Diablo® III

Interesting: Aughild's over Cindercoat?

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Hi All,

Taking a quick peak at my fire barb:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/KevinTSmith-1394/hero/19906924

I am currently doing about 12 min clears of T4 rifts with this build:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/barbarian#WZUXfR!edZh!cZcYbc

I think my gloves are clearly my weakest piece of gear. I have a thought but would like to get some further opinion before tossing away mats testing:

- Replace gloves w/ Asheara's (havent found better and thousands of shards w/ no magefists)
- Replace Shoulders w/ Aughild's
- Replace Cindercoat w/ Aughild's

The last one is the biggie. I can't replace my helm or bracers because that's where all my mitigation and fury solutions come from. So the big question is whether or not 3 piece Ashearas + 3 piece Aughilds better than 3 piece Ashearas + cindercoat?

Assuming a good rolls all around here's the difference:

Cindercoat/3xAshearas:

25% fire resource reduction
19% fire damage

3xAughilds/3xAshearas:

7% melee reduction
7% ranged reduction
15% elite reduction
15% elite damage
100 AR (aughilds chest roll)

Let's say the 19% fire and 15% elite damage a wash. Basically we're talking about trading the 25% resource cost for a lot of mitigation. The only thing that's stopping me is the constant worry of fury issues without having one of the 3 end game sets. I have terrible set luck and am not close on any of them (I have 2 Raekor's...0 IK and 0 MoTA). Right now I have zero fury issues but taking away the 25% could cause some.

It's not like I can just make these changes overnight, it will require some work, but to me...on paper at least...it seems worth the effort of testing out. Hard to imagine replacing a well rolled cindercoat on a fire barb but that's why we are here asking...

What are your thoughts?
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/21/2014 9:49 PM PDT
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I run with aughild cinder coat and ik. Why choose one over the other?
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If you're using frenzy you have fury issues. But imo drop the Ash set, you get more out of cindercoat and you don't have like unity combo. Ash set really performs the best if you got like unity combo on one of your followers.
Edited by soci#1609 on 4/22/2014 12:07 AM PDT
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04/22/2014 12:04 AMPosted by soci
If you're using frenzy you have fury issues. But imo drop the Ash set, you get more out of cindercoat and you don't have like unity combo. Ash set really performs the best if you got like unity combo on one of your followers.


I guess it's worth considering swapping out Skull of Resonance for Aughild's Spike and then going with shoulders for the 3 piece. Thinking about it more I think that might be the way to experiment rather than dropping the Cindercoat. Does the mitigation/DPS increase of 3 piece Aughild's out perform Skull of Resonance? Charm has 100%+ uptime and works on all non-boss elites. My theorycrafting says it out performs mitigation wise but the extra 15% damage is the key.

For the sake of science I'll keep you updated. Going to try the Aug helm/shoulders with Asheara's gloves/pants. I don't have Unity but I may as well take the bonus if I can get it. My gloves are nothing special to keep.

When I say "I don't have fury issues" what I really mean to say is I don't have any fury issues other than elongated single target DPS fights. I have frenzy specced for rift bosses mainly...it performs performs well in those situations, especially with TF equipped. I would prefer to go SK/Sankis but my SK is a low roll (18%) and TF outperforms it.

I hate to say this and call me crazy if you disagree but I've reached a point gear wise where the only that's going to solve my issues/put me at the next level is end game sets. I can nickel and dime my gear for better rolls and that will obviously help and maybe even get me into T5 but without IK/MoTA/Raekor's T6 isn't happening unless I unity cheese.
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/22/2014 5:34 AM PDT
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Personally, I would drop Asheara (not sure why people favor this set, for the follower bonus?) if you are going to lose Cindercoat and go with 2pc of BT (Body + Legs). Yes you lose Reapers Fury gain, but you have Luts so you can use Earthen Might for 45 Fury per Leap every 10s (less with CDR). Then use Aughild 2pc+ring (Shoulders, Bracers). BT also tends to roll nicely, so with just 1 re-roll you can easily get:

STR/VIT/AR+3 socket on the body and STR/VIT/+Life%+2 socket on the legs.

That would give you 25% elite dmg +/-, some vit, -7% melee/ranged damage.

Cindercoat is nice imo, but it is not something I would consider a pillar of any build. I regularly swap it out when I need more mitigations or to accomodate a set. You also have room for Magefist to help make up some of the damage loss.
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I like Asheara's because I had nothing better for a long time. The AR and 20% hp aren't bad versus just using regular leg items in those slots. A few things:

1 - Find BT set. I've only found 3 pieces ever and they were all trash.

