Diablo® III

Next Expansion will divide the Nephalem

i think as a side option, allowing us to "revisit" some of the epic historic boss fights and such like baal mephisto and so on will please alot of players.

as far as the lore and story goes, their options are running thin... let's look at the history so far:
ancient conflict between heaven and hell, sanctuary created using worldstone.
worldstone hidden from evil only to be corrupted and destroyed.

prime evils roam the world, get contained and destroyed one by one only leaving diablo himself.
diablo walks the earth for the 3rd time only to get destroyed again, leaving only his essence trapped within the soulstone.

angeris council member goes bad and seeks out the soulstone, only to get defeated by the nephaelem.

so with all that and aside from maybe the hinting out at the end of "choices" we will have to make... what else can they come up with? there isn't much evil left in the world >.>
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Well with all the lore books and hints they dropped in Act V towards the end of Inarius and Lilith, I'm guessing their involvement is finally going to come full circle. Whether that bad or good, I don't know.

I can tell you what I think I know though! It's no coincidence that Tyeal is talking about the Skovos islands during adventure mode and how he sent horadrim there that never returned.

I think Skovos is the perfect type of setting where a powerful female antagonist such as Lilith would make her stay and has probably already corrupted/brainwashed all the amazons in that land. Many people think the Nephalem are going to be very aggressive in the next expansion due to the massacre in RoS and I easily see Lilith as using this as the perfect time to try and eliminate both heaven and hell.

What Inarius's involvement will be though, I'm not really sure yet. Judging from those lore files, he was already a crazy and extreme Angel who Lilith manipulated. I only guess years of being tortured is going to make that worse...

Lol now that I have actually typed this out, I realized how perfect the timing is to end the D3 story with Inarius and Lilith coming full circle into the world they created. From a literary standpoint, it's solid.
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Blizzard should abandon the weird scheme of pure angels and pure demons because angels and demons act like humans anyway.
Blizzard should introduce some special event that evolves demons and angels into less single sided but more powerful beings.

Or angels and demons cooperate to create a world stone that steals the Nephalem powers from humans again.
Edited by gp789#2824 on 4/26/2014 1:13 PM PDT
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03/28/2014 10:02 PMPosted by Veloric
03/28/2014 07:30 AMPosted by Grulo
At the end of Warcraft III: TFT, Arthas was victorious and became the Lich King. All of Azeroth feared his wrath.
At the end of Starcraft: BW, Kerrigan had the most powerful army in the Koprulu sector and Terrans and Protoss were terrified of her.

Arthas as a villain won because You the player is on his side.

Kerrigan as queen b!atch of the universe won because the cerebrate---You the player-----led the Zerg swarm victory against all three factions

Regardless of villain or the ""good guys" being victory, the player ALWAYS win in Blizzard games

Your suggestion of Diablo winning would ONLY be an option if Nephalem can somehow side with the Burning Hells (as OP suggested) and win alongside Diablo. If this is the case, I am all for a Diablo-winning end.

The key about video game stories is that player participation contribute positively to the ending.

That's not hard to accomplish. Our character could've been possessed by Diablo after we kill Malthael. We get new, demonic powers and demonic runes for the old skills, we get a valid reason to fight Imperius, the other 6 Evils are back for revenge, we get more Diablo as he talks to us during Act VI.
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04/13/2014 12:18 AMPosted by NoSSlayer
04/03/2014 02:07 AMPosted by Ishtar
Making Imperius angry isn't really much of a problem either. If he gets too unruly our character can just turn him over and give him a good spanking.

I am a little more weary of Imperius than you seem to be. I remember going through pandemonium and him DESTROYING demons like they were nothing. I'm not so sure he will be an easy put down, especially if he teams up with Diablo.
On the other hand, Imperious lost to Prime Evil Diablo, which we beat. On the gripping hand, Imperious basically tried the equivalent of facetanking Diablo, and while that's possible ingame if you gear yourself up and play at a lower difficulty, I daresay that most people's first experience against Diablo involved running away from the red lightning at least.

On the whole, I'm also leery about just how much lore significance leveling really has, particularly since difficulty of enemies is now scaled according to level. From the backstories, for instance, the wizard had mastered a lot more than just Magic Missile before she arrived in Tristram, and in normal difficulty before level scaling, odds are most people were around level 10 when they were hailed for defeating the 'greatest champions' of the ancient nephalem by Alaric. From the skills they have available, a level 10-15 character still seems to be an apprentice compared to the D2 characters, so those champions... don't really seem all that impressive if you take the mechanics at face value. While the nephalem almost certainly has become more powerful through the story, I don't think the difference is anywhere close to that mechanically seen between a level 1 and level 70 character, or even a 5-10 level gap. So lorewise, the nephalem watching Imperious smashing demons in Pandemonium it probably not actually that much more powerful than the nephalem who slew Prime Evil Diablo.

