Diablo® III

[2.1 Mechanics] Spirit Generators: Quick Ref.

Preliminary Test performed on PTR Tonight:

FoT in (PTR 2.1) Avg. Bonus attack speed bonus = +35% = Increased from +16% (2.0)
DR in (PTR 2.1) Avg. Bonus attack speed bonus = +33% = unchanged
WotHF in (PTR 2.1) Avg. Bonus attack speed bonus = +30% = Increased from +16% (2.0)
CW in (PTR 2.1) Avg. Bonus attack speed bonus = +30% = Increased from +13% (2.0)

Per the patch notes, only the first two hits of FoT/CW/WotHF animations were sped up. (above is average. Assuming the 1st two punches are the same speed and 3rd is @ listed aps...
1st / 2nd / 3rd Punch speed boost:
FoT: 164%, 164% 100%
DR: 159% 159% 100%
WotHF: 153% 153% 100%
CW: 153% 153% 100%

Damage Charts Below: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11882328396?page=10#184
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 8/8/2014 5:24 AM PDT
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08/05/2014 05:46 PMPosted by Davlok
Not until we can figure out a good way to determine proc coefficents with the change to LoH.


I'm not a tester, but I'm pretty sure you can find exact proc coefficients with the Hack weapon. This is the formula for Hack I got from Kanjihack's legendary mechanics thing...

(Primary Stat / 400 + 1) * (Sheet Thorns Value) * (Hack % Roll) * (Skill Proc Coefficient)

You don't have to do any gear adjustments since the thorns damage and hack damage are always the same. For testing procs a regular attack swing should be 1.00 proc chance. Use regular attack and see what the Hack white damage pop up # is. You can then use generators and see what those Hack damage numbers are. The proc coefficient of the generator based on that formula would be...

Hack damage of generator/Hack damage of regular attack swing
Edited by Koxinga#1737 on 8/5/2014 6:39 PM PDT
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08/05/2014 06:33 PMPosted by Koxinga
I'm not a tester, but I'm pretty sure you can find exact proc coefficients with the Hack weapon. This is the formula for Hack I got from Kanjihack's legendary mechanics thing...

(Primary Stat / 400 + 1) * (Sheet Thorns Value) * (Hack % Roll) * (Skill Proc Coefficient)

You don't have to do any gear adjustments since the thorns damage and hack damage are always the same. For testing procs a regular attack swing should be 1.00 proc chance. Use regular attack and see what the Hack white damage pop up # is. You can then use generators and see what those Hack damage numbers are. The proc coefficient of the generator based on that formula would be...

Hack damage of generator/Hack damage of regular attack swing


Wow thank you sir. I can confirm the proc coefficients can be verified via this method.

Thunderclap's Proc is unchanged from Live.
FoF's 2nd hit is still applying multiple DoTs

Edit: Confirmed ALL gen proc coefficients still unchanged from 2.0.1 (first post)
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 8/6/2014 7:00 AM PDT
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First Swing at updated Damage/Spirit Charts, probably a few errors still, but Windforce Flurry is the big surprise!

Updated 2.1 Spirit Generator Damage Charts

Damage: Single Target

    WotHF Fists of Fury 100%
    WotHF Windforce Flurry 79%
    FoT All Runes 75%
    WotHF Hands of Lightning 72%
    DR Searing Grasp 72%
    CW Mangle 69%
    WotHF Blazing Fists 57%
    WotHF Assimilation 54%
    WotHF Base 51%
    CW Breaking Wave 51%
    DR Foresight 48%
    DR Scattered Blows 47%
    CW Base / C / RT / T 42%
    DR Base / PT / SfB 41%

Damage: 4+ targets

    WotHF Fists of Fury 100%
    WotHF Windforce Flurry 79%
    WotHF Hands of Lightning 72%
    DR Searing Grasp 72%
    CW Mangle 69%
    WotHF Assimilation 62%
    WotHF Blazing Fists 57%
    WotHF Base 51%
    CW Breaking Wave 51%
    DR Foresight 48%
    DR Scattered Blows 47%
    FoT Thunderclap 44%
    CW Base / C / RT / T 42%
    DR Base / PT / SfB 41%
    FoT Bounding Light 36%
    FoT Base / WB / SC / Q 19%

* - Bonus Damage from Foresight, Assimilation, Breaking Wave, Bounding Light, Blazing Fists included in rankings. (keep in mind many of these buffs/debuffs also affect other non-generator damage you or your party deals and should be ranked higher overall.)
** - Bonus Damage from Static Charge Rune is NOT included in the above charts.

