Diablo® III

ww is toooooooo weak

04/21/2014 02:12 PMPosted by Kaputt
04/21/2014 02:10 PMPosted by soci
Expecting WW to be a primary T6 dps skill with Windshear rune as an option imo is a bit wishful thinking.


So we should all spec into HOTA and be done with it? I'd like more options than that.


Yes I would like more options, but right now HOTA is only a option for Fire. You have more than just HOTA imo because Jagged Spear ain't shabby, but almost all the high dps spenders are fire. As is Earthquake, also all the > normal fury generators are fire. Do you see what I'm getting at here, there's a lot of viable fire builds if you go into it some because the big dps spenders are all fire. Some are just less played because people may not enjoy throwing spears or don't have the gear for EQ.

Also cindercoat to make it so much easier that you won't even need the extra fury fire generators. Fire is just king right now.

You have most of your EQ set done, you've got little to no problems as it is.
Edited by soci#1609 on 4/21/2014 2:25 PM PDT
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04/21/2014 01:58 PMPosted by Mormega
04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
...

This is actually a topic I've been meaning to post on for a while, but hadn't found a good opportunity yet. Now's as good a time as any, I suppose!

When we did a pass on elemental damage types across skills during the Closed Beta for Reaper of Souls, the Barbarian class was one that received the most revision. While we arrived at a place much closer to where we were aiming, we think there's room for some additional adjustments. I don't have details on exact changes to share at this time, but it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


I'm glad and worried at the same time.

You shouldn't be glad. That means they will HoTA fire rune to arcane. I don't know any arcane barb yet, that means they are underperforming and therefore they need a buff.
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The discrepancy in elemental viability is due to certain uniques skewing the balance, not skill types.

We need MORE build enabling uniques.

Poor balance of elemental types does not excuse ww under performing either. The high damage fire rune for ww is trash. The only viable ww rune is wind shear since it makes the cost of fury negligible. Ww costing it's listed amount of fury is one of the worst skills in the game. It deals no dmg, drains your whole fury bar, and doesn't proc enough to make it worth using outside its low dmg.

It's in a terrible place outside of wind shear making it cost no fury. It's a broken skill and if blizzard thinks "it's in a good place" then I need to go back to path of exile.
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Oh great, all i got from that is WW is always going to be bad and they are going to change the fire skills we have now to another element so we have to regear again,
Edited by supertact#1321 on 4/21/2014 2:43 PM PDT
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Buff WW proc rates
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Whatever happened to ALL specs are viable to use at ANY difficulty?
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04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


Uhm, that is something that i am actually afraid of. Stacking elemental gear just to have your damage skill suddenly change element does not sound like fun to me.
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04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
04/21/2014 01:12 PMPosted by soci
WW is not imo a huge issue but the fact that lightning/cold/non-fire builds all perform poorly and aren't really good compared with fire.


This is actually a topic I've been meaning to post on for a while, but hadn't found a good opportunity yet. Now's as good a time as any, I suppose!

When we did a pass on elemental damage types across skills during the Closed Beta for Reaper of Souls, the Barbarian class was one that received the most revision. While we arrived at a place much closer to where we were aiming, we think there's room for some additional adjustments. I don't have details on exact changes to share at this time, but it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


And all of this means existing skills will be nerfed, to make WW look more viable, or that we will have to salvage our fire dmg gear, and farm a new set of elemental gear.

So considering previous changes, id prefer it if you didnt change anything about barbs current skills. I really hate to have to worry about my skills/gear being the same way when i wake up the next day.
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WW needs a re-evaluation. Most of the runes on it are clearly very unappealing except for the fury generating one. Why? Because barbs have to constantly worry about fury. Most of the runes need changes to promote different WW builds and fury costs on these runes need to be reduced. If not, enjoy seeing people run lightning WW barbs because that's all you'll get if barbs don't get their hands on sets.
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04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
I don't have details on exact changes to share at this time, but it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


God help me.

I have put a lot of time into my Lightning and Fire barbs.

