Diablo® III

wiz needs dh help

Yeah yeah, wrong forum

Buy dh sub forum is dead and I usually post here anyways so sue me (jk don't actually sue me plz)

Tldr: tell me how to play dh. I have come to the conclusion that this is not something I can figure out by trial and error anymore, and "learning" to play a real wiz class (cm) was an incredibly rewarding experience which I wish to do the same for my weakest class; dh

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11551275014
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your tl:dr is longer than the rest of your post..combined...x2.... 0_o

I'm sure someone here can sort you out.
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 1/30/2014 9:49 AM PST
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MVP - Diablo III
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Switch to Shadow Power - Gloom.

Replace Vengeance for Night Stalker.

Kill both your rings (worthless) and your bracers (worthless) and replace them with ones with high crit chance (up to 6%). Add at least dex and high CD to your rings. Add high dex, vit, AR to bracers. Get crit chance on your helm.

DHs are blessed with more build diversity.

Here's what I use (generic Rapid Fire build): http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#WcgdRV!ZeX!acYbZc

Generic DPS stats. Just get them everywhere. In case you're wondering what those stats are: high weapon damage, average damage (jewelry), high crit chance, crit damage, attack speed, dexterity.

If you don't want to get one-shot on higher difficulties, then you'll have to tack on some more AR and armor. Gloom can save you so much, but one mistake means restart at the checkpoint. If you want the cushion to be able to make mistakes here and there, be prepared to spend a lot more.

Profile: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Jaetch-1861/hero/11763148

It's fine if you can't get higher stats. You just have to get the right stats to start and work from there.

If you want to learn how to play a Rapid Fire DH, I really suggest searching the DH forum. Basic tip is to pop Gloom before starting up RF. That way you can snapshot the life steal effect from Gloom to continue sustaining your health while channeling RF. As soon as you let go of the channel, you lose the snapshotted effects and you'll have to reactivate Gloom. Snapshotting 101.
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch
Edited by Jaetch#1861 on 1/30/2014 9:54 AM PST
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01/30/2014 09:42 AMPosted by Larry
tell me how to play dh

Pay twice as much for items and play on a lower MP. Simple.

:(
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Ty jaetch!

Got a good template to follow when I get home
(Been playing my dh in public games while waiting for my mp friends to log on to play my wizard with)

That's why I like this forum lol you guys are helpful and always on. The only suggestion I got so far in dh is to reroll as monk lol
Edited by Larry#1370 on 1/30/2014 10:28 AM PST
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01/30/2014 09:42 AMPosted by Larry
Tldr: tell me how to play dh.


Take best dex gear from DH and make a monk.
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P.s. 1 little question about shadow power gloom (I like your overall suggestion more than the dh forum one since its less overall change)

I currently like shadow power as a twofold HP/hatred recharger; how do I off set that hatred recharger when I use gloom instead? Any particular items? Should I not use a quiver to keep attack speed as low as possible to maximize rapid fire?
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Use the bat, it increases your hate regen and its pretty awesome, and as said before use gloom, its night and day how much more you can survive.
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01/30/2014 01:37 PMPosted by Larry
P.s. 1 little question about shadow power gloom (I like your overall suggestion more than the dh forum one since its less overall change)

I currently like shadow power as a twofold HP/hatred recharger; how do I off set that hatred recharger when I use gloom instead? Any particular items? Should I not use a quiver to keep attack speed as low as possible to maximize rapid fire?

Step 1: Hit Gloom
Step 2: Start channeling Rapid Fire
Step 3: When low on hatred, use Preparation - Punishment
Step 4: Continue channeling Rapid Fire

Requirements: Night Stalker, high critical hit chance

Adjustments:

Step 2b: Use Smokescreen or Vault to evade ground effects or crowd control
Step 2c: Repeat Steps 1 and 2, then skip to Step 3

Step 3b: If out of discipline to use Preparation - Punishment, hit Gloom and rely on generators such as Bola Shot, Grenades, etc.
Step 3c: Right before Gloom expires, resume channeling Rapid Fire

Requirements: Night Stalker, high critical hit chance
________________________________________________
Diablo III MVP | Forever a Wizard
Archon Video Guide: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9793089550
YouTube Channel: http://youtube.com/Jae7ch
Twitter: @Jaetch
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01/30/2014 01:46 PMPosted by Sal
Use the bat, it increases your hate regen and its pretty awesome, and as said before use gloom, its night and day how much more you can survive.


Sounds good, thanks again!

