Get the Desktop App for Battle.net Now
- All your games in 1 place
- Log in once
- Automatic game updates
We'll have to wait and see. Keep in mind that character death, meteor dropping, and revival @ corpse all already exist so it's not like they are reinventing the Space Shuttle here. I'd be more surprised if it did the exact same thing as UA because UA doesn't drop meteors ;P
What if it stacks? Would that change your opinion? In all honesty, when Eciton posted the 4 pc. and 6 pc. bonuses, my heart sank a little. These bonuses seemed kinda weak to me. Not just directed at Malakai, anyone with a wiz, what do you guys think about specifically the fiery explosion proc?
Well, if you mean wiz set, I'd say no. But there could be elemental themed sets usable by all classes.
Class Restricted Item Sets
It was reading that post by Nevalistis that got me interested in this set so I made this thread and now many wizzies know more about this set than before. On top of that, we can get some discussion going about the 4 pc. and 6 pc. bonuses in particular and Pie or Jae can force feed it to the CMs. Also, big LOL, I just noticed the Bottomless Potion of Kulle-Aid.
It's 60% weapon damage per second right now, and only after you kill a mob, and only for 5 seconds. Even if it stacks it's absolutely pathetic. Compare it to Paux Faulds, which is just one Legendary (pants) and they do 319% weapon per second for 10 seconds when 3 or more mobs get close to you. Or compare to just Moonlight Ward, which does 270% weapon damage to everything around you per orb (4 orbs).
There are a lot of single Legendaries whose affix completely blows away the 6p bonus on the Phoenix set. Unless the pieces on this set can roll a lot higher than normal stats and/or are able to roll as 6 primaries, no one's gonna bother with it in it's current state. Maybe 2 pieces for the Int bonus, but that's about it.
The 4p bonus is even worse, (unless it works on Hardcore mode) because there's really no penalty for dying anymore since you can just rez at your corpse. And even if the Meteor does a ton of damage (if it even does), it's on a 5 minute cooldown. Who knows, though? Maybe when you get rez'ed you come back as a Phoenix god and do 500% increased Fire damage for the next 2 minutes while Meteors rain down hell around you or something crazy like that.
I absolutely love these items. I'm using both on the same wiz right now. Although mine do different amounts of damage. My MLW does 277%/orb and my pox faulds do 272%/sec. Perhaps these are variable affixes too! Awesome! Even more opportunities to hunt for better versions of legendaries when you find your first one.
So let's "real world" some stats.
Three pieces of gear i would love to use in my example
The leg ring that reduces set requirement by 1.
So I'm taking 5 of the Phoenix set and these two pieces:
Cinder coats give ya 20% to fire skills
Magefists give 40% to fire skills and double the duration of fire effects
Bracers are good for 20%
This source is good for 20%
The amulet slot is good for 20%
The belt will buff flame blades up to 15%
Same goes for the pants - 15%
The helm is good for meteor damage-15%
Boots? Same as helm - 15%
So we're looking at 120% multiplicatively factored into fire damage.. With 30% additive buffs to meteor and spectral blade damage...
Still find that fire damage bonus underwhelming? I don't.
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 2/2/2014 8:00 AM PST
Even if you had all of that bonus fire (which can you get on pieces outside of the set), it still doesn't make the 6p bonus good, and certainly not worth giving up the Legendary affixes that you would have to in order to complete it.
You can't get elemental bonus damage on gloves outside of the magefist - but I realize that's not part of the phoenix set.
Still, I see your point.
It's funny too - my gearset is practically a loadout in it of itself.
My Pox Faulds do AOE. My Moonlight Ward does AOE. My belt grants 100% DPS for 10 seconds after opening a chest or armor rack or dead body, my bracers grant bonus MS every time I smash a breakable, my weapon does 1375% weap damage every 10th enemy killed as a 30 yard massive AOE poison bomb.
Even with no skills on my bar...I could probably still look like a wizard, lol. A poison/arcane..wizard...A slytherin?
