Diablo® III

Suvivability Guide: Why Life Pool Hoarding is BAD!

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Basic Problem: Itemization
You can never go for meaningful Life On Hit or Life / Second Values, because you will alway lose a Primary Affix on a Item. And then, you always lose more than you gain.

So, you gear up with Max Armor / AllRes
You can't tune this and you can't deny it. With better Gear, you will simply get more of it.

And then you Vita and % Life.
You will gain WAY more than getting LoH or LpS on your Gear.

The only way you can gear - with maybe some spezifik Build like Lifeleech Dogs @WD.

Defence Conzept of D3 is just Simpe and Crap - even in HC.
awesome break down. thank you
I think OP is overcomplicating things. It has really nothing to do with how much life pool you have, all you have to do is stacks enough mitigation and it will be fine.

If both players have the same amount of all res and amour. Having more life is always better.
04/22/2014 10:45 AMPosted by Gulcasa
If both players have the same amount of all res and amour. Having more life is always better.


Except I would choose an offensive roll at that point over Vitality/HP+% so I could kill quicker, but that's my own preference.

Also, more life doesn't exactly contribute when you fight in a way that makes it so you barely lose life in the first place. This is the ideal result this discussion presents, but the reality of it is it takes a lot of hyper-condensing Toughness for it to actually get to that point, and diminishing returns will eventually rear its head to make you second-guess tossing out that last bit of Vitality on your gear. (At that point, it might even be fine to keep it there.) Still, it's a fine goal to work towards.
Is there a calculator that exists for this? I know there are toughness calculators but I guess they don't really tell you the real story. Math hurts my brain.

Or perhaps some sort of broad guideline for what stats to aim for to survive efficiently in each torment level? :P
I actually run 850k Health on my Wizard, with 16 Million Toughness. Yeah. It takes a lot more for me to die than anyone I party with. I just stand and deliver while being barraged by tons of puny demons~

The thing you must realize, is you can never get 100% reduction, so when you are surrounded by a large amount of enemies, you're taking that 50,000 damage before healing, quite a few times a second, and in higher Torments, you won't be able to keep up a high Healing, High Toughness and High Damage. If you just go for healing and toughness, you lack the damage to "Kill Quickly."
I can bump my toughness to 22 million and only go from 950k Damage to 880k, and my life goes up to 960k, If I need to. Think of this as well, if you can balance resists, armor, and health like I did, then it's a lot better to be slowly whittled away, because eventually, you Pot, boom 60% of ~900k healed back, and they will slowly bring you back down, which by then, Pot, boom 60% again.
Now, I do have a little life on hit and after kill, but Life on hit gets nerfed at 70, so it heals not very much, and on kill... Well if you're fighting a boss like Maltheal, you're going to die quickly by only relying on Armor and AR.
My Crusader has over a million health, and her toughness is over 30 million whenever she's in game.

Her damage is at 350k in-game, and she kills things fairly fast due to her decent life on hit / attack speed build.

She literally never dies up to Torment 3, sure, her clearing time isn't fast at all, but she's more of an AoE clearer anyways, I perfer to literally run around a bit, gather as many mobs as I can, then just BLessed hammer / Slash spam everything into oblivion. Ontop of that, she has the free Nephilim Orbs, that give her lots of free lightning damage on hit everywhere, with her Wyrmward ring (I think this works, maybe it's just my blessed hammers and lighting slash) she basically stuns jsut about EVERYTHING around her.

She's not my wizards dps, but she sure as hell takes alot more of a punch. I am currently working on gearing her followers, due to the Ashera's Set letting me summon them constantly, my Mage's Enchantress alone can get up to 400k dps, if I can get my Crusader, my Enchantress, and my Scdounrel all geared up, the up-time on my Ashera's might will extremely offset my characters lack of damage, while still being able to tank perfectly fine.
Edited by Nyaria#1556 on 4/29/2014 7:10 AM PDT
04/18/2014 11:09 AMPosted by flyingbunnys

I would also like to add that 1 Vitality = 80 life I believe, can anyone confirm?

that's what the tooltip says :o
Toughness/HP stat

I think it's been mentioned about a Toughness/Healing stat but imo perhaps even simpler is a Toughness/HP stat on the stat sheet.