2 - Gamble or Find Magefists. I've spent thousands of shards trying. I have more St. Andrew's Souls than I care to admit.

For now I think I'm better off crafting gloves and a helm and rolling 3 piece Asheara's, 3 piece Aughild's, with Cinder and Reapers. How would I gain 45 fury per leap with Earthen Might? I don't have MoTA. I'm getting 45 per 3 leaps every CD. That's not enough to drop Reaper's...I think I'll be hard pressed to replace them right now without more fury sources. Leap is nice but I'm not sure it's enough. If I find some decent BT or Magefists I would certainly try to incorporate them. They should make a 30 for 30 about my terrible set finding luck! I'm trying to optimize with what I have until I get the set items I want/need which at this rate will be never.

Edit - I suppose I could throw in Avalanche/Volcano with Earthen might but I always found that skill unreliable and I think that nerfs my build pretty hard.
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/22/2014 6:06 AM PDT
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Hmm yeah I forgot Earthen Might required the MotE set for the full fury gain. You're lucky you haven't found a lot of BT set! They are generally the easiest setpiece to find and while they are not horrible, we have a running nick for them as BlackTrolls or Trollthornes because its just a disappointment when you see the green beam only to find it is BT in your bag. I have found they usually roll well tho, the Body may look like crap with just VIT but its is easy to roll it off and get STR. Always comes with 3sock and often comes with +healthglobe too. Similar for the leg, almost always STR/VIT and either +Life% or +Regen, which you can roll off for 2 sockets.
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For a fire hota barb, i'd recommend Aughilds + captain crimsons.

Crimson 10% cooldown and 10% resource bonus, plus 50 AR and 2k life per second is very very good for HOTA builds. This way you keep your cindercoat, have room for magefist, and get to use aughilds along with your reapers.

Best part about crimson is that you can fill it with Belt + Pants. Here's what I would do

Crimson belt + pants
Lut socks
Magefist
Aughild Shoulder + Helm OR Bracer
Cinder coat

Skull of resonance is cool, but ultimately there will be better alternatives.

The nice thing about aughild helm is that often you will get CC reduction as a secondary which is big when you are not running WOTB.
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Interesting suggestion with the Captain's Crimson. I am currently running that on my Crusader w/ belt/boots so I already have a nicely rolled belt. Not thrilled at the prospect of running sewers for a couple hours for more Twin Seas Essence but I may give that a shot.

Based on all the discussion and thinking further you are all right, Aughild's 3 piece is probably better than Skull of Resonance and Asheara's. Looks like I have a lot of farming and crafting to do tonight. Life would be so much more enjoyable if literally any IK or MoTA would drop....seriously...ANY pieces!
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/22/2014 7:35 AM PDT
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04/22/2014 07:17 AMPosted by KevinTSmith
Interesting suggestion with the Captain's Crimson. I am currently running that on my Crusader w/ belt/boots so I already have a nicely rolled belt. Not thrilled at the prospect of running sewers for a couple hours for more Twin Seas Essence but I may give that a shot.

Based on all the discussion and thinking further you are all right, Aughild's 3 piece is probably better than Skull of Resonance and Asheara's. Looks like I have a lot of farming and crafting to do tonight.


Going to buck the trend - Asheras all the way! - Id keep the 2 set (3 with ring). pants and shoulder ... your going to have a hard time exchanging that mitigation unless its by some torment only set.

I play HC and being alive is important :)

Cindercoat is too strong atm to give up - it is suggested something will change in the future (nerf skills/coat) but until then - cindercoat will be hard to give up.
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I don't think Asheara's can beat Aughild's.

Asheara's (3): 20% hp and 100AR

Aughild's (3): 7% reduction, 15% elite reduction, 15% elite damage

Captain's Crimson (3): 2000 regen, 10% CDR, 10% RCR, 50 AR

Keeping in mind you can only have 2 of these bonuses if I want to keep my Cindercoat/Reaper's/Lut Socks combo. If I were to ditch the Lut Socks I could have all 3 but I'm not sacrificing my Air Nubs. Aughild's and Crimson give the best results. Here's what I am going to shoot for:

Aughilds Helm: STR, VIT, AR, CC (CC reduction/PUR)
Aughilds Shoulders: STR, VIT, AR, Life % (Health globe/PUR)
Captain's Crimson Belt: STR. VIT, Life %, Armor/Frenzy (PUR/freeze on hit or single resist)
Captain's Crimson Pants: STR, VIT, AR (Life after kill, PUR)

Overall I am going to lose about 150 AR but I will still be over the 70% mitigation mark and I will gain the Captain's and Aughild's set bonuses and I'll actually gain HP having VIT on my helm instead of a socket w/ life %. It will suck losing my helm of resonance charm but couple everything together and I am expecting a big survivability boost as well as a DPS boost against elites.

