Diablo® III

Travis Day on drop rates

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01/23/2014 11:47 AMPosted by Rolly
The only way to extend the game is to have bad drop rates because of their stupid decision to simplify the talent system. It's also why the itemization is so bad,
You never get a drop that makes you think "Man I gotta roll a character so I can build it this way"

I mean for crying out loud Blizzard thinks getting drops 10-15 levels below your current level is "fun".

When is the last time in D3 you got a drop that you saved so you could equip it when you reached it's level?

This is a company that REMOVED LOOT DROPS FROM INSTANCED CONTENT in their other game because they said it was slowing players down. /doublefacepalm


Werd another one who gets it.
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Correct if i am wrong, but that means you hardly can obtain upgrades without RoS anymore? Well time to deinstall D3 and to move on since Travis my dear you not gonna force me to buy your stuff.
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Reposting my thought's on this whole thing:

When Travis Day stated that people were upset and complaining about the higher drop rates in F&F beta.

Travis Day:

"Over the course of F&F the unanimous feedback both internally and from the community was that the drop rates were too high."

"As a general rule people won't speak up if you being too rewarding, usually only a handful of people in a crowd will vocalize that "things may be a bit too high" in terms of drop rate."

"So when the entirety of our player base and internal team were swarming us with this feedback we knew the drop rates were actually FAR too high."

"For the record, I literally told people internally that I actively wanted to hear the feedback that drop rates were too low. We decisively found where too high was, we needed to find the lower bounds of reasonable so that we could narrow in on a place that would be best for the game. "

So from what I read and these few quotes we can take a few things :

First he say a "handful of people were vocalizing."
Second he say's " the entirety of our player base"
Third "we decisively"

Over all you can not have a "handful of people were vocalizing." which get interpreted as " the entirety of our player base" complaining to "we" meaning the Blizz in house testers/Dev team.

I try to read the forum's at least once a day before I head off to work and my impression had been the drops rates were a little high but over all people were enjoying it and God forbid actually having fun in the item grind.

IMHO,Simply put,Some where along the way something has been miss-communicated between the feedback in the forum's and the Dev team. They took lack of communication from the player base as a whole to mean "things may be a bit too high" Instead of the lack of communication to mean people are actually playing the game because it's fun and not posting in the forum's because it's a lot more entertaining than the game.
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Gawddang people have no concept of Beta. And all of you throwing fits won't be happy no matter what Blizzard does. Do I think the game has some issues? Of course. Am I running around screaming about stuff that I haven't even played with yet? No.
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01/23/2014 12:13 PMPosted by ArcticShadow
Gawddang people have no concept of Beta. And all of you throwing fits won't be happy no matter what Blizzard does. Do I think the game has some issues? Of course. Am I running around screaming about stuff that I haven't even played with yet? No.

Uhm.
Beta is the right time to complain...
Complaining after launch is complaining a bit too late :P

It is Blizzards job to figure out what they consider relevant in all the complaining.
But people sure as hell should use a beta as an excuse for complaining (not that people would need an excuse of course).
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The legend drop rate in vanilla seems decent enough, why not keep the same drop rate into ROS? - its not exactly rocket science...
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And Travis spoke once more to the peasants.
1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don't want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.

2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn't been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren't exactly where we want them right now and it's very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be.


Well, that was fast!
An improvement for sure.

Now go and answer those 500 other questions about RoS that is not about droprates!
Please?
Edited by Shadout#2849 on 1/23/2014 12:24 PM PST
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01/23/2014 12:19 PMPosted by HeMan
The legend drop rate in vanilla seems decent enough, why not keep the same drop rate into ROS? - its not exactly rocket science...


You're joking right? It sucks in live. Granted with smart drops and all drops will be better even with the same rate, but with no AH to get gear, it has to be easier to get gear then now. And they know this.

(And of course Travis Day just posted they are doubling drop rates)
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There aare two droprates tbh.

1. Legendary droprate; what people are mostly complaining about right now.

2. "Good loot" droprate.

Legendaries drop relatively often in D3 when you get into high MP and have good gear.
Most of them are terrible though.

The biggest droprate increase in RoS is in the quality.
Smart drops (as silly a system that is) and especially the mystic increases the quality of drops. Variation in how high and low stats can roll also increase quality.

So it makes sense that the legendary droprate itself might be the same, or even lowered, in RoS.
As long as the droprate of actually useful drops are increasing.

Of course there can be a design issue in only rarely giving out legendaries, even if those legendaries have a high chance to be good. Going 40 hours between a legendary would be boring, even if each legendary was awesome.
So it is a balance act. And certainly not an easy one.