Will start working on getting my dh up to spec for low MP and such while waiting for my high mp buddies. Think I have a good general idea of how to get started when I log on later
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Larry, I know how you feel.. I took my DH out of mothballs a couple weeks ago, and had the same trouble getting started.

In addition to the great advice given above, check out Nyan's build service thread. He spells out everything you'd care to know about effectively gearing/playing a dh.

I'll see if I can find a link to his thread here and edit it in in a sec...

Edit: here ya go: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10261776447

There is literally a *ton* of information in that thread. it's long, long... even longer. And worth every minute spent reading it. Huge props to Nyan for putting it together.
Edited by Phlier#1826 on 1/30/2014 1:58 PM PST
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ty phlier! that looks quite useful and I will certainly give it a read when I get home.

It's times like these i kinda wish i had a multi monitor setup at home like I do at work so I could d3/forum(guide) simultaneously but I can't complain too much since I got a nice big wall mounted 54in tv as a monitor in my home office which is great for games and stuff but kinda still have to alt-tab to the forum sometimes while playing lol

I KNEW I had to be doing something horribly wrong with my DH with the amount of gold and gear I had been throwing at the problem to pretty lackluster results compared to how fun and easy it was to plow through the training portions (normal-hell(10) & inferno(0)) with wiz and barb; and ending up with some really weird stats like 60k dps to 75k hp and ~250ish AR across the board

I guess the next "big question" is WHY I was so bad at DH but who knows lol. I don't consider myself to be a particularly stupid person or anything and I do play a fair amount of computer games and have for years; just couldn't get DH through my head :p
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Larry, try to add CC to the helm and get the 4th Nat's piece for the 20 disc bonus.
The more you start with the longer it lasts.
Use the bat.
Upgrade the gems as you can.
Check my DH for reference is you wish,
Good luck and Nyan is a big help.
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ty for all the tips guys! I made a few changes last night to my DH, but spent most of my playtime on wiz doing higher MP runs and some ubers with my buddies

in regard to DH;

I tried out (per Jaetch's suggestion)
LM.Bolo(Volatile)
RM.Rapidfire(Bombard)

1.Vault(Tumble)
2.ShadowPower(Gloom) [I kept these two in the order I had them in since I was used to 1 for movement/2 for heal]
3.Valley of Death
4.Bat

and the passives the same

I didn't really get the chance to play around with gearing choices too much as I kinda swapped to the new skillset, got a little feel for it and then my other friends got online so I went to do higher MP wizard stuff with them; but I think I know what to shop for now.

First of all; WOW the bat is terrific! that kind of passive hatred regen is exactly what I was using the shadowpower rune for previously and this kinda frees it up for that handy gloom damage reduction and lets me have increased regen all the time. great skill.

I switched the rapidfire rune to high velocity because I was kind of having trouble hitting things with bombardment due to the 'slow' ish projectile speed kind of made me feel like I way trying to play some combination of angry-birds/missile defense with leading targets; but I did like the idea of bombardment being also an AoE as well as high-damage attack, and I think the high velocity penetration kinda emulates that to some extent and have been liking that so far

Finally; in regards to the valley of death thing; I don't think I understand how to use it correctly or I end up not really using it that often; so I switched back to one of the turret things, but would be absolutely willing to give the mark skill another shot if I can get a little explanation of how to use it properly; as I DO see quite a few good DH's who I group up with for high MP stuff with my wiz using that skill, but I just can't seem to use it right or end up forgetting to use it in a hectic battle.

Thanks again for all the advice; gonna put some time into actual shopping for my DH this friday/weekend
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01/30/2014 10:11 AMPosted by mzy
Pay twice as much for items and play on a lower MP. Simple.


I wouldn't say that. My baby girl was way cheaper than my wiz, and plays MP10 fairly well.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Machado-1633/hero/28453583

01/30/2014 10:30 AMPosted by jenpeezey
Take best dex gear from DH and make a monk.

True story. With the same equipment, monk fares better than DH's in general. But my personal experience is that both monks and barbs are boring. Please take note on PERSONAL experience.

01/30/2014 01:56 PMPosted by Phlier
Huge props to Nyan for putting it together.

Also, second this. This guy (Nyan) usually helps a lot os players there, myself included. You only have to send some hugs to him. (Copy & Paste this: (>^.^)> )

My 2 cents: There is usually 2 ways of playing DH's: Hit hard slower (with a manticore, usually) or hit faster but lighter (calamity). I do have both weapons and all DHs playstyles takes advantage of huges critical chance and critical damage. I prefer the high speed one (calamity), but in the end that's a personal preference. I do more damage with the manticore, but I see DH's as those squirrels that are not allowed to drink coffee, so they should be fast. :)
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<(^^<)

I actually need to update my thread. There are some important information I forgot to mention in there....I just gotta be reminded to update it :D
Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 2/1/2014 1:18 AM PST
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Can do.