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 2/2/2014 9:31 AM PST
Posted by Arhaeus on incgamers forum, the chest piece;
http://i.imgur.com/KgdI75K.jpg < drop
http://imgur.com/KgdI75K,avf45Zq#1 < item stats
Not that great, I'm betting only the Int and the Res All are intrinsic. Obviously completing the set wont mean each piece is as optimal as it could be.
Edited by Valmont#1487 on 2/2/2014 10:53 AM PST
Yea. I'm just trying to bring to light just how bad the set bonus is is all. Even that wand that lets you have 2 Hydras out at once is better than the 6p set bonus, I'm pretty sure.
These set bonuses just really need to be on a whole 'nother level in order to justify giving up so much for them. And that's the tricky part (quantifying the value of each Legendary affix you're giving up). But another approach they can take is to add more set bonuses to them. Why limit it to 2p, 4p, and 6p bonuses and have to make them basically twice as good as any other single Legendary affix? They can just go 2p, 3p, 4p, 5p, and a 6p bonus and make each one as good as a single Legendary affix on any other piece of gear, right? And maybe make the 6p a little better than a single affix since you need 2 pieces off the bat in order start getting a bonus. I think it would be awesome to have sets like that.
2p - 500 Int
3p - Fire damage delt to you is reduced by 50%
4p - Increase fire damage you deal by 50%
5p - Summon a Phoenix familiar that fights along side you
6p - Every 5 seconds you automatically cast Meteor Shower
Just being silly with ideas off the top of my head, but you get the idea.
Yea. I'm almost positive those are the kinds of Legendaries we're going to need in order to tackle t6 content. Basically "layering" on extra dps through passive damage dealing Affixes rather than through straight up stat increases. Pox Faulds, for example, are basically 300% extra weapon damage per second, which outshines a lot of our class abilities on its own. And the Fulminator sword... if you're fighting, say, 5 mobs and proc it on each one, that's about 800% extra weapon damage per second (it doesn't hit the mob it procs on). It's basically 200% extra weapon damage per mob beyond the first. Moonlight Ward is about 300% extra per second. Etc. Start adding all that up from the various slots and you're looking at possibly more than doubling your normal dps output. It also means, though, that there will probably be a very selective and restricted "set" of gear you'll need in order to efficiently farm t6, and those items will the ones that everyone and their grandma will be hunting like mad for.
Note all of these damage buffs require that you take away some other affix.
Second, they aren't all buffing the same spell.
Also, I'm only seeing up to 15% on my source (I have both a Triumvirate and a Chant's.) It would be nice if the Torment-level source went up to 20%, but a lot nicer if it went up to 30%...
Edited by mou#1752 on 2/2/2014 11:54 AM PST
My response to this to this would be a question. Do procs benefit from +elemental damage? Example: would my pox faulds deal 14% more damage when combined with a +14% to poison bracer?
Edited by ChangBooster#1510 on 2/2/2014 5:28 PM PST
Yea all % legendary affixes have a roll range now. Seen a lot with varying % damage or % effect.
300 over 5 sec is pretty weak. Have to see full set and stats on each item. Considering odds of getting full set it should be OP/IMBA as hell. like 3000 weap damage over 5 seconds.
Nothing wrong with OP/IMBA as long as it takes considerable effort to get it which wasnt case with CM wiz for example.
Edited by Aimless#1700 on 2/2/2014 4:26 PM PST
Well on Rare Chests, the max roll is 415. So a 700 Int roll is close to 170% of that max roll. That's something to consider. Also, all chests roll a max of 4 primaries, of which this one seems to have been int, AR, % life and 3 sockets. IF a re-roll is available, the % Life stat could be rolled into Armor or Vit which again, is going to have ranges way above rolls on rares. If a re-roll for mit/ehp (armor/vit) is not needed, and the mit/ehp is overkill, a % bonus to a skill can replace the mit/ehp. This chest is pretty much as good as it gets minus some minor tweaking of existing rolls (which obv can't be done) and a (re-roll) which can.