Plenty of people have argued that this is one of the design issues that Runes and Charms filled in D2. The "smaller" drops that could fill the space in between the good gear drops.
It is a good point.
Crafting materials in RoS might try to fill some of the same room, but arguably, finding a charm that might be instantly useful, is more interesting and rewarding than finding yet another crafting material.
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01/23/2014 12:10 PMPosted by Agmo
Reposting my thought's on this whole thing:

When Travis Day stated that people were upset and complaining about the higher drop rates in F&F beta.

Travis Day:

"Over the course of F&F the unanimous feedback both internally and from the community was that the drop rates were too high."

"As a general rule people won't speak up if you being too rewarding, usually only a handful of people in a crowd will vocalize that "things may be a bit too high" in terms of drop rate."

"So when the entirety of our player base and internal team were swarming us with this feedback we knew the drop rates were actually FAR too high."

"For the record, I literally told people internally that I actively wanted to hear the feedback that drop rates were too low. We decisively found where too high was, we needed to find the lower bounds of reasonable so that we could narrow in on a place that would be best for the game. "

So from what I read and these few quotes we can take a few things :

First he say a "handful of people were vocalizing."


This is why I keep saying that game developers should stop this whole "Talk to the community" crap and go back to making games the way they used to when games were good; Get an idea, make the game, release it, and see how it does.

Why do I say this? Because the OP makes this long post detailing what Travis said, and then with the very first conclusion he makes, he shows that he did not understand Travis.

What Travis wrote: ""As a general rule people won't speak up if you being too rewarding, usually only a handful of people in a crowd will vocalize that "things may be a bit too high" in terms of drop rate. So when the entirety of our player base and internal team were swarming us with this feedback we knew the drop rates were actually FAR too high."

OP's 1st Conclusion: First he say a "handful of people were vocalizing."

Nope. He said (paraphrasing) "When you're giving away too much loot, it's rare that people will speak up...usually only a handful of people in the crowd would. But we didn't have that problem because everyone was telling us it was too high.

But the OP misunderstood that, and premised his entire post on that misunderstanding and well...it went downhill after that.

Note: I'm not bashing you per se, OP...I just wish people would read things for themselves and then try to understand them before coming here and puking all over the forums. Don't rely on the perpetual hate machine. They just feed themselves with their own posts and make things worse and worse without actually understanding anything.
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01/23/2014 07:17 AMPosted by Cozi
I'm sorry but this thread is a testament to the fact that people will always believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts; and they will read into things the way they want to.

Travis Day goes on to say in his posts that their goal is to have 1 legendary drop every 2 hours (1 legendary drop every 1.5 hours for those who can farm higher difficulties efficiently). That is their goal, stated explicitly. This rate does not factor in the gambling system, and it only considers drops. He also stated that they've implemented a system in which it would be literally impossible to go 10+ hours farming without a legendary drop, because the system now has a timer that rolls and resets from your last legendary drop and steadily increases the chances for you to find a dropped legendary after a while.

This thread is a perfect example of how people will take a given text and see in it only what they want to see.

Now I'm not saying that people who are complaining about Travis' posts want the game to be bad; I'm saying they already just hate the development team so much that they would rather hate the development team and insist that they are always wrong than admit that some of the things they're doing are changes for the better. Because really, 1 legendary drop every 2 hours? How much more do you want? Any more and finding legendaries would just become very mundane. Diamonds are only valuable because they are rare.

EDIT: HTML codes.


Yeah, this is it. It would have shocked me at one point, but people made up their minds a long time ago that they hated the development team, and nothing is going to change that. This is why they will never be catered to again, because they can't be pleased. It's the entire reason for PoE's success, people hate the development team so much they want to congregate in a game designed around hating the D3 development team.
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A legendary every 2 hours seems awesome considering that definitely isn't happening for me on live at all. I could play all day and see maybe one legendary in a low MP range.

So that is nice in addtion to the improved loot system with better itemization that will likely continued to be tweaked util they feel it is in a good place.
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01/23/2014 12:58 PMPosted by Hippopotamus
01/23/2014 07:17 AMPosted by Cozi
I'm sorry but this thread is a testament to the fact that people will always believe what they want to believe, regardless of the facts; and they will read into things the way they want to.

Travis Day goes on to say in his posts that their goal is to have 1 legendary drop every 2 hours (1 legendary drop every 1.5 hours for those who can farm higher difficulties efficiently). That is their goal, stated explicitly. This rate does not factor in the gambling system, and it only considers drops. He also stated that they've implemented a system in which it would be literally impossible to go 10+ hours farming without a legendary drop, because the system now has a timer that rolls and resets from your last legendary drop and steadily increases the chances for you to find a dropped legendary after a while.