Spirit Generation Rankings Updated

Single Target Spirit Generation Ranking
    FoT: Q 100%
    CW: RT 70%
    FoT (base) 70%
    DR (base) 59%
    WotHF (base) 58%
    CW (base) 58%

4+ Target Spirit Generation Ranking
    CW: RT 100%
    FoT: Q 94%
    FoT (base) 66%
    DR (base) 56%
    WotHF (base) 55%
    CW (base) 55%

10+ Target Spirit Generation Ranking
    CW: RT 100%
    FoT: Q 56%
    FoT (base) 39%
    DR (base) 33%
    WotHF (base) 32%
    CW (base) 32%
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With these buffs to the first 2 hits of a combo, is it worth it to use 2 generators and switch between then so you never use the third slow as part of the combo?
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08/05/2014 10:55 PMPosted by Jotoco
With these buffs to the first 2 hits of a combo, is it worth it to use 2 generators and switch between then so you never use the third slow as part of the combo?


No, weaving generators will always follow the 3 hit combo even between generator unless you swap to a spender, or stop attacking

But weaving actually used to be one of the early vanilla D3 monk dps rotations - weaving 1st/2nd/3rd punches between different generators to maximize damage with C.Strike. But the RoS added +elemental damage affix really limits the tri-gen combinations that could work in 1-2-3 fashion.

Examples:
Tri-gem Fire
1st punch - Blazing Fists (to refresh 15% ias stack)
2nd punch - Searing Grasp
3rd punch - Mangle

Tri-gem Lightning
1st punch - Static Charge (teleport into combat & apply SC Debuff)
2nd punch - Hands of Lightning (423% wd)
3rd punch - Scattered Blow (215% wd aoe)

But.. it would probably do less damage than any random tri-gen holy primarily using FoF ^_^
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 8/6/2014 7:51 AM PDT
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Verified all of the generator proc coefficients are still the same as when RoS 2.0.1 launched - at least on the latest PTR. Used the legendary axe Hack to test the proc coefficients since Life-on-Hit is now bypassing coefficients. (I happened to have stashed a 99% Hack for a rainy day)

Test Method:
1) Check I have some value of thorns
2) Equip Hack as only weapon.
3) Use base attack (1.0 proc coefficient) to get base hack value
4) Record generator hack values and divide by base hack value to obtain generator proc coefficient

Comments:
FoF still double procs. (2 separate instances)
Thunderclap's thunderclap still double hits 1 target
Windforce Flurry is as super cool!

[S-T] = Single Target Only
[AoE] = Area of Effect
X = number of targets that are hit

FIsts of Thunder

2.01: FoT-Unruned/Quickening/Wind Blast
[S-T] 1st Hit = 0.86
[S-T] 2nd Hit = 0.86
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.62)(X)

2.01: FoT-Static Charge
[S-T] 1st Hit = 0.42
[S-T] 2nd Hit = 0.42
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.31)(X)
* - charge has no noticeable proc coefficient

2.01: FoT-Bounding Light
[S-T] 1st Hit = 0.85
[S-T] 2nd Hit = 0.85
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.31)(X)
[AoE] Chain Lightning = (0.31)(X-1) where 2 ≤ X ≤ 4
* - chain lightning requires minimum 2 targets, hits max 3 enemies

PTR 2.01: FoT-Thunderclap
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.21)+(0.21)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.21)+(0.21)(X)
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.62)(X)

Deadly Reach

2.01: DR-Unruned/SG/SfB/FS
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.85)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.85)(X)
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.75)(X)

