Diablo® III

Is Blizzard De-Evolving?

03/20/2014 02:12 AMPosted by Mystic221
Seems they do not know what their players want anymore I mean come on when was the last time they released something GREAT like they use to in the 90's WoW BC??? its been 10 years since something great has returned everyting has been good at best


It's actually the opposite. They are listening to popular opinions which means that players themselves don't know what they want. "We want more experience, we want more legendary items that are always upgrades, we want to max out everything in one day" *sigh* People are whining so hard that i'm starting to wonder whether anyone here have actually played Diablo 2 - every D3 argument given is contradiction when compared to D2.
Edited by CrystalCore#2413 on 3/20/2014 11:53 AM PDT
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03/20/2014 03:36 AMPosted by Planet
Perhaps we are just harder to please as a people evolved.


I don't think that is it. I was talking to my sister the other day about games, she isn't a big gamer but always loved the Final Fantasy series, and we both agreed that games these days have been made to easy for the newer generation.

I remember beating SMB on the NES and then you are told to try again on the harder difficulty, which is even harder as later levels have those jumps with massive gaps and only one small block to jump on. Then add in no save points, you lose your lives you start from 1-1 again.

The current SMB on the Wii U has a new item. A white Tanooki suit that appears if you die too many times and with it, you can't die from anything. Even if you try to fall off a cliff you float back up.

My wifes younger brother (9 years old) will get a game and if it is too hard will just give up in 15 minutes.

We just want a good game with a challenge and good itemization without having everything we enjoy nerfed or removed.

03/20/2014 03:53 AMPosted by YNDI
I don't agree with everything they do, and sometimes I don't even think the games they put out is all that fun, but show me one MMORPG, APRG, RTS, or digital CCG with as much polish, fluidity, playability or direction as the aforementioned Blizzard products have.


GW2 has pretty decent polish, is very fluid and is playable.

Torchlight and Torchlight 2 are great ARPGs, only most people don't like the visual style (more akin to WoW).

Command and Conquer was StarCrafts main competition and until EA completely killed it with 4, it still is considered on of the best RTS series of all time with great gameplay.

I admit, D3 has some of the best gameplay feel for a ARPG and so far, besides the Torchlight series, only Grim Dawn has the same feel as D3.

That said, I think that Blizzard, since merging with Activision, has lost what they used to do well as money has become a key to everything.
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03/20/2014 11:53 AMPosted by jimmysmitty
That said, I think that Blizzard, since merging with Activision, has lost what they used to do well as money has become a key to everything.

Money was always the key to everything. When they merged I feared for the worst, but the company hasn't changed in any significant way since that happened.
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All you got to look at is the current 4/2 system...it's a work of genius!
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03/20/2014 02:23 AMPosted by Lumm
03/20/2014 02:12 AMPosted by Mystic221
Seems they do not know what their players want anymore I mean come on when was the last time they released something GREAT like they use to in the 90's WoW BC??? its been 10 years since something great has returned everyting has been good at best


Firstly, WoW BC was released in January 2007...which is quite far from the 90´s.

Having said that I also felt that Blizzard lost its magic somewhere around the release of BC. However, after SC2 and the Diablo 3 releases which in my mind were extremely polished but quite bad gaming products I must say that 2.0 for Diablo 3 has really made me think they are on the right track again. What I read about WoD is also steps in the right direction.

So lets see if they can bounce back with HotS, RoS, HS etc.