This thread is a perfect example of how people will take a given text and see in it only what they want to see.

Now I'm not saying that people who are complaining about Travis' posts want the game to be bad; I'm saying they already just hate the development team so much that they would rather hate the development team and insist that they are always wrong than admit that some of the things they're doing are changes for the better. Because really, 1 legendary drop every 2 hours? How much more do you want? Any more and finding legendaries would just become very mundane. Diamonds are only valuable because they are rare.

EDIT: HTML codes.


Yeah, this is it. It would have shocked me at one point, but people made up their minds a long time ago that they hated the development team, and nothing is going to change that. This is why they will never be catered to again, because they can't be pleased. It's the entire reason for PoE's success, people hate the development team so much they want to congregate in a game designed around hating the D3 development team.


Yup. A lot of this isn't about improving the game anymore, it's about the disgruntled players wanting to punish Blizzard.
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01/23/2014 12:13 PMPosted by ArcticShadow
Gawddang people have no concept of Beta. And all of you throwing fits won't be happy no matter what Blizzard does. Do I think the game has some issues? Of course. Am I running around screaming about stuff that I haven't even played with yet? No.

A beta with less than two months to release isn't a platform to muck around with wacky ideas and ridiculously out of tuned mechanics that will never see the light of day, it's to test that the ideas you do have and plan on release, is working.

It shouldn't even be a beta, we should be reviewing release candidates at this point and as a matter of fact, we are at least nearing that stage when Travis is talking about things being 'in the ballpark'.
Edited by Vresiberba#2940 on 1/23/2014 2:06 PM PST
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Wow, this guy is even worse than "f that loser" chris.
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LOL drop rates are 1% of the problem.

.


agree

The problem of diablo 3 is the lack of competitiveness between players and not drops.

We need ladder season, PVP and better reward for high paragons levels.

With the BOA system (and without trade and AH) we can take days, maybe weeks, to have a real improvement in our characters, even the next paragon level can take 2 entire days to be reached (ppl like kingkongor with 260+ paragon level, took about two day playing many hours by day to reach a new level ) . So whats the point to play so much for nothing.

A new paragon level system reward could mitigate this felling, for exemple

1 point for level 1-100 paragon
3 points for level101 200 paragon
10 points for level 201 - 300 paragon
20 points for level 301 - 400 paragon

And allow new stats for paragons level, actualy I think we should be able to improve all stats in game with paragon points.

This way you get a 100% chance reward for hours of playing without changes in the drop system, And a level 261 paragon character is substantially more powerful than the 260 paragon character.
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If they actually hotfix the double legendary drop rate into the PTR i will re-import and start playing again. Kinda excited to hopefully get some drops for once.
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"1. Reduce the chance for Kadala to give legendary items. We have a lot of solutions to the split farming problem but they are going to take a little time to be put in place and in the mean time we don't want peoples feedback to be completely skewed based on her rewards. This reduction will be revisited once we fix all the split farming issues.

2. Double the legendary drop rate. Your feedback hasn't been falling on deaf ears, and much discussion and deliberation has gone into it. We know that drop rates aren't exactly where we want them right now and it's very important to us to get as much feedback as possible during our beta. We are going to adjust the legendary drop rates via hotfix so that you guys have as much time as possible to test and give us feedback on how the changes feel, also more time for us to compile data and get RoS to be the best it can be."

Travis just said this like an hour ago............

"Six times faster than the current PTR/Beta build. Sorry for not clarifying sooner! It's a little hard to compare this system to the live environment because in the new system, you can surpass Paragon 100. As I mentioned before, it's much easier to notice the increase in leveling speed the higher Paragon level you attain."

Here's another quote from some other blue post a few hours ago. So six times faster paragon and double the legendary drops at least means they understand what direction they need to be going in.
Edited by vardon098#1440 on 1/23/2014 1:50 PM PST
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01/23/2014 12:10 PMPosted by Agmo


IMHO,Simply put,Some where along the way something has been miss-communicated between the feedback in the forum's and the Dev team.


I think the biggest problem is they heavily weight feedback from a few specific folks that do not play the game as average people do. That is why we get insane decisions like crappy drops, no trading, nerfing the fun (and powerful) builds, baddies that are more annoying than challenging....

Intentionally designing a game that is not fun to play and breaking builds that a lot of people enjoy playing just does not make any sense.
Edited by adm0ni#1887 on 1/23/2014 2:03 PM PST
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