My gut feeling is that the archangels and demon lords probably have more brute strength and durability, and are much better able to slaughter mooks than the nephalem (imagine how easy it might be for the Diablo we fight in Act IV to wade through the Act IV monsters). However, they're also bigger than a human and less able to dodge, and thus are less able to fight one another without it being a case of pitting brute strength against brute strength. At the risk of getting mechanics and lore confused myself, they also seem to be harder to heal - few bosses heal in fights, and Imperious' wound lasts through Act IV while the nephalem's health has probably gone up and down dozens or hundreds of times through the act. So basically, the nephalem is still strictly less powerful than the archangels and demon lords, but the nephalem is better at scoring hits on larger foes than vice versa, and can recover from injury and resume fighting much faster than their opponents allowing them to wear their enemies down. Basically, the demon lords and archangels have more ability to dish out and receive damage, but the nephalem is better at avoiding and bouncing back from damage.

End result of this is that just because we've beaten Prime Evil Diablo doesn't mean that Imperious would be a pushover, but on the other hand, just because we see Imperious swatting mooks that (depending on difficulty) might be quite hard for the PC to take down doesn't mean that their relative ability to splatter trash mobs is any reflection of what might happen if they were to fight one another.

Personally, though, to put another twist into the speculation - it was Adria's manipulation of the Black Soulstone through Leah served to ensure that Diablo's personality and identity was dominant in the Prime Evil, but that incarnation of Diablo was defeated. What if, however, instead of splitting back into seven when the Black Soulstone was destroyed, the Prime Evil remained united, but with a different dominant personality or a gestalt of all of them? One possibility to come up with something 'bigger and badder' than Prime Evil Diablo or corrupted Malthael could be the rebirth of Tathamet...
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What ever the hell they do, i hope they will make the next expansion campaign a lot longer, A LOT, with content that would keep you busy for longer than 2 weeks at least, because playing the Ros campaign, only to finish it in 4 hours was probably the biggest disappointment i have had in any game so far. if it will be the same crap, i won`t buy the expansion. Don`t just ad cover up end game crap.
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04/30/2014 02:36 AMPosted by Raven
What ever the hell they do, i hope they will make the next expansion campaign a lot longer, A LOT, with content that would keep you busy for longer than 2 weeks at least, because playing the Ros campaign, only to finish it in 4 hours was probably the biggest disappointment i have had in any game so far. if it will be the same crap, i won`t buy the expansion. Don`t just ad cover up end game crap.

Well to be honest here, the content in terms of what was delivered I thought might have been appropriate given the length of the previous Diablo 3 Vanilla. I think a huge problem stems from that blizzard has delivered Massive expansions for other titles such as Starcraft II and World of Warcraft.

I'm on the fence as to whether Reaper of Souls should have been like a brand new 4 acts to give it a similar length as the normal campaign. Ultimately though, I feel they would have needed a lot more time to get this accomplished.

One of the things that RoS really excelled in was the creation of their art assets. I mean, Act V was vastly superior to the other acts in terms of architecture, atmosphere, and maybe even character models. For one act, they sure did develop and make a ton of new character models for the expansion. All that takes time and I don't know how much more they could have done.

But also to counter what I just said, I feel the developmental team was really bogged down with spending their time trying to fix the game and make it appealing again. I do think if there was another expansion, that there is a good chance it would have two acts, and maybe even two characters.

But now with Blizzard's survey, I'm not even sure they know what they want to do. Seems like moving on to Diable IV is a very real possibility. I'd hate to see that happen before another expansion, because I think we all know it would be around another 6-8 years before another Diablo sequel would be delivered. It most certainly will not be in front of us in 3-4 years. I say finish up strong with what they have done so far, and make it into a game that has as much replayability to it as possible. That way it just buys time until DIV.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
Posts: 1,637
Personally, I hope the next round has us going toe to toe with heaven. Those bastards have it coming, much I as would dislike probably coming to blows with Auriel and the others. Except Imperius. Screw him.

Tyrael, being Justice and all, really has no ground to stand on if he gets in the way. The Angels have tried wiping out humanity twice. The first time was forstalled by a mere vote, as if they had the authority for such a judgement, and the second time it was nearly a success. What, you they'd shed a single tear if Mathael had managed to pull it off?