2.01: DR-PT
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.85)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.50)(X)

2.01: DR-Scatted Blows
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.85)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.85)(X)
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.35)(X)

Crippling Wave

2.01: CW-Unruned/M/C/RT/BW
[AoE-90] 1st Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE-180] 2nd Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE-360] 3rd Hit = (0.50)(X)

2.01: CW-Tsunami
[AoE-90] 1st Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE-180] 2nd Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE-360] 3rd Hit = (0.35)(X)

Way of the Hundred Fists

2.01: WotHF-Unruned/BF/A/WF
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.09)(X)*7
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.50)(X)

2.01: WotHF-HoL
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.75)(X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.09)(X)*10
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.50)(X)

2.01: WotHF-FoF
[AoE] 1st Hit = (0.75)(X)+(0.75X)
[AoE] 2nd Hit = (0.09)(X)*7+(0.09)(X)*7
[AoE] 3rd Hit = (0.50)(X)+(0.50)(X)
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Comments:
Windforce Flurry is as super cool!


explain? What is the Proc C of the 3rd hit?
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08/05/2014 06:15 PMPosted by Davlok

1st / 2nd / 3rd Punch speed boost:
FoT: 152.5%, 152.5% 100%
DR: 150% 150% 100%
WotHF: 145% 145% 100%
CW: 145% 145% 100%


When you state these values here, does it not mean that Deadly Reach for example has 1.5x APS on 1st and 2nd strikes, and 1x APS on 3rd strike?
That would mean the first two strikes take 0.67s and the third strike takes 1s, resulting in 2.33s to deal 3 hits, or an average of 1.2857 APS.
Since the average speed boost is 133% or 1.33 APS, and the first two strikes are identical in speed, their speed boosts should be
2/((3 / 1.33) - 1) = 159.3%, or 1.593 APS at 1.00 sheet APS.

How are these values calculated then?
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08/08/2014 04:03 AMPosted by Folseus
When you state these values here, does it not mean that Deadly Reach for example has 1.5x APS on 1st and 2nd strikes, and 1x APS on 3rd strike?
That would mean the first two strikes take 0.67s and the third strike takes 1s, resulting in 2.33s to deal 3 hits, or an average of 1.2857 APS.
Since the average speed boost is 133% or 1.33 APS, and the first two strikes are identical in speed, their speed boosts should be
2/((3 / 1.33) - 1) = 159.3%, or 1.593 APS at 1.00 sheet APS.

How are these values calculated then?


Heh, I don't do any datamining or frame-by-frame analysis. I just calculate the modifiers from what I observe in-game over a set period of time - which takes into account stuff like latency, etc. The % listed you quoted I just grabbed from what I assumed was datamined info, without checking the math to make sure they matched my observed data. I edited the % above to match my observed data instead of the datamined, but can't personally confirm the first two punches for all generators have the exact same speed boost or the 3rd isn't somehow slower than your listed aps.

I am fairly confident in the average aps modifiers numbers listed above.

08/07/2014 09:21 AMPosted by Lightdemon

Comments:
Windforce Flurry is as super cool!


explain? What is the Proc C of the 3rd hit?


Super-cool in that they buffed it to do 500% weapon damage that his everything in a line across the screen! I liked it when I first unlocked it leveling up in patch 1.01 at least ^_^
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08/08/2014 06:01 AMPosted by Davlok
08/08/2014 04:03 AMPosted by Folseus
When you state these values here, does it not mean that Deadly Reach for example has 1.5x APS on 1st and 2nd strikes, and 1x APS on 3rd strike?
That would mean the first two strikes take 0.67s and the third strike takes 1s, resulting in 2.33s to deal 3 hits, or an average of 1.2857 APS.
Since the average speed boost is 133% or 1.33 APS, and the first two strikes are identical in speed, their speed boosts should be
2/((3 / 1.33) - 1) = 159.3%, or 1.593 APS at 1.00 sheet APS.

How are these values calculated then?