For the love of baby Jesus pls don't invalidate existing builds by changing the EXISTING elemental type of some skills. It's cool to add some but...changing existing ones will make this a rough transition for some.
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04/21/2014 01:04 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Ancient Spear, on the other hand, is tuned the other way around (better at single target, less than ideal at multi-target) as it's (generally) a single-target skill.

If you place yourself well, Ancient Spear definitely hit more targets than WW. WW's aoe is barely bigger than HotA. And definitely smaller than Seismic Slam, which has a bigger aoe, more damage AND a better proc rate.
The only advantage of WW is mobility, which IS pretty nice, but not enough to be so much behind on all other points imo.
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04/21/2014 01:55 PMPosted by Steven
Last but not least WW does feel week and is the funnest ability for the class IMO. Give us a legendary to buff it. Seems like a fair trade. A reason not to use whirlwind (Don't have the gear, want to use another piece for that slot) and a reason to use it-> it's powerful and fun.


We do have Hexing Pants which are pretty darn close to a WW specific legendary, I would of course like more though.
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04/21/2014 01:04 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Using Whirlwind as your exclusive damage dealer on Ghom is going to have lower performance when compared to something like Ancient Spear because it's designed to hit multiple targets. Whirlwind is the type of skill that performs exponentially better the more targets it's able to hit, and less well on single targets. Ancient Spear, on the other hand, is tuned the other way around (better at single target, less than ideal at multi-target) as it's (generally) a single-target skill.


The problem is WW also underperforms on crowds. I can 2-shot a crowd of things with ancient spear using jagged edge with bloodshed and area effect %. WW offers nothing close to that, and the mobility does not make up for the range. HOTA and SS provide either more damage or a bigger cone in comparison to ancient spear. WW provides a small AOE and mobility v. the ability to annihilate a pack from afar.

Ghom SHOULD be an opportunity for WW (or any spender) to shine because it's a fight that offers unlimited fury. That it's losing out, substantially, to fury generators is kind of an issue, particularly when most of those generators offer an AOE option of some sort.
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04/21/2014 03:20 PMPosted by Pri
04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
I don't have details on exact changes to share at this time, but it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


God help me.

I have put a lot of time into my Lightning and Fire barbs.

For the love of baby Jesus pls don't invalidate existing builds by changing the EXISTING elemental type of some skills. It's cool to add some but...changing existing ones will make this a rough transition for some.


I don't think they're going to make smash same or less dps, but EQ might change(don't nerf please buff), as might Ancient Spear, as might rolling thunder. Fire will still be top dps and Lightning still stuns, but there might be some closer values. That's going to be a good thing for build diversity. There really aren't a lot of non-fire builds out there given Cindercoat, fury generation all being fire oriented and Fire's extra dps to skills like Overpower, HOTA, EQ, etc. Probably a cold generator and maybe buffs to lightning generators.

Right now Barbs only have a few viable builds, so no nerfs, please buff. This goes for other class which skew fire heavily like DH.
Edited by soci#1609 on 4/21/2014 3:32 PM PDT
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This is a huge oversight by Blizzard, I can't believe they don't see it.
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This sounds like terrible news. I'm fully expecting a nerf to Fire and having to re-gear and re-enchant everything. I'm not exploiting Unity, Gloves of Worship, old SoH and yet I'm going to be punished all the same.

Same old crap Blizzard, getting tired of it.
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04/21/2014 03:28 PMPosted by soci
04/21/2014 03:20 PMPosted by Pri
...

God help me.

I have put a lot of time into my Lightning and Fire barbs.

For the love of baby Jesus pls don't invalidate existing builds by changing the EXISTING elemental type of some skills. It's cool to add some but...changing existing ones will make this a rough transition for some.


I don't think they're going to make smash same or less dps, but EQ might change(don't nerf please buff), as might Ancient Spear, as might rolling thunder. Fire will still be top dps and Lightning still stuns, but there might be some closer values. That's going to be a good thing for build diversity. There really aren't a lot of non-fire builds out there given Cindercoat, fury generation all being fire oriented and Fire's extra dps to skills like Overpower, HOTA, EQ, etc. Probably a cold generator and maybe buffs to lightning generators.