This way you can help educate players that they need ~15 toughness per hp and ~300k health instead of 4.5 million toughness. It's not as precise as something more abstract but at a quick glance there is a huge difference between 10 toughness per hp vs 15-20.
Edited by soci#1609 on 5/5/2014 3:23 PM PDT
I have to disagree with the OP.

Speaking as a wizard (who has lots of AR by default), mitigation stats are too weak for this to work.
An item with 500 VIT gives me 3-4x the toughness of the same item with 100 AR.

In your example you compare 5M toughness @ 500k live to 5M toughness @ 200k live.
If I'd dedicate as many stat slots to defense, but prioritize VIT and Life% over AR and Armor, I would probably end up with about 8M toughness @ 500k life.

Also, for your low life pool to make any sense, you need lots of healing.
This means another 4+ stat slots dedicated to LoH and LR.
If I ignore healing and invest this 4+ slots in more defense, I'd probably sit at 10M toughness @ 600k life.

So in the end the choice comes down to:
1.) being able to stand in plagued and consecration indefinitely or
2.) having to move out of ground effects, but being able to survive double the burst damage.

I don't know about you, but i prefer number 2.
07/06/2014 01:07 AMPosted by MaxPower
I have to disagree with the OP.

Speaking as a wizard (who has lots of AR by default), mitigation stats are too weak for this to work.
An item with 500 VIT gives me 3-4x the toughness of the same item with 100 AR.

In your example you compare 5M toughness @ 500k live to 5M toughness @ 200k live.
If I'd dedicate as many stat slots to defense, but prioritize VIT and Life% over AR and Armor, I would probably end up with about 8M toughness @ 500k life.

Also, for your low life pool to make any sense, you need lots of healing.
This means another 4+ stat slots dedicated to LoH and LR.
If I ignore healing and invest this 4+ slots in more defense, I'd probably sit at 10M toughness @ 600k life.

So in the end the choice comes down to:
1.) being able to stand in plagued and consecration indefinitely or
2.) having to move out of ground effects, but being able to survive double the burst damage.

I don't know about you, but i prefer number 2.


You definitely have it right. The itemization restrictions currently make this an almost impossible task to do well. This worked very well in D3 vanilla. Personally speaking, I had 9-12k hp, tons of Str, Int, All Res, Armor, and Regeneration stacked on almost all of my gear and I was an absolute tank. I did not even bother using Vitality. Mostly because it cost a ton more on the AH.
07/06/2014 01:07 AMPosted by MaxPower
I have to disagree with the OP.

Speaking as a wizard (who has lots of AR by default), mitigation stats are too weak for this to work.
An item with 500 VIT gives me 3-4x the toughness of the same item with 100 AR.

In your example you compare 5M toughness @ 500k live to 5M toughness @ 200k live.
If I'd dedicate as many stat slots to defense, but prioritize VIT and Life% over AR and Armor, I would probably end up with about 8M toughness @ 500k life.

Also, for your low life pool to make any sense, you need lots of healing.
This means another 4+ stat slots dedicated to LoH and LR.
If I ignore healing and invest this 4+ slots in more defense, I'd probably sit at 10M toughness @ 600k life.

So in the end the choice comes down to:
1.) being able to stand in plagued and consecration indefinitely or
2.) having to move out of ground effects, but being able to survive double the burst damage.

I don't know about you, but i prefer number 2.


There are several factors

What torment u play on solo or team. How much dps are u giving up to survive and how fast u can clear is important.

Int classes do not value AR due to int naturally providing AR.

In fact I try to stack armor with a single resist ( i prefer lighting or fire ) whenever possible on my wiz n reduce elite/melee/ranged damage reduction.

Energy armor gives my armor 35% boost. 25% more resists.

There is no fixed rule.

The more resist/armor u have. The more valuable your vit/life %/healing becomes.

Paragon points also come into play. A paragon 600 can naturally stack less defensive stats on gear than say a paragon 300.

Healing and regen will be buffed in 2.1

And of cos the popular unity builts means u can stack even less defensive stats while solo.