You dog on SC2 yet it is by far the most balanced RTS I've played in a long time, and RTS is my kinda thing. HS needs some serious looking into when you get shafted in the arena draft (last 5 arena attempts 0-15, drafted horrible cards)
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The only disappointments I've had were vanilla Diablo 3 and Cataclysm. And I've been a fan since Blackthorne/TLV.
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No possibility that the corporate machine is tuning itself to suit the de-evolution of their human consumer audience, which may be the main problem, and not the other way around like the OP states?
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03/20/2014 02:12 AMPosted by Mystic221
Seems they do not know what their players want anymore I mean come on when was the last time they released something GREAT like they use to in the 90's WoW BC??? its been 10 years since something great has returned everyting has been good at best


I'd say you don't know who the players are anymore.
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03/20/2014 02:23 AMPosted by Lumm
I must say that 2.0 for Diablo 3 has really made me think they are on the right track again


Everyone has been saying "they are on the right track" for quite some time yet we find ourselves still in the same spot.

Loot 2.0 is bare minimum patchwork in an attempt to fix or temporarily alleviate gaping problems by moving them slightly down the road (RoS). This game has unlimited potential and should be the undisputed king of the ARPG genre (questionable to even call it an arpg over an action game) but these dev's insist on keeping it in perpetual motion of mediocrity.
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03/20/2014 02:12 AMPosted by Mystic221
Seems they do not know what their players want anymore I mean come on when was the last time they released something GREAT like they use to in the 90's WoW BC??? its been 10 years since something great has returned everyting has been good at best


Dude wake up, it's called nostalgia.
I can remember playing Warcraft II and thought it was the best game ever made. Then WC3 and WOW... were just awesome.

But you have to take into consideration the age factor. While you are young and are probably going to school or university you don't really care about how the world works. You think companies just make games to entertain you.

After you get your first real job and have to pay for your own bills, your whole word gets shattered and capitalism shows it's real and ugly face.
Then you realize all this companies you trusted only want your money. You are beginning to question things what these company do and realize they are just gigantic marketing money machines.

The trend is clear. After the D3 RMAH and now this Hearthstone pay 2 win game=> The direction shows that the focus is more and more shifted to squeezing out the maximum $$$ instead of publishing great games.

And finally my last words about hearthstone. Because some guy said it's a quality product.
It is not. It is too much rng based as if any serious card player could take it seriously.
Too many cards are pure RNG and it makes the game very frustrating, when you play perfectly and the enemy just has perfect RNG and defeats you. Maybe if they ad another 200 cards and add more depth to the game it could be something. but think about how much money or time you have to spend to get all the new legendaries (which will be released on a very nice timely manner to make the masses pay the most)

I feel very sorry for everyone who is paying hundreds of dollars for packs (I know a lot who paid more than 300$+) to have some 'fun' ingame.
Technically it is not a pay 2 win because theoretically you could buy all cards while playing the game - which would only take half a year of grinding.

It's just this whole cross-marketing that is driving me cray cray. Buy Diablo 3 and get a WOW level 90 boost. Buy D3 and get your free Hearthstone pack.
At least they shut down the AH, but I doubt it is because they love their customers.
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Replace Blizzard with gaming and I agree with you.
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It's actually, lack of vision. Blizzard is now trying to cater to the casual which is why you are seeing a de-evolution.

Before... Blizzard had a vision for a game and then made that game happen. Then improve upon it.

Now... Blizzard just throws ideas (they've stolen from the forums) at the wall to see if they stick. No vision, no lead, a total mess.
Edited by TyCobb#1500 on 3/20/2014 12:18 PM PDT
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MoP is the best WoW expansion? Lol!!!!! Just for the fact it has cute fighting pandas, sorry, it's not.

Heartstone is a good quality card game? If you play Magic The Gathering you can see that no, it is not. Heartstone is more like Yu Gi Oh.

The fact already has been said: Blizz like other companies are aiming for more money then they are used to have before (started with subscription games, when they make people think it's a good way of paying for a game - aka product, not service , they get the jackpot), and also aiming day by day more for the child players (as you can see with cute little pandas, Heartstone, etc), and forgetting about we the old guys. In D1 we had a little boy that was possesed by a demon, in d3 we have Cain killed by butterflies.

We, the old vanguard of gamers, are forgotten in time/space like we never even existed, or be important for them be at the level they are now :(
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Everyone should seriously start playing Path of Exile.