Nyan, don't forget to update it!
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When I saw the post and saw people replied in the thread, I thought he already got the help he needed so I didn't bother to look.
I was completely wrong when I re-read it. lol. I need to slap those players in there. *slap*

For now, I'll ignore upgrading your gear and focus on your skills (which is influenced by gear).
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01/30/2014 07:29 AMPosted by Larry
I need some drill-sergeant style direction for my DH; please do not direct me to some thread and tell me to pick an official build

I understand you want to get used to the DH in general. There is no clear path of what to use on your DH other than perhaps shadow power. Rapid fire is a route many players take, because it is easy to use, and has a nice way to take advantage of 'snapshot' mechanics.

Details on this are found here for 1.08 (and is kinda interesting~)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/9792849391#1
Most important thing to take advantage of is the life steal and damage snapshot.

Snapshotting applies to ALL skills not just rapid fire or strafe. The only differences with rapid fire and strafe is that it snapshots on the initial cast, and lasts the entire duration of channelling (can be super abused with Nyan stuff...)
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Your DH should have some sort of execution. Meaning that you should have some sequence of steps that your build does, kind of like you have a plan behind it. You should an idea why your build works for you, and be able to identify its strengths and weaknesses. The execution should include:
  • How are you sustaining yourself
  • Mobility
  • Can be viewed as optional
  • GTFO situations
  • Resource management
  • How you are dealing damage
  • Many of these are also effected by gear.
  • attack speed
  • crit chance
  • night stalker proc if you using it
  • max discipline
  • hatred regen
  • For example rapid fire bombardment naturally has a high tick frequency. So you don't need high attack speed to put it out good number of ticks/second. As well, you will be using less resources to sustain rapid fire.

    But if you switch to bola/spike trap, you won't have as good of a tick frequency compared to bombardment. To make up for it, you need more attack speed for this kind of build for damage sustain, resource sustain (night stalker proc), and survivability sustain (high tick frequency implies more stable health returns).

    That's one of the main reasons why people say Manticore is better for bombardment, and calamity is better for bola/spike traps, just because of the attack speed. This is should I never mentioned on my thread which I probably should have :/

    On the other hand, both these builds have a major flaw which is overshadowed on the high monster power, and that is it lacks any form of instant damage. All the damage dealt is delayed. On a higher monster health pool, this can be overshadowed because it takes longer to kill monsters in the first place.

    Some important details of the differences between high attack speed and low attack speed I put in this thread if you want to take a read.

    I literally just created this thread btw...
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11582278359

    If you plan on experimenting with different builds, I recommend to get a cheap calamity to also test out.
    ************
    So you got all this information to keep in mind. I still haven't told you a single thing on what to do on your DH yet. Why?

    DH has that kind of freedom~ I don't want to tell someone to do something that they might not like~

    If your plan on using a non-bombardment rune for RF, I recommend to slot in a heavy damage AoE hatred spender such as spike traps. Damage from this can also be increased from the cloak This maybe a bit heavy on your hatred, so you could try a hatred regen cloak.

    You may want to consider using full natalya's set if you already have most of the pieces for it.

    You may also want to take a look at some of the RF breakpoints here for optimizing your attack speed.
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/10261776447?page=1#5

    Optimizing your attack speed is good because it can give you an idea on what you want to focus on your gear.

    Overall, your DH needs a complete makeover ^.^
    ************
    If you want some gearing advice, give a hug and a budget and I'll see what I can do (>^^)>
    Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 2/2/2014 8:47 AM PST
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    02/02/2014 12:25 AMPosted by VocaloidNyan
    9.50 hatred reged rounds down to 9 hatred regen
    9.51 hatred regen rounds up to 10 hatred regen

    How certain are you of this? I just tested this and did not see the big jump in regen rate that I would expect to see if it were rounded.

    Method: 150 max Hatred, go from full to 'need more hatred' with Strafe. Measured time taken until full again.

    Data:

    6.49 H/s: 23.7 s
    6.5 H/s: 23.1 s
    6.52 H/s: 22.6 s
    Edited by mzy#1101 on 2/2/2014 5:28 AM PST
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    I'm pretty sure one of my friends tested it to be true~

    Maybe I should test it ....

    Wow you seem to be correct! Thanks to telling me! Now I need to apologize for telling lies to the DH's! lol
    Edited by VocaloidNyan#1582 on 2/2/2014 8:45 AM PST
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