Heh, I don't do any datamining or frame-by-frame analysis. I just calculate the modifiers from what I observe in-game over a set period of time - which takes into account stuff like latency, etc. The % listed you quoted I just grabbed from what I assumed was datamined info, without checking the math to make sure they matched my observed data. I edited the % above to match my observed data instead of the datamined, but can't personally confirm the first two punches for all generators have the exact same speed boost or the 3rd isn't somehow slower than your listed aps.

I am fairly confident in the average aps modifiers numbers listed above.


I tried some frame analysis and it did appear that the first two strikes were identical in speed with a boost, while the third strike was at your rated APS. Though with Way of the Hundred Fists, I wasn't too sure where the animation for the 1st and 2nd strikes started and ended, I couldn't be bothered to retest after I closed my PTR client. They definitely matched the average attack speed you've posted, but I was just wondering why the individual strikes were different than what I had observed or calculated. Thanks.
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08/08/2014 07:24 PMPosted by Folseus
I tried some frame analysis and it did appear that the first two strikes were identical in speed with a boost, while the third strike was at your rated APS. Though with Way of the Hundred Fists, I wasn't too sure where the animation for the 1st and 2nd strikes started and ended, I couldn't be bothered to retest after I closed my PTR client. They definitely matched the average attack speed you've posted, but I was just wondering why the individual strikes were different than what I had observed or calculated. Thanks.


Thanks for the verification. I don't know specifically why observed attack speeds don't match up with other data (datamined or whatnot), but guessing they won't be buffing the attack speeds for a while. :-(
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Updated the first post with 2.1 info, most of the stuff didn't change since the last PTR (proc coefficents, damage rankings, etc) - so it's mostly just formatting.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11882328396

One interesting patch note for a WotHF feature I didn't know existed:
Removed the target cap on the third hit

Probably a bug they Found/Fixed while testing Assimilation! ^_^
Edited by Davlok#1847 on 9/1/2014 8:29 AM PDT
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Shouldn't the single target damage on FoT-TC be tops? 320 - 320 - 520, much higher than 3 hits of FoF.

Actually, that whole ranking looks wrong. Many skills with better single target dps than FoF.
Edited by Deathwing#1616 on 9/2/2014 8:37 PM PDT
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Many thanks for doing the testing Davlok!
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09/02/2014 08:32 PMPosted by Deathwing
Shouldn't the single target damage on FoT-TC be tops? 320 - 320 - 520, much higher than 3 hits of FoF.

Actually, that whole ranking looks wrong. Many skills with better single target dps than FoF.


That was what I though just looking at the tooltips as well originally, but in actual use FoF has a somewhat 'special' mechanic that pushes it up to #1. (First mentioned here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11882328396?page=2#39 ) But basically, FoF's holy DoT is applied every 'punch' so the 2nd strike's 7 punches applies 7 DoTs, which = an extra 420% weapon damage that bumps it into the top spot.

From 6 months ago: http://i.imgur.com/zGF3vgT.png (1st strike DoT tick on left 2nd strike DoT tick on right)

09/03/2014 12:04 AMPosted by Hippotion
Many thanks for doing the testing Davlok!


;-D Most of it was done on PTR, but Hacked a few zombies to verify a few runes on live.
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Derp, that sounded instantly familiar once you said it, just forgot about it, thanks.

Still,
(320 + 320 + 520) / 3 = 386.67 per strike for FoT-TC
(250 + 610 + 250) / 3 = 370 per strike for WoTHF-FoF

I'm assuming the thunderclap rune hits the main target, the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Edited by Deathwing#1616 on 9/3/2014 6:41 AM PDT
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09/03/2014 06:34 AMPosted by Deathwing
Derp, that sounded instantly familiar once you said it, just forgot about it, thanks.

Still,
(320 + 320 + 520) / 3 = 386.67 per strike for FoT-TC
(250 + 610 + 250) / 3 = 370 per strike for WoTHF-FoF

I'm assuming the thunderclap rune hits the main target, the wording is a bit ambiguous.


Last I checked TC did not hit the primary target by itself. Also the 3rd hit for FoT still split among the targets hit making it pretty terrible damage wise as targets increase.
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This post will require serious study!
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