It truly feels like where Diablo 2 left off.

Diablo 3 is a turd for the casual player. Its like it was made by the casuals who ruined wow after BC.
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03/20/2014 12:25 PMPosted by Cranktime
Everyone should seriously start playing Path of Exile.

It truly feels like where Diablo 2 left off.

Diablo 3 is a turd for the casual player. Its like it was made by the casuals who ruined wow after BC.


I'm a PoE founder, and when I used to play it, I really feel like playing d2... because of the graphics.

Other than that, not really.
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MoP is the best WoW expansion? Lol!!!!! Just for the fact it has cute fighting pandas, sorry, it's not.


Actually the new lands were well done, the monk class is well done. The expanded cooking is good as is the tillers(farmers). The new bg's are also good. I made a panda because I had the other races. MoP is so much more than your description. The solo instances to open up thunder Isle, the timeless isle the increased professions and the vast new areas.
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Pandas. Period.

http://alemdafichatecnica.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/kung.jpg
Edited by Grungempk#1935 on 3/20/2014 1:13 PM PDT
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03/20/2014 03:36 AMPosted by Planet
Perhaps we are just harder to please as a people evolved.
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Not true, D3 just doesnt' fit the ARPG people played D2 for. There's a whole lot more going on in D2 than everyone's experienced vicarious ability to play D2. As technology grew into a more connected world era so too did gamers increase in the same amount. I truly believe all the hardcore gamers of 90s and 80s still exist today and haven't quit, just that by default and fact there is always 9x more casuals than hardcore players, and that's what makes it seem like we're all harder to please.

No we're not. I don't speak for others but I certainly am not harder to please, the game either offers challenge, discovery, depth, and exploration or it doesn't. Games like OneWayHeroics have more volatility than D3. D3's loot 2.0 if no one's realized it yet is just an extended sugarcoating of a recycled problem that you're all experiencing previously with Loot 1.x.
Edited by KradisZ#1651 on 3/20/2014 5:35 PM PDT
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03/20/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Zackarias
MoP is the best WoW expansion? Lol!!!!! Just for the fact it has cute fighting pandas, sorry, it's not.


Actually the new lands were well done, the monk class is well done. The expanded cooking is good as is the tillers(farmers). The new bg's are also good. I made a panda because I had the other races. MoP is so much more than your description. The solo instances to open up thunder Isle, the timeless isle the increased professions and the vast new areas.


The new cooking turned a nice easy profession into a huge time sink. So it was a huge move in the wrong direction.

MoP was at launch a horrible time sink with dailies gating other dailies. It ruined alts for many people. Sure they fixed it by tossing gear at everyone on the Timeless Isle and people seemed to be happy with that.

I am not sure as a design decision tossing gear at players to try and fix a horrible mess they made at launch is really a good idea.
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03/20/2014 03:36 AMPosted by Planet
Perhaps we are just harder to please as a people evolved.


Agreed, the gaming industry as well as the average gamer have changed a lot since the days of "old" Blizzard..

Ouroboros brings up several good points too.

Though I can't help but think that Blizz may be becoming too big or bloated rather than devolving. However, this isn't a good thing either. Many ancient empires slowly fell when they started getting too big for them to be governed properly.

For Blizz, that means too much resources wasted on management and bureaucracy.

The red tape means decisions take ages to be put into action compared to much smaller indie companies.

Also, as a bigger corporation, Blizz would need a lot more revenue and income compared to smaller developers.

This is one of the reasons why indie devs can produce a game targeted to a niche market. They need relatively fewer sales to break even, whereas the monstrous Blizz would need huge sales. And the easiest way of getting huge sales is to produce a game which is catered to the mass market. Certainly not the "hardcore" gamer.

Blizz does seem to be recognising this problem, which is a why a small and mostly independent team is doing Hearthstone.
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