Gearing for survival is about having the optimum stats possible for each slot.
This is a very well planned out idea. i try not to go over 500k life but then again most of my toons toughness with paragon average 15mil. i may have to drop some of the vita for more resistance and armor. i have thought about this but at the 15m point vita impacts toughness ALOT.
07/06/2014 02:42 AMPosted by Proshank0104
This is a very well planned out idea. i try not to go over 500k life but then again most of my toons toughness with paragon average 15mil. i may have to drop some of the vita for more resistance and armor. i have thought about this but at the 15m point vita impacts toughness ALOT.


400k -500 hp feels like the sweet spot.

The toughness stat is misleading.

Vit increases a large amt of toughness but doesn't say as much about your actual ehp.

Just stack what is most optimum for the slot
04/29/2014 07:07 AMPosted by Nyaria
My Crusader has over a million health, and her toughness is over 30 million whenever she's in game.

Her damage is at 350k in-game, and she kills things fairly fast due to her decent life on hit / attack speed build.

She literally never dies up to Torment 3, sure, her clearing time isn't fast at all, but she's more of an AoE clearer anyways, I perfer to literally run around a bit, gather as many mobs as I can, then just BLessed hammer / Slash spam everything into oblivion. Ontop of that, she has the free Nephilim Orbs, that give her lots of free lightning damage on hit everywhere, with her Wyrmward ring (I think this works, maybe it's just my blessed hammers and lighting slash) she basically stuns jsut about EVERYTHING around her.

She's not my wizards dps, but she sure as hell takes alot more of a punch. I am currently working on gearing her followers, due to the Ashera's Set letting me summon them constantly, my Mage's Enchantress alone can get up to 400k dps, if I can get my Crusader, my Enchantress, and my Scdounrel all geared up, the up-time on my Ashera's might will extremely offset my characters lack of damage, while still being able to tank perfectly fine.


This thread was MADE for you, so please try re-reading it. You made a post explaining exactly the OPPOSITE of what you should be doing, and what this post entails.

Made me laugh quite a lot...
07/06/2014 01:07 AMPosted by MaxPower
I have to disagree with the OP.

Speaking as a wizard (who has lots of AR by default), mitigation stats are too weak for this to work.
An item with 500 VIT gives me 3-4x the toughness of the same item with 100 AR.

In your example you compare 5M toughness @ 500k live to 5M toughness @ 200k live.
If I'd dedicate as many stat slots to defense, but prioritize VIT and Life% over AR and Armor, I would probably end up with about 8M toughness @ 500k life.

Also, for your low life pool to make any sense, you need lots of healing.
This means another 4+ stat slots dedicated to LoH and LR.
If I ignore healing and invest this 4+ slots in more defense, I'd probably sit at 10M toughness @ 600k life.

So in the end the choice comes down to:
1.) being able to stand in plagued and consecration indefinitely or
2.) having to move out of ground effects, but being able to survive double the burst damage.

I don't know about you, but i prefer number 2.

We have a necromancer.
Edited by DrunkTank#1318 on 7/6/2014 6:56 AM PDT
Thank you very much. After reading this, I pretty much replaced vitality with resist on all of my gear and instead of dieing on T2, I melt stuff on T3.
What the necro?
Survival should be all about the teams classes and the teams builds such as who has stuns or freezes with individual finesse for skill bar activated based defence skills. Toughness is completely spastic and has utterly failed in every possible way as a global indicator in RoS that your character has gone well beyond the required DPS of T6 and your survival has hit an all time low similar to that of when you were a naked level 1 walking to the Gates of New Tristram even though your chronic Asperger's tells you everyday how you do "50billion fire deeps" on your Demon Clusterarrowspamscrubhunter and die from 1 lightning bolt from the Lightning Storm boss prefex but still it kills !@#$ super fast so how can u be ded lel.

Some players are so far gone on the aspect of toughness in RoS Rifting that they can never be saved and provide constant line ups of !@#$ characters that are being carried daily by people who actually use Diamonds in their loot sockets to prevent constant death and enhancing up time during boss encounters. Just the other day I seen a Marauder Demon Hunter lectured on the ideals of toughness in a T6 rift and that 3 million was no where near enough which just resulted in the offending party flinging incoherent abuse towards the player preaching this games new %^-* survival mechanics.
Edited by Xeper#1410 on 7/28/2014 11:33 PM PDT
This is only true if you're not relying healing that's based on a % of your life, such as Demon Hunter's healing vapors, potions, health globes, brooding, and several other skills.
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