Diablo® III

CRUS not finished :( But Barb stuff .....

I had a SK too with only 1K9 dps. But I was doing more dps with my 2370 dps TF thanks to the proc.
So I prefer an better overall damage than a little gain on elite. (already playing with 40-50% elite damage depending on gear)
But yeah, except TF, I think SK is better than anything else.
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04/17/2014 07:23 AMPosted by Aldween
I had a SK too with only 1K9 dps. But I was doing more dps with my 2370 dps TF thanks to the proc.
So I prefer an better overall damage than a little gain on elite. (already playing with 40-50% elite damage depending on gear)
But yeah, except TF, I think SK is better than anything else.


I think you're right but it really depends on the roll. A perfect SK is going to beat just about anything other than a perfect TF and that's obviously due to the proc. As a fire barb though a perfect SK/Sankis is the way to go if you can get it.

My MMS is fun for killing trash and it's viable for now but yea...wouldn't say no to a Sankis, better rolled SK, Devastator, or TF should one happen to drop...maybe one day...please...RNG...<3
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/17/2014 7:30 AM PDT
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1. The elemental bonus shield is amazingly bad. In a few days maybe we'll hear how good Ivory Tower is.

2. Magefist is a nice Forgotten Soul. Every single good fire build has better options for gloves.

3. Harrington? Maybe if you play solo and you don't need IK belt.

4. Sun Keeper is very good.

5. The Furnace didn't seem to do much when I tried it.
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04/17/2014 07:47 AMPosted by zapro

2. Magefist is a nice Forgotten Soul. Every single good fire build has better options for gloves.


I agree but a nicely rolled 5 piece Magefist is pretty nice until you can find set items to replace it. That of course would require set items to drop and well...you know how that can go...
Edited by KevinTSmith#1394 on 4/17/2014 8:00 AM PDT
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04/17/2014 08:00 AMPosted by KevinTSmith
04/17/2014 07:47 AMPosted by zapro

2. Magefist is a nice Forgotten Soul. Every single good fire build has better options for gloves.


I agree but a nicely rolled 5 piece Magefist is pretty nice until you can find set items to replace it. That of course would require set items to drop and well...you know how that can go...


Obviously, you can only use what you have.
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Manner, loved your Crusader vids, any chance I could get a link to Crusader gear/spec? thanks so much!
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Hey Manner, I am rerollnig to barb too, I loved my crusader but recently put his gear on my barb, had ridiculous survivability and did more DPS.

I hope they buff Saders more in the future, seems so underwhelming compared to barbs... should have seen the light earlier.
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Harrington is absolute must have in the belt slot for all classes --


Swap item. ;)
Edited by Bunter#1904 on 4/17/2014 10:29 AM PDT
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04/17/2014 06:18 AMPosted by Nubtro
Hey MC why do you think Lidless is the way to go, care to explain? I think the shield rolls 2 useless primary affixes for LeapQuake - cost reduction and attack speed. I do have a lidless (both physical and fire) and would only consider it for a Spear build (spear+shield grants a hidden multiplicative attack speed bonus).

Agree on Harrington, but it´s a bit tricky in party play cause if more players wear it, they will steal each others "chests". It´s similar to how Warzechian are less useful when your party members break em objects.

Here is a little calc I just did in hopes of getting an idea about different weapon setups for LeapQuake.

MAXIMUS
vs DEVASTATOR / SANKIS
vs SUN KEEPER + SANKIS
vs DEVASTATOR / SANKIS + LIDLESS

Maximus
2402.5 average damage
+20% fire skill damage
+1150 strength
+130% crit damage (socket)
+13,371 life after each kill
+summon Demonic Slave

Devastator
1795.0 average damage
+20% fire skill damage
+750 strength
+130% crit damage (socket)
+8914 life after each kill
+2.6% crowd control on hit

Sankis
1699.5 average damage
+20% fire skill damage
+750 strength
+130% crit damage (socket)
+8914 life after each kill
+ignore pain-like proc

crit chance: 48/54
- base, paragon, helm, amulet, gloves, bracers, ring 1-2*, shield*
- optional - battle rage, weapons master, wotb
crit damage: *5.3 - 5.8 - 6.6 - 7.1 (300/350 + 130/260)
- base, paragon, amulet, gloves, ring 1-2*, weapon 1-2*
*SoJ - either crit chance or crit damage
*2H or DW or 1H+shield
fire skill: 80% + 20/40%
- amulet, bracers, cindercoat, soj, weapon 1-2

vs elites (crit chance SoJ)
sunsank = 1795.0 * (0.54 * 6.6 + 0.46) * 2.0 * 1.6 = 23,113.856
maximus = 2402.5 * (0.54 * 5.3 + 0.46) * 2.0 * 1.3 = 20,750.873
devasank = 1795.0 * (0.54 * 6.6 + 0.46) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 20,658.0088
devalid = 1795.0 * (0.64 * 5.3 + 0.36) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 19,261.6424
sanklid = 1699.5 * (0.64 * 5.3 + 0.36) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 18,236.85864

vs elites (crit damage SoJ)
sunsan = 1795.0 * (0.48 * 7.1 + 0.52) * 2.0 * 1.6 = 22,562.432
maximus = 2402.5 * (0.48 * 5.8 + 0.52) * 2.0 * 1.3 = 20,638.436
devasank = 1795.0 * (0.48 * 7.1 + 0.52) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 20,165.1736
devalid = 1795.0 * (0.58 * 5.8 + 0.42) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 19,425.9208
sanklid = 1699.5 * (0.58 * 5.8 + 0.42) * 2.2 * 1.3 = 18,392.39688

The calcs (100% weapon damage) don´t include strength. DW or 1H+shield grant 350 more strength than 2H. They also don´t include the damage increased by skills modifier group - I am assuming the same values for both specs, unless you opt for Weapons Master, which would make axe/mace MH perform better, considering you play in a party with many damage bonuses where the 8% sword bonus is not so strong.