They'd have welcomed him back with open arms.
Edited by Highlord#1105 on 4/30/2014 6:30 PM PDT
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I disagree. Partially because Tyrael technically isn't Justice any more (he's now Wisdom) but to harken back to Kulle's line about being no justice in murder - there is no justice in going to war with people who voted 3-1 not to try to destroy you, on the basis that an extremist faction that has now been defeated defied that decision.

Yes, it's bad that they took the vote in the first place - but the fact that we're even seriously considering going to war with the High Heavens as a possibility demonstrates that they were right to regard humanity as a potential threat to them, one that merited considering taking pre-emptive action. Actions speak louder than words, though, and the action that the angels took was not to go to war.

A choice which has cost them. You're condemning the angels for Malthael's almost-destruction of humanity - should the angels condemn us for Adria's role in nearly destroying the High Heavens?

When it comes to the hypothetical of Malthael pulling it off - I don't think they would welcome him back. Three of the other four members of the Angiris Council had voted against humanity's destruction, and Malthael was defying that decision by unilaterally seeking that end himself. True, there were no armies of angels descending to oppose Malthael, probably because the Council didn't want to risk triggering a civil war, but the one angel who was most fervently pro-destruction-of-humanity provided assistance in helping take Malthael down. Sure, he was an arrogant prat about it as always, but at the bottom line, the one archangel who was most inclined to agree with Malthael recognised that Malthael had gone too far and needed to be put down. Yes, there was that line about not thanking us for it...

...but this is the equivalent to somebody providing information leading to the arrest and conviction of a sibling for a capital offense. They recognise the need for their sibling to be stopped, but if they otherwise had a functional relationship, they're not going to thank the executioner for killing their sibling.

At the bottom line... angels are a threat to humans, and humans (particularly nephalem) are a threat to angels. They could also help each other. And at this stage, the more they fight each other, the more Hell benefits - particularly given the end result of Malthael's attempt at genocide was re-releasing the Lords of Hell.
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Enjoyed FortimiD’s steampunk approach. No joke, when I encountered Uzrael for the first time I went all “wtf is Blizzard working on a Steampunk game?” on Twitter. That bazooka thingy was just too reminiscent of something a Thief character would have to deal with.

Still, I don’t think Blizzard will abandon the mediaeval vibes inside the Diablo franchise. But a spin-off perhaps?

As this whole thread is pure speculation anyway, let me introduce Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer. Obsidian / Atari had a similar problem with the chars being too powerful at the end of the original campaign. There’s just so many skeletons, ghouls and goblins to fight that are more of a challenge after you’ve managed to kill The Guardian and his Shadow Reavers. I.e., none.

Being an AD&D game, they could just have browsed higher level canon monsters – the original NWN2 went to Lv20, the expansion to Lv30 – but they did something akin to what Zabasaz suggested on page 1 already:

03/31/2014 03:34 AMPosted by Zabasaz

Diablo tapes together the Worldstone and uses it to control the Nephalem, forcing them to engage in war with one another. You must resist the corrupting influence of Diablo and defeat him before he infuses himself with the power of the Worldstone.

In MotB your char got hit by a curse. He wakes up, weakened, then recuperates, just to learn that the curse is both blessing and, well, a curse: He needs to stay alive either by restraining himself (good path) or devouring spirits (eeevil). The latter makes his own spirit level drop even faster, so he needs to eat more to stay alive to finish the game, at which point everybody in the world including your companions just think you’re one twisted little bugger. But you gain much power, more easily.

If you restrain yourself once a day instead, you stay on the good path, people like you and grant you powerful buffs, and you can use spirit globes for accomplishing side quests. But you’re weaker by far and in the latter stages of the expansion have to struggle to survive even sleeping. In the endgame, you fight yourself both literally and figuratively.

Now, I know MotB is a role playing game, not an ARPG. Nor is it Diablo, it’s AD&D. So I don’t know how well such an approach would work inside the framework of two decades DIII tries to be part of. But the end cinematics (for lack of a better word) hint strongly at a “choice” aspect to either a next expansion or a possible Diablo-4.

Out of how DIII has worked so far, though, I think it might be the “Redeem Leah” approach often mentioned in this thread. Add an anger-management Imperius as a decoy final boss, and it might work from the point of view of a Diablo game. We’ll have to fight six Great Evils sans Diablo at the same time in the real finale. Cinematic, make the player sacrifice himself as (s)he realises so much power in one person will destroy the whole of creation eventually (perhaps urged on by ghostly Leah and Cain), and you’ll have a clean slate for Diablo 4. Cliffhanger being Diablo cackling at the futile sacrifice while rising from the ashes of both the six other Great Evils, and the Nephalem. Or something.

