Diablo® III

[Review] - Monk RoS datamined changes 2/6/14

02/07/2014 09:13 PMPosted by Electroclash
This is what is sad with today's game developers. I don't blame in the internet. Back in the stone age, games had to be completed and shipped with close to 0 bugs because there was no way to patch things and they were forced to come out with a finished complete product. As the internet revolution came in, they realized that content could be patched with the help of the internet and so begins the trend of shipping unpolished product and patch it later..

I can say 'why do i have to go through this yet again' but in all honesty i love this game and i will put up with it but I was hoping RoS would've been a much more complete product. Reading up, yep its sad to see FoT go on this expac... I was hoping some buffed on the less used FoT skills but hey, win some lose some. And if APS is based on EF/Sludge, I think i'll give PTR a go and spend some p-points on AS. Hopefully it'll be a positive result. I haven't tried PTR as much but I'd love to see some ppl put out new interesting builds and post their results. Wish i had more time to play but being a daddy of 2 *sigh*


Yea, Blizzard 'used to' be a publisher that frustratingly never released a game until they were 100% satisfied with it, but they are a business with both stockholders and employees to represent, and I've thoroughly enjoyed nearly every Blizz franchise at one point or another. Then again, we as consumers have become very entitled as well. Having access to a PTR and non-NDAed up closed Beta is a benefit we seem to take for granted now and expect the world every patch.

But yes, the Paragon IAS adding straight up 'attacks per second' - thus making all your other IAS affixes more potent is intended... for now:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11676477561#2
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02/07/2014 01:49 PMPosted by Demiwraith
It kinda becomes "You do X% more damage across the board when FoT is your generator", though. More Cyclones if you're using SW, more Spirit generated so you do more damage from Spirit Spenders, etc.

Yes, but in the beta my monk feels so terribly slow, and I don't think the monk should be slow.
I still running around with a Mempo, a Innas Temperance, a WH, my old Rare Ring. I am slightly above the 2 APS mark, and only because I kept some vanilla items.

And, if I am not mistaken, skill-bonuses for primary attacks roll only on Pants and Belts. So you can't stack "primary-ias" till your primary-attack has an APS of 3.5 or something like that.

So you might have ias on your Rings, Gloves, probably you got something like this:
http://up.picr.de/17264950re.png
And Belt and Pants have a 15% skill-bonus. At the end, you have 4 Items with "real" ias, so 28% and two items with skill-ias, so youre at 58%, at 73% with the DW-bonus. What would be similar to the vanilla-values (slightly higher, most monks are running around with about something like 69%, depending if they have max rolled ias everywhere).

I don't see any problems with that, if you are using 2 fistweapons you're ending up with 2,4 APS.
Fast enough, but not too fast. :)

And I don't think the behaviour of Blizzard towards the consumer needs to be discussed here.
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I tried running ptr.. the APS seems a bit off even after wearing vanilla gear and having full point 50/50... I just don't feel the APS.... maybe it's just me but the increase is so small i hardly notice it. Though after some dedicated points to main stat dex and distributing point in offense, i can really feel the punch on torment 2 at lvl60. The hits are big and hard but the aps... *sigh*
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02/08/2014 03:04 AMPosted by Electroclash
I tried running ptr.. the APS seems a bit off even after wearing vanilla gear and having full point 50/50... I just don't feel the APS.... maybe it's just me but the increase is so small i hardly notice it. Though after some dedicated points to main stat dex and distributing point in offense, i can really feel the punch on torment 2 at lvl60. The hits are big and hard but the aps... *sigh*


Well... 50/50 paragon in attack speed only adds .1 attacks per second compared to what we're used to from EF of .25, so it's not anything amazing, essentially getting a free affix in line with most other paragon categories.

So compared to what we all thought it was before (10% ias), it is only a slight benefit

1.0 attack speed Skorn with 100% ias from gear speccing 50/50 paragon for +.1 attack = 2.2 attack speed
1.0 attack speed Skorn with 100% ias from gear speccing 50/50 paragon +10% ias = 2.1 attack speed

But if you have 0% ias, it is literally the same.... ie 1.1 for both.

When Dual Weilding, +attacks per second is also just slightly better.

1.2 attack speed spear + 1.4 attack speed fist with 115% ias speccing 50/50 paragon for +.1 attack = 2.80/3.22 attack speed
1.2 attack speed spear + 1.4 attack speed fist with 115% ias speccing 50/50 paragon for +10% attack = 2.70/3.15 attack speed
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Are any of these items still worth considering bringing over to RoS for Monk?

30 -5 LTK SoJ
WoL SoJ
Nat's 2 bonus
WH

Anything else?

I crafted a decent amulet already. And can probably funnel some items looted with other classes during the pre expansion patch and later rerolled in RoS with Monk if needed to help get started. Or just as well lvl70 gear with -lvlreq to help get started.
Edited by dominatus#2534 on 2/8/2014 6:02 AM PST
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As a Monk...I feel the FoT/TC is greatly hindered while the TC proc is weak and slow.

SW/Cyclone - in 1.0.8 patch with my current Monk build, I whip out 5-10 (if not more) cyclones demolishing everything in the monks path...in PTR...I only whip out, same monk, same build with 3-5 cyclones greatly reducing lightning AoE damage.

SW/FS - Switched to the fire storm and noticed a more improved damage rating than SW/C...what gives??? Re-buff the cyclone output. It wasn't broke...why nerf it?? It made me not want to be a lightning monk anymore, now I'm half lightning half fire..where's the synergy in that?