Now if only I was at home farming and crafting instead of working...
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/22/2014 9:35 AM PDT
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The only problem with Aughild is the helm slot is prime with a lot of options like skull of resonance, if I could be fire I would run Skull, but as lightning I absolutely 100% need reapers. Even as fire, I might want to go reapers. Skull is higher and more powerful mitigation if you can get it to land but it's only major problem is that it's not as reliable as aughild, which is always on. The elite damage is pretty great too. I always try to figure out a way to get Skull back into my build because it is a game changing item for mitigation.

I also rolled a really good aug helm which means I have to find a skull just as good, the only thing I think I would change on it is the vit to HOTA damage.
Edited by soci#1609 on 4/22/2014 10:15 AM PDT
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Aughild's is great. I saw a profile where Aughild's bracer rolled with another 7% reduction to ranged and melee! I'll link it if I can find it again. I've been crafting Aughild's shoulders lately trying to get the str/vit/allres/globes roll but failing badly.
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04/22/2014 10:14 AMPosted by soci
The only problem with Aughild is the helm slot is prime with a lot of options like skull of resonance, if I could be fire I would run Skull, but as lightning I absolutely 100% need reapers. Even as fire, I might want to go reapers. Skull is higher and more powerful mitigation if you can get it to land but it's only major problem is that it's not as reliable as aughild, which is always on. The elite damage is pretty great too. I always try to figure out a way to get Skull back into my build because it is a game changing item for mitigation.

I also rolled a really good aug helm which means I have to find a skull just as good, the only thing I think I would change on it is the vit to HOTA damage.


You hit the nail on the head. To get the 3 piece Aughild's bonus I have to drop Cindercoat, Reaper's, or Skull of Resonance and honestly all 3 are great items but unfortunately I'd probably rank them in that order of importance to a fire build. If I get some extra mats I'm going to try and roll Aug's bracers and go without Reaper's but I am anticipating massive fury issues if I go that route. I also have a decent roll on my Skull but not ideal. Ideally I'd want STR, AR, CC, HoTA w/ CC reduction as secondary.

We can theory craft all day but it's going to take some experimenting but I'm 95% sure Aug/Reapers will beat Aug/Skull due to fury.
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Alrigtht a quick update:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/KevinTSmith-1394/hero/19906924

New gear is working out nicely. Got some decent rolls to start but will need to do a bunch of re-crafting to hone it in while working towards end game sets:

- Aug Helm: Perfect roll property wise. Little low on VIT.
- Aug Shoulders: Solid roll but prefer % life to OP. Will recraft eventually.
- Crimson Belt: Arcane Resistance blocking AR roll...need to recraft
- Crimson Boots: Terrible. Using soley for the bonus right now. Want STR/VIT/AR/HOTA/Health globe
- Asheara's Gloves: Solid but prefer CHD over AR and the secondary could be better. Will recraft.
- Asheara's Pants: Good roll. Happy with this for now.
- Will also swap a diamond for another ruby.

Going to reroll in order of badness to get perfect stats: Boots --> Gloves --> Belt --> Shoulders.

Overall a pretty successful crafting night. Still cutting through T4 like a hot knife through butter but I have a feeling T5 is still going to be a PITA and not efficient. Will test it out tomorrow!

Anyone want to hang out in the sewers? Ha :)

edit: typo
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/23/2014 6:07 AM PDT
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I'm puzzled as I have better gear than you yet I find T4 annoyingly slow, although I prefer to kill everything in a rift to maximise my legendaries per token.
The main difference seems to be furious charge and ruthless, so I'll have to give them a go tonight.
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Aughilds is so sub-optimal for barbs atm. Mainly because of the item slots it takes up.

Helm, Bracers, Chest.

Helm: there's nothing better than a 20% fire, 15% HoTA Andariel's Visage. Thats already 35% more dmg on whites AND elites.

Bracers: 20 Fire/6CC Reaper's Wraps. Best bracers by far.