Right now Barbs only have a few viable builds, so no nerfs, please buff. This goes for other class which skew fire heavily like DH.


id love to see other elemental damages get some buff. But the issue is, with their current "trade off" like freeze or stun, the moment their damage is ANYWHERE near fire damage, EVERYONE will just FUNNEL into the new "FOTM" and it will be the same exact thing except now players who want to play fire feel gimped because their skills do sligjtly more damage but have no other special effects.

Unless they remove all the good perks from Frost / Lightin skills also. They will also have to account for all the legendary items that interact with those crowd control effects.
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<span class="truncated">...</span>

I don't think they're going to make smash same or less dps, but EQ might change(don't nerf please buff), as might Ancient Spear, as might rolling thunder. Fire will still be top dps and Lightning still stuns, but there might be some closer values. That's going to be a good thing for build diversity. There really aren't a lot of non-fire builds out there given Cindercoat, fury generation all being fire oriented and Fire's extra dps to skills like Overpower, HOTA, EQ, etc. Probably a cold generator and maybe buffs to lightning generators.

Right now Barbs only have a few viable builds, so no nerfs, please buff. This goes for other class which skew fire heavily like DH.


id love to see other elemental damages get some buff. But the issue is, with their current "trade off" like freeze or stun, the moment their damage is ANYWHERE near fire damage, EVERYONE will just FUNNEL into the new "FOTM" and it will be the same exact thing except now players who want to play fire feel gimped because their skills do sligjtly more damage but have no other special effects.

Unless they remove all the good perks from Frost / Lightin skills also. They will also have to account for all the legendary items that interact with those crowd control effects.


Nobody's going to funnel into lightning or cold, unless there is a resource change, I mean cindercoat is build defining. You're missing that in what you think will change. As long as there is no cindercoat equivilant for other elements you can buff non fire skills to 10-15% more and it would still be fire on top.

Having played a DH before Barb I can tell you that prior to the pets buff, Cindercoat was godcoat. Fire will still remain top dps in runes as long as utility is there in other runes, but something like Ancient spear which has no lightning rune I can see getting swapped to lightning, since there is no competition there. There might be also some buffs to the other damage runes so it's not just useless, such as HOTA runes. Cindercoat is the solution to a ton of fire build's fury problems and has % damage boost on top of it. The legendary affix is worth at 5-6 dps slots. I really hope nothing gets nerfed, but I doubt anyone who's in fire and got a Cindercoat is going to change specs.
Edited by soci#1609 on 4/21/2014 3:55 PM PDT
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04/21/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Nevalistis
it's likely you'll see some skills, and not just for the Barbarian, shift around their elemental type in a future patch.


which means we will nerf fire builds, to the same boring and weak lvl as everything else
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04/21/2014 03:46 PMPosted by Hyperactive
...

I don't think they're going to make smash same or less dps, but EQ might change(don't nerf please buff), as might Ancient Spear, as might rolling thunder. Fire will still be top dps and Lightning still stuns, but there might be some closer values. That's going to be a good thing for build diversity. There really aren't a lot of non-fire builds out there given Cindercoat, fury generation all being fire oriented and Fire's extra dps to skills like Overpower, HOTA, EQ, etc. Probably a cold generator and maybe buffs to lightning generators.

Right now Barbs only have a few viable builds, so no nerfs, please buff. This goes for other class which skew fire heavily like DH.


id love to see other elemental damages get some buff. But the issue is, with their current "trade off" like freeze or stun, the moment their damage is ANYWHERE near fire damage, EVERYONE will just FUNNEL into the new "FOTM" and it will be the same exact thing except now players who want to play fire feel gimped because their skills do sligjtly more damage but have no other special effects.

Unless they remove all the good perks from Frost / Lightin skills also. They will also have to account for all the legendary items that interact with those crowd control effects.


Definitely many good points. However, what I would like to see in WW is a slight increase in either dmg or procing of gear skills AND fury reduction in the less appealing runes (all except for clearly one lol).
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