The only thing that changed my PTR Monk was the SW/FS.
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Well... 50/50 paragon in attack speed only adds .1 attacks per second compared to what we're used to from EF of .25, so it's not anything amazing, essentially getting a free affix in line with most other paragon categories.

So compared to what we all thought it was before (10% ias), it is only a slight benefit

1.0 attack speed Skorn with 100% ias from gear speccing 50/50 paragon for +.1 attack = 2.2 attack speed
1.0 attack speed Skorn with 100% ias from gear speccing 50/50 paragon +10% ias = 2.1 attack speed

But if you have 0% ias, it is literally the same.... ie 1.1 for both.

When Dual Weilding, +attacks per second is also just slightly better.

1.2 attack speed spear + 1.4 attack speed fist with 115% ias speccing 50/50 paragon for +.1 attack = 2.80/3.22 attack speed
1.2 attack speed spear + 1.4 attack speed fist with 115% ias speccing 50/50 paragon for +10% attack = [b]2.70/3.15 attack speed


Well this is going to be an issue. Given that AS is nerfed come RoS, based on your calculation it seems that the gain is way too small. I don't know, putting on Full AS gear with 115% + 10%, I feel that there's still something wrong. I don't know if its the animation or it's slightly off. Based on Blizz, they say it's working fine. I think those who have run monk for so long would know whether you're attacking at the right pace. The thing is, that 10% will be too small because you won't be getting that 115%..... OUCH!

Are any of these items still worth considering bringing over to RoS for Monk?

30 -5 LTK SoJ
WoL SoJ
Nat's 2 bonus
WH

Anything else?

I crafted a decent amulet already. And can probably funnel some items looted with other classes during the pre expansion patch and later rerolled in RoS with Monk if needed to help get started. Or just as well lvl70 gear with -lvlreq to help get started.


Well all the items will still be worth using for a bit till you get upgrades unless you plan to start with basic gear.
Edited by Electroclash#6469 on 2/8/2014 8:44 AM PST
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02/08/2014 08:38 AMPosted by Electroclash
Well this is going to be an issue. Given that AS is nerfed come RoS, based on your calculation it seems that the gain is way too small. I don't know, putting on Full AS gear with 115% + 10%, I feel that there's still something wrong. I don't know if its the animation or it's slightly off. Based on Blizz, they say it's working fine. I think those who have run monk for so long would know whether you're attacking at the right pace. The thing is, that 10% will be too small because you won't be getting that 115%..... OUCH!


I think you are confusing IAS and the innate attack speed boost each generator has 'built in'. IAS as an affix is not nerfed in any way in RoS. 10% ias is still 10% ias, it's the 'hidden' ias with FoT that has been nerfed. I will guess you are using Fists of Thunder which right now on Live has a hidden 1.51 attack speed multiplier that is pretty easy to verify.

On the live servers, equip a skorn with no ias = 1.0 attack speed. Pick any FoT rune and count how many 3 hit combos you can perform in a minute - it should be ~30 = 2 sec per 3 hit combo = ~1.5 speed multiplier.

Now go log onto PTR and equip a skorn with no ias = 1.0 attack speed. Do the same and you should find yourself only able to perform ~23 3-hit combos = ~1.16 speed multiplier in RoS

So essentially, what you are 'feeling' is a FoT nerf, NOT an IAS nerf (Bells still drop at the same speed for example)... So if you had 3.0 attack speed on live it was actually ~4.5 with FoT, but in RoS is only ~3.5 which is pretty harsh, but it is what it is. With IAS on items slightly harder to come by and no more crutch EF+attacks/second affix to use, there really isn't a way to get the same feel back so give some other generators a try and hope they adjust FoT back up someday. CW/WotHF remain pretty close to the same hidden attack speed bonus, and Deadly Reach's hidden coefficient was actually buffed from ~1.23 to ~1.33. Knockup and ability to continue dps without standing in stuff makes DR pretty useful for me on higher Torments!

edit: underlining spree! baby's nap over.. time to go!
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 2/8/2014 10:10 AM PST
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@ druin thanks for the updates sorry to hear about fot tho, lol im still using quickening on the ptr for generator ill have to try out other generators now . I always thought that legacy items were gonna be unenchantable tho , I seem to remember that ,that was a done deal right from the start, it doesn't bother so much . Keep up the great information Druin it's much appreciated.Peace
Edited by skipwilson#1851 on 2/8/2014 10:19 AM PST
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Posts: 11,672
02/06/2014 11:44 AMPosted by Druin
Obviously everyone cares the most about --
ItemCannotBeEnchantedLegacy - The mystic cannot enchant legacy items.


After stashing 2 of my stash tabs and an alt character up with "re-rollable items", I hope this change goes live this way. Sure I have a lot of wasted items, but at least the concept of missing key items is no longer an issue.

Plus at the end of the day, the worse the items, the better the game. Only because difficulty would never be scaled high enough to make use of good items+skill at the same time.
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02/08/2014 01:19 AMPosted by Davlok
But yes, the Paragon IAS adding straight up 'attacks per second' - thus making all your other IAS affixes more potent is intended... for now:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11676477561#2


Looks like Blues are not saying the same thing. Paragon Attack Speed being "+ attacks per second" per Tsarnis of Team Quality Assurance is being challenged by Community Manager - Nevalistis of Team Community Managers as intending to be standard "increased attack speed %"

Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11747784672?page=1#20

But I do see the point, slow weapons do take advantage of +attacks more but at high levels of ias, even fast weapons do.
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 2/14/2014 3:44 AM PST
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