Still, I would welcome more choice in how the story, and the game, evolve for each player. But then, as I said – this is an ARPG, or at least tries to be one.

We’ll see.
Edited by Nggalai#1381 on 5/6/2014 11:01 AM PDT
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lol Diablo 3's 'story'

Hey demon souls, tag you're it ! LOL --> on how adria got the demon souls into the BSS

Malthael releasing the prime evil after destroying sanctuary at attempt to eradicate demons for ever --> cool story
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Remember....there are MANY MORE worlds and entities outside of Sanctuary whose inhabitants are neither Angel or Demon.

I would actually like to deal with that a little, but tread new ground, and go a bit into Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror, and , we HAVE seen those kinds of entities in Diablo before.
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a lot of these comments are talking about Diablo 3 Like it's WoW and it doesn't need to be like Blizzard is great with storyline Diablo is not Warcraft an its not Starcraft.

The next expansion should focus on the Nephalem trying to unite and lead Sanctuary through good or evil means and both would effect they way the companions look at the Nephalem and have new companions like Witches and Angels.

or make it about saving Leah's soul by having the Nephalem enter the burning hells where the Prime Evils would be more powerful and have Tyrael doubt the Nephalem to the point where he wouldn't help him fight the Prime Evils.

I'd prefer my first idea but the second has merits to ether way should have hard choices for the player. and companions should die in it.
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Posts: 4
Plot twist: The Terrans make first contact with Sanctuary and the Protoss and the Zerg soon follow. The Nephalem now has to unite the Nephalem, Angels, and Demons to protect Sancutary from the Starcraft universe.

Nephalem Vs. Yamato Cannon
gg wp
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I think Leah should be found in Hell somewhere, she is literally the spawn of Diablo and therefore Half Demon. As for the final boss, it should be a corrupt Necromancer. With all the death caused by Malthael it makes sense that Necromancers would be in a very nice position to take power for themselves. After defeating the Necromancer end boss Heaven and hell decide they need to do something about the nephalem. Que Diablo 4.
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Okay i see your point in th levels thing, but what you need to understand, is that blizzard have at least with diablo 1 and 2 made it so story/lore-wise it wasn't just one hero that defeated Diablo, Bael and Mephisto etc. it was the group of heroes working together. So in Diablo 1 we had 3 heroes working together to defeat Diablo. D then corupts one of the heroes and becomes much stronger so in D2 we needed 5 people to beat him. Then Bael comes with the power of Tal'rasha that was one of the strongest horadrim in history so we had to get 2 more people in to the mix. Now we have 6 player carachters (not counting their male/female counterparts), do you see where i'm getting here?
The hero isn't the strongest being in creation but the teamwork of the heroes working together is.
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Nephalem are going to be there on worst enemy in the end with or without Heaven or Hell. Knowing that, best thing for Angels and Demons to do is stand back and do nothing.

But that wouldn't make a confusing, convoluted, simple story I suppose.
Edited by V41N77#1485 on 5/17/2014 1:47 AM PDT
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That's not hard to accomplish. Our character could've been possessed by Diablo after we kill Malthael. We get new, demonic powers and demonic runes for the old skills, we get a valid reason to fight Imperius, the other 6 Evils are back for revenge, we get more Diablo as he talks to us during Act VI.

Please, dear God, no more of Diablo's fem-voice. His/Her voice in D3 is the reason my ESC key is worn out.
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100 Night Elf Death Knight
Posts: 1,637
Thing is, Nggali, Imperius wasn't helping us take down Malthael because he thought it was the right thing to do or that Malthael had gone too far. He was perfectly happy to let humanity be consumed, until hit brother attacked heaven to try cutting the Nephalem off. He even states that flat out.

Why doesn't he take Mathael on himself? Because, he tells us, he can't make himself raise his hand against his brother. Imperius is in every way humanity's enemy, he's just too much of a pansy to be anything but passive aggressive about it. Well, and now he knows that the Nephalem would break a foot off in his !@# if he tried.

Itherael even says this Act 4 when playing a Crusader (paraphrased as best as I can remember):

Sader: "Well, I'll be sure to vote in your favor when it comes to that."
Itherael: "You jest, but that day is not an impossibility."
Edited by Highlord#1105 on 5/17/2014 6:08 PM PDT
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What about in the final cut scene of Reaper of Souls, when Tyrael is talking about how the Nephalem (us) has a mortal heart, so may become corrupted? Surely Tyrael is also vulnerable to corruption then (since he too is mortal now), and with him having the most powerful weapon in all of creation, he could be a pretty challenging final boss.
But I doubt this will happen in a D3 Expansion.
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