That's a chest piece worth wearing all by itself..only concern I have is the base armor roll. I even like the secondaries. GG.
True, but you don't have to replace a damage affix to do it. Say you have 400 int, 400 vit, 90 all res, 6.0 crit bracers. You could re-roll that vit or AR into a 20% elemental bonus because it's a legendary piece. You always can only have 4 max rolls on a piece, right? So yeah, whenever you use the mystic, you gotta give something up. But my point is, you can ADD damage without REPLACING damage.
It depends on the spell, right? You can't get % to one skill in those 4 slots - true. If you took all the buffs I listed above and decided to cast spectral blades, you'd get all the buffs minus the meteor, and vice versa when casting meteor. It is also worth noting that the % bonuses to specific skills are additive, not multiplicative - but they are also considered primaries. If I found myself too squishy with all those rolls, the % to meteor and the % to blades would be the first places I'd go to re-roll for ehp/mit. I like this option because it allows me to re-roll AGAIN should another piece of my gear pick up that ehp/mit later, therefore alleviating my need for it once more. I'm more comfy giving up an additive bonus than a multiplicative bonus, obv.
The source I looted (see OP for pic) has 18% to Fire damage. I have to check the source in my inventory but I'm pretty confident the max elemental % on that source is 20%. The max elemental % on most legendary pieces is 20% (bracers, source, amulet) by default unless it is a fixed roll, in which case it can be as high as 50% (45% on my Moonlight Wards, for example)
You guys need to try and think about this in ROS terms, not D3V terms. What is the function this set provides?
With a fire % bonus set, this set can shine. The flavor text doesn't state that it matters how you set mobs on fire, it just tells you what happens if you do. It's the fire version of pestilence. It aggros, it adds a little flavor to your kills - and most importantly - we have no idea yet if the fire damage from the explosion stacks...which would make sense for it to do in my mind
Edited by Melkor#1521 on 2/2/2014 5:34 PM PST
It's not even close to Pestilence. You have to kill a mob WITH FIRE for the DoT to go out with this set bonus. Pestilence spreads automatically (and very, very rapidly).
As I mentioned before, that won't even matter. Boosting that 60% weapon damage per second by 120% (so 132% WD per second?) is still crappy compared to what you have to give up in order to get the set bonus in the first place.
That won't really matter much either except on maybe really low Torment levels where it's easy/fast to get kills. So you'd kite a ton of trash to an elite pack and then kill all the trash to nuke the elite pack with DoTs (like you do with Black Ice on live right now). Even then, though, stuff dies so fast anyhow on t1-3 that it's more gimmicky than anything.
On higher Torment levels (t5-6) it's going to take forever to get a kill in, and kiting a ton of trash to an elite pack probably isn't the best idea on that high of a difficulty in some circumstances. So it'd be like you're kiting all this trash to an elite, upping the risk of dying having that much more to deal with, so that 5 minutes later when the trash mobs finally start to die you'll be able to get 1000% extra weapon damage per second for 5 seconds. Doesn't seem worth it, when I can get 300% from Paux Faulds, 300% from Moonlight Ward, 120% from Andy's, 200% PER MOB beyond the first with Fulminator, etc., and not be restricted by things having to die first before I get my extra damage in and not have to use shenanigans in order to achieve it.
I'm optimistic that they'll eventually buff and/or change the set bonuses to make them worth chasing. But there's no way to be optimistic that the set bonus in it's current incarnation is any good.
"Torment-only" implies "level 70-only," is this correct?
Awesome discussion on this item set here BTW. I had the thought that fiery explosions would be awesome for faceroll low-t mode but I see Malakai already mentioned that would be a use for the set. Wouldn't it make more sense for the badazzz fire wiz set to be able to provide you with amazing fire damage all the time instead of an on-kill DoT and a free life? Shouldn't this be useful at all difficulties, not just T1-2?
Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.
Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.
Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.