Also, the difference between a crit damage and crit chance SoJ is not that huge and the crit damage one is slightly preferred if you opt for Lidless.

I can´t quantify the Maximus proc nor the Sankis ignore pain proc, but on paper maximus vs devasank are pretty even while sun keeper should outperform both against elites. I´d even go as far as to say that something like a Thunderfury with its damage and debuff proc is not a bad choice either.

EDIT: Btw. did anyone come across Furnace in RoS? Wouldn´t that be the best choice for T5-6?


Hi Nubtros,

Okay first you guys are all failing to realize a very key aspect of creating a "T6-efficient build".

It's not all about YOLO DPS'ing and pushing it to it's max potential, at end-game progression you also must consider your EHP and TRUE DPS.

When I say TRUE DPS, I mean the ability to soak damage and NOT kite/move in any situation will outweigh doing 10-15% more damage at ALL TIMES.

Doesn't matter if you do 25% more theoretical DPS, if your unable to keep that DPS constant during actual gameplay. I will go further detail into these kind of things in the future as I progress my barb and actually get to test the LIVE version of ROS as a barb.

Now as impressive the numbers are for DW vs Maximus when only looking at the weapons individually may be.

You have to think about the big picture.

You don't do any DPS, if your dead
You also do less DPS, if your kiting


When the unity gets nerfed (which I fully expect it will), EHP for T6 will have to be optimized into gear.

There is one quick simple fix to that, wearing parthan defenders (less dmg when enemies stunned) and running the stun leap instead of pull.

In doing this you will lose strongarm proc though, which is a flat 30% damage loss since these bracer's buff is nearly up at all times in a optimal EQ build.

Now with that all said here is why Lidless + Sankis will be extremely competitive among all these setups and MAY end up being the weapon setup of choice for most optimal FIRE-EQ farming setups @ T6.

A perfectly rolled LIDLESS imo would look like this

750 STR
10% CC
7% AIS
20% FIRE
12 MAX FURY (auto secondary roll)
29,713 Health globe or REDUCE CC
20% Block

Reduce CC is absolutely monsterous of a secondary stat (you should have minimum two secondary rolls on gear as reduce CC as a barbarian, berserker is such a waste of skill slot in an EQ set where you are thinking optimal gear that reduce CC is extremely effective vs fear,frozen,jailer etc...

Health globe is self explanatory.

These are secondary stats that CAN NOT be rolled on weapons.

When you go a fire EQ-barb, you are sacrificing a LOT of primary rolls for ELE% damage rolls on gear, the more fire % rolls you have, the more primaries you are sacrificing.

This EHP must be made up on gear one way or another, the parthan is like I mentioned already a quick fix in adding EHP.

The Lidless is a straight up beast EHP boost that allows you to not have to sacrifice the pull of your leap and allow you to roll with strongarms for the 30% BUFF.

As for the SOJ, the soj I have is NEAR perfect roll outside of secondaries, 50% CD > 6% CC, especially if you go with a lidless build that boosts your CC by 10% vs 130% CD.

Also I have a FURNACE, but I can't test anything until the EQ set is finished on my barb.

I have literally every single fire piece I need with near optimal stats, I'm just waiting to get the 4 piece EQ SET.

KEEP IN MIND I HAVEN'T TESTED YET, BUT OPBARB IS COMING SOON.
Edited by MannerCookie#1105 on 4/17/2014 4:13 PM PDT
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04/17/2014 07:47 AMPosted by zapro
1. The elemental bonus shield is amazingly bad. In a few days maybe we'll hear how good Ivory Tower is.

2. Magefist is a nice Forgotten Soul. Every single good fire build has better options for gloves.

3. Harrington? Maybe if you play solo and you don't need IK belt.

4. Sun Keeper is very good.

5. The Furnace didn't seem to do much when I tried it.


1. wrong

2. wrong again

3. your bad

4. this is okay

5. dumb
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04/17/2014 01:35 PMPosted by MannerCookie
04/17/2014 07:47 AMPosted by zapro
1. The elemental bonus shield is amazingly bad. In a few days maybe we'll hear how good Ivory Tower is.

2. Magefist is a nice Forgotten Soul. Every single good fire build has better options for gloves.

3. Harrington? Maybe if you play solo and you don't need IK belt.

4. Sun Keeper is very good.

5. The Furnace didn't seem to do much when I tried it.


1. wrong

2. wrong again

3. your bad

4. this is okay

5. dumb


l2p
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Teach me
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You two are hilariously cute together in one thread ;)

04/17/2014 01:33 PMPosted by MannerCookie
A perfectly rolled LIDLESS imo would look like this

750 STR
10% CC
7% AIS
20% FIRE
-40% Crowd Control
29,713 Health globe
20% Block

Reduce CC is absolutely monsterous of a secondary stat (you should have minimum two secondary rolls on gear as reduce CC as a barbarian, berserker is such a waste of skill slot in an EQ set where you are thinking optimal gear that reduce CC is extremely effective vs fear,frozen,jailer etc...

Health globe is self explanatory.

These are secondary stats that CAN NOT be rolled on weapons.

Heh I have 65.77% CC reduction and Ice Climbers and run without WotB so I know about the importance of CC reduction. It´s the #1 best secondary stat. I don´t even notice CC currently exists unless it´s the annoying knockback.

You should** be able to get enough between the helm (which doesn´t have any other useful secondary stat anyway) and 1-2 jewelry pieces. Yes jewelry rolls health globe bonus, but so do boots, shