Diablo® III

What's the logic behind making crafting no longer fun?

I'm certain many of you have found a level 70 plan for a set or a legendary and been greeted with the new 'requirements' to crafting. After patch 2.0 consolidated so much of crafting to make it more enjoyable, RoS has gone around and done the opposite of making it needlessly more complex and most importantly, just not fun.

Not only do you need to be lucky enough to get a plan to drop, you also need to be lucky enough to get the plan to craft the gem you're going to need on top of it. If you managed that, you now need to make sure you don't salvage your level 70 white items, because you'll need one of those. Then you get to start grinding a specific area to try to get the legendary crafting material. Which means you aren't doing bounties, you aren't getting your act caches, and you aren't doing rifts. Wasn't Diablo 3 supposed to get away from farming one boss over and over?

Farming Magda for 4 hours to get one Tormented Soul only to find out I can't even craft the gem I need for the set was so completely disheartening that it stopped me from playing from playing for the majority of the weekend.

So whenever I do decide to go back, I still have to grind for who knows how many hours to get the gem plan I need and then look forward to another 8 hours or more of killing Magda over and over again. And that all assumes that the first time I craft the item has a trifecta so it's actually an upgrade.

Who thought this was a good idea? Especially when we can't even trade gems or legendary crafting materials with the people in our party.
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I think games are fun when there is a goal to shoot for.

In this case if I get a pattern to drop I can now start trying to get the materials together I need. I know it will take time and commitment to get the mats I need to craft it. If I want the perfect rolls on the item I can dedicate even more time and effort into making it happen.

With all the legendaries and sets available now to be crafted I can do this over and over for all my different characters in SC, HC and soon in ladder play. This potentially gives the game a massive amount of replayability at the endgame.

I think this is what everyone was asking for and now we have it. I love the idea of being able to log on and to have a goal that I know I can work towards. If you are still playing after you finish leveling up your characters and you have played through the story then all there is to do is grind. Now you have an end goal to your grind rather than just randomly killing random stuff for random drops. Now you can optimize your builds and your gear and routes to find the most efficient farming methods for different mats.

You can still do bounties and rifts and I'm sure I will continue to do tons of them. They are definitely more fun in a group. But maybe on a night when I want some solo play I work on grinding out some mats and trying to roll some perfect legendaries. I don't see the crafting taking away from bounties and rifts. I see them as a great alternative for when you want a more structure goal to work on.

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Edited by Kezmaefele#1109 on 3/31/2014 8:13 AM PDT
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and you'd have that goal with or without the absurd grindfest of unfun requirements.
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if it makes you feel any better most of the items aren't worth crafting anyway.
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03/31/2014 08:12 AMPosted by ILikeToast
grindfest of unfun requirements


Well, this is pretty subjective. What people consider to be fun is a pretty broad range of activities. You can't assume because something is unfun to you that it is unfun to everyone else.

See Baal runs in D2.
Edited by Kezmaefele#1109 on 3/31/2014 8:16 AM PDT
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I got a set plan to drop, and I'm excited to farm the mats for it... now I have a fun purpose for playing.

The game is LESS THAN A WEEK OLD. Should you really be already finding and crafting end-game sets? That would make zero sense form a longevity stand-point. Legendary sets should be hard to make... that's the point.

As far as the gem plans, I've now had 6 of the 10 gem plans drop, and not once have I had a redundant plan drop except when I hadn't actually taught that plan to Shen yet... you will get the plans fairly quickly, as the drop rate is way higher without the AH.

One piece of your beef makes sense - farming for the leg mats... I have Born's set taught to Haedrig, which requires Born's Key from Lucius the Depraved, a rarespawn in the Cemetary of the Forsaken. The problem here is that he's easy to kill and is 50 feet from the waypoint, so all I'm doing over and over is resetting the game to see if he's in the one spot he spawns. I'm not killing a boss, I'm not going through a dungeon. I'm just entering and leaving games over and over, hoping to see a rarespawn. And now in about 7 kills I have 1 key (and he spawns maybe 1 in 5 times, if not less). That's boring, I wish the leg mat dropped from random mobs in the Defiled Crypts in the Cemetary, then maybe it would be more fun because I'd be killing monsters while farming.
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I agree the recipes are unnecessarily complex and that reduces their fun. The way I see it, the Blacksmith is just there to smash crafting ingredients for the Mystic. I'm not going to use him for making new items because it's way too much hassle.
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I complained about all the unfun requirements to craft yesterday. I got a mix of sympathetic agreement and fanboys telling me to quit being lazy and grind for the RNG materials. The point is that it's not fun right now. You find a legendary plan, get all excited and then "HAHA" you can't craft the item without spending 4-5 hours grinding for the other materials. It's somewhat anti-climatic.
Edited by Cannabidiol#1402 on 3/31/2014 8:23 AM PDT
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I stopped crafting tbh. When I realized all the work just to craft and item and farming. Then that item may not even be that good when you craft it!?!

I just went back to rift runs. If one of those insanely rares happen to drop, I'll craft it. Otherwise I am not going out of my way for crafting.
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Yeah they have to get rid of the legendary crafting materials. They are a slap in the face for set finders. Will probably never craft any new legendary or set.
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They are kinda annoying, but I can live with it.

But not for Sage's Journey(or w/e it's called) that's one I found. I have to farm Whimsyshire, for a chance of the RARE mob I need to spawn, for a chance for the RARE crafting material I need to drop.
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03/31/2014 08:12 AMPosted by ILikeToast
grindfest of unfun requirements


See Baal runs in D2.


you mean the thing I already addressed and blizzard has repeatedly said since D3's launch they didn't want people to do?

03/31/2014 07:52 AMPosted by ILikeToast
Wasn't Diablo 3 supposed to get away from farming one boss over and over?


And people did Baal runs in D2 not because it was the most "fun" but they did it because it was the most efficient becauses bosses had higher drop rates in D2. Your logic is as sound as Saying the GAH was fun, just look at all the people who used it!

03/31/2014 08:18 AMPosted by MoonUnit
I got a set plan to drop, and I'm excited to farm the mats for it... now I have a fun purpose for playing.


so was I, until I saw how low the drop rates were. I expected at least something similar to Key Wardens, which is already a bit frustrating of a drop rate but at least reasonable. And it sounds like you had the same effect, once you actually started grinding you saw how boring it was.

If the drop rate was similar to Key Wardens, I'd at least feel as though I wouldn't be "wasting" time by doing the other 4 bounties after killing magda.

03/31/2014 08:18 AMPosted by MoonUnit
As far as the gem plans, I've now had 6 of the 10 gem plans drop, and not once have I had a redundant plan drop except when I hadn't actually taught that plan to Shen yet... you will get the plans fairly quickly, as the drop rate is way higher without the AH.


so because you're lucky it's okay? i've gotten 2 in ~40 hours or so since RoS launched last week.
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See Baal runs in D2.

you mean the thing I already addressed and blizzard has repeatedly said since D3's launch they didn't want people to do?


The point is people like different things. You like toast. I like toast. But my daughter doesn't like toast.

I see the crafting mats farming as something alternative you can do if you prefer that over farming bounties and rifts.

Who is to say which is more efficient and even more subjectively which is more fun. Right now there are posts on the front page saying T6 chest runs are the fastest way to get uber geared. I don't know...maybe... maybe not. Either way, you have a choice on how you want to play.
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After playing a lot for a week I can tell you that the craft-able armors are not worth it right now.

-No guaranteed affixes (no guaranteed int on Wizard, for example)
-Mats relatively rare to farm (this differs from mob to mob)
-no extra effects like the "good" legendaries.

So essentially, you are gambling for a maximum of 200 stats (assuming lowest roll on rare and highest on legendary). For a lot of mats that you could be using elsewhere (especially the Forgotten Soul with Enchanting). It might be change in the future so at least 1 affix is determined, but until that happens crafting Legendary should be near the bottom of your priority list.

If you inspect my monk's Gloves, Bracers, and Necks (not sure if Reforge shows up), you can see that they are pretty close to perfect statwise, but they took literally hundreds of repeated gambling/looting each, as well as Enchanting to match. Unless you have someone playing your account 24 hours a day, I don't see this as being a remotely good investment for your resources.
Edited by Avermra#1219 on 3/31/2014 8:53 AM PDT
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the only thing about crafting which is illogical is the need of high tier gems to craft one item
(e.g. some of those set items which are actually random and have bogus set boni)
at least atm I see no reason for anyone to craft any of those set items and even less to craft it more than 1 time to reach satisfying rolls on it
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03/31/2014 08:46 AMPosted by Kezmaefele
Either way, you have a choice on how you want to play.


I don't have a Choice. I don't choose if I get the gem plan I need. I don't choose where the legendary material drops from.

I have the "choice" of doing exactly what Blizzard has been stating they've been trying to avoid or pretending that crafting doesn't exist and having no viable way to gear my alt characters beyond starting from ground 0.
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I'll keep it short.

RNG for plan, RNG to find the gems which tend to be rather high quality and cost multiple millions of gold, RNGs for the item specific mat that seems to average about 10+ hours of grinding a single boss, and RNG for each stat to be good. That's about 4 sets of RNG. That's FAR too much considering when the gems are taken into account it can be over 24 hours of gameplay to find all the mats. This is far too much time spent to create an item that's 60% weaker than 80% of the rares I've found in Act 5 on launch day. After all that RNG, we should be guaranteed stats that are above a certain threshold. All things factored in, these take more RNG than any other item in the game.
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I think games are fun when there is a goal to shoot for.
.

You are right, but this is exactly why the current crafting system is not especially fun. When I need to farm Item X a 1000 times, that I can plan for and I know I come closer to my goal. But farming a special enemy that only spawns rarely for an Items that is dropped rarely for a day, you have no Idea If you come closer to your goal or not. Do you need to farm for another day? Two weeks? half a year?

Currently there is too much random involved in the game, and you have no chance of escaping it (eg. Trading).

My Idea would be to use the blood shards to trade for specific things. Let us trade 300 blood shards for a leg crafting mat. And let us trade 20,000 blood shards for a specific legendary.
Edited by tsu#1245 on 3/31/2014 9:12 AM PDT
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03/31/2014 09:03 AMPosted by Kougeru
I'll keep it short.

RNG for plan, RNG to find the gems which tend to be rather high quality and cost multiple millions of gold, RNGs for the item specific mat that seems to average about 10+ hours of grinding a single boss, and RNG for each stat to be good. That's about 4 sets of RNG. That's FAR too much considering when the gems are taken into account it can be over 24 hours of gameplay to find all the mats. This is far too much time spent to create an item that's 60% weaker than 80% of the rares I've found in Act 5 on launch day. After all that RNG, we should be guaranteed stats that are above a certain threshold. All things factored in, these take more RNG than any other item in the game.

^this, too much random
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IMO I think the crafting is a god send (wearing mostly crafted set gears currently). I know there are tons of better Legendaries out there but since my luck of getting decent/usable Legs is mostly whack, i'd rather be able to farm something and roll for a Set item that i can 100% get for sure (altho sometimes with bad stats, already on my 3rd hallowed hold)
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