Chest: Cindercoat with 20% fire and 30 RCR.

The shoulders are fine but what are you gonna do with 1 piece? Going 2 pc Asheara with Shoulders and Pants will net you better and cheap survivability.

You're giving up at least 2 of these for just a 15% elite dmg. When even 1 piece with 20% fire gives you even more that that. Plus, you're forced to use RoRG when you can just use a Unity that gives the same +elite without even using the set.
Edited by Kid#6555 on 4/22/2014 11:11 PM PDT
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04/22/2014 10:31 PMPosted by BigPimpin
I'm puzzled as I have better gear than you yet I find T4 annoyingly slow, although I prefer to kill everything in a rift to maximise my legendaries per token.
The main difference seems to be furious charge and ruthless, so I'll have to give them a go tonight.


Can't stand it when people open with "I have better gear".....Do you have better gear?

I see 281 AR with 2000 less vitality with literally half the toughness. No CHD on either ring, low CHD on your ammy, virtually the same sheet DPS and fire bonus (You have more HoTA bonus). IK set is nice for but your complete disregard for your mitigation is the reason you are struggling. Juggernaut is garbage...try ruthless or a defenisve passive to help with mitigation. Lastly why do you have 5 rubies socketed when you have toughness issues? Try some diamonds.

So in short...no you do not have better gear. Sorry. But if you take some of those recommendations you will breeze through T4...stop ignoring your mitigation.
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04/22/2014 11:08 PMPosted by Kid
Aughilds is so sub-optimal for barbs atm. Mainly because of the item slots it takes up.

Helm, Bracers, Chest.

Helm: there's nothing better than a 20% fire, 15% HoTA Andariel's Visage. Thats already 35% more dmg on whites AND elites.

Bracers: 20 Fire/6CC Reaper's Wraps. Best bracers by far.

Chest: Cindercoat with 20% fire and 30 RCR.

The shoulders are fine but what are you gonna do with 1 piece? Going 2 pc Asheara with Shoulders and Pants will net you better and cheap survivability.

You're giving up at least 2 of these for just a 15% elite dmg. When even 1 piece with 20% fire gives you even more that that. Plus, you're forced to use RoRG when you can just use a Unity that gives the same +elite without even using the set.


I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. There is a reason that a significant number of barbarians use Aughild's: because it's a great set for 2 slots w/ RORG. Let's start at the beginning:

- Andy's is not BiS for a barbarian. If you need that extra 20% DPS on trash then you are playing on the wrong torment level. You should be 1-2 shotting most trash. Elite % is calculated after fire so it's effect is more profound on mobs you need DPS for...elites. Example: Say you have 100% fire DPS that is 200% damage to mobs with fire skills. If you have 80% fire and 15% elite damage that's 180% on trash and 1.8 x 1.15 = 2.07 or 207% damage vs elites. That's a 7% DPS increase on elites not to mention the fact you take MORE damage wearing Andy's. IMO BiS helms include set items (for bonuses) and Skull of Resonance (best mitigation from one item slot).

- Cindercoat/Reapers are both very good. With late game sets Reapers are replaceable but Cindercoat is still BiS.

- I currently am getting 3 set bonuses using RoRG: Asheara's, Aughild's, and Captain's Crimson all by replacing my Skull of Resonance w/ an Aughild's helm. The rest of the gear is the same. I'm getting 7% missile/melee reduction, 15% elite reduction, 15% elite damage, 150 AR, 20% HP, 2000 LPS, 10% CDR, 10% RCR from wearing my RORG so yeah...it's better than unity. Unless you're talking double Unity cheese which is obviously better now but will be getting nerfed.

I just did my first round of crafting to get the current gear I am wearing so it's not the best example but it's still solid. Some of the pieces are missing a slot and will need to be recrafted (all of them but the belt/helm really). Not interested in being a full glass cannon...other classes do that better.
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/23/2014 5:24 AM PDT
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Kevin, your barb is looking awesome man. I agree with everything you wrote. 15% elite damage always beats out 20% elemental damage in terms of DPS to elites.

Mine is set up very similarly, but since I am a lightning build, I am not limited by cindercoat. I use Aughilds chest and Shoulders and a Lightning Andy's for the time being, but I have also crafted a Crit chance Aughilds with HOTA dmg.

Unfortunately, my belt slot is occupied by T-Gods, so I am only running 2 sets worth of bonuses. I have found the Asheara's followers bonus to be very useful from a utility perspective. It is a bit like having a poor man's IK set.
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