research into the player base will tell T.D that this guy is hitting points…ALL of them. So that means T.D’s response covers approximately 23.5% of TheTias’ post. I’m not going through the trouble of looking at Droth’s as well.

I lose the bet?
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Tie game with 1:1 odds. Nothing happened :P

They did respond to address a few points and they did engage, but they did not answer everything, which is sort of expected since I doubt there are concrete answers to anything right now.

@Aph - I never said it was fine. I just said thanks for letting people know instead of having everyone sitting around and speculating what's the deal.
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Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
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Twitter: @Jaetch
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01/22/2014 03:31 PMPosted by Jaetch
@Aph - I never said it was fine. I just said thanks for letting people know instead of having everyone sitting around and speculating what's the deal.


:) I did generalise! I did read your :

"I'll mull over the other parts of the response for now."

I'm just pretty annoyed at their response and as Melkor mentioned what they responded too. Its just that was my own major concern, though I do agree with nearly all the others raised as well. But Diablo is a loot based game and it has some of the best gameplay and graphics I've ever seen. But if you limit how hard it is to get loot, it destroys the whole game for playing over any length of time after completing the story.

How to make Diablo fun again: game changing loot - tick, loot actually dropping - cross.
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He might as well have said:

"everything's fine guys ... Or is it ?"
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MVP - Diablo III
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It just comes down to the drop rates. Everything else can be addressed as time goes on and players gear up. Whether it's difficulty levels or end-game content, whatever, it just starts with acquiring gear and progressing.

I mean, if you take a look at the responses that are churning out as I'm typing this, people are rather upset now that it's confirmed drop rates are just about right, in terms of what the devs feel. However, at least we know that it's not the typical extremes Blizzard is testing right now. They actually feel drop rates are fine. Now we're onto the next step: to see if the devs are right or if the players are right.

Actually... who's our best investigator here? I'd like someone to go find non-troll posts about how drop rates are totally fine right now. Go find a random player who earnestly believes right now, at this moment in the current Beta/PTR build, that they love the drop rates.
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 1/22/2014 3:41 PM PST
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My solution:

Increase Legendary drop rates, increase Forgotton Souls required to use the Mystic for Enchanting to keep a balance. Not add Forgotten Souls to Rift bosses.

I want more legendarys so I mighty actually find the one I want/need. Not be able to Enchant more of the crappy ones I do find.
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I love TheTias;

"I'm going to ask you a very simple question, and I really hope you take it to heart, since a lot is riding on the success or failure of this expansion: If RoS as is makes your players as unhappy and bitter as they've been and the majority are telling you it feels worse than on Live, how is it then that you can even begin to tell us with a straight face that how it is now is what you consider "in the ballpark" for what it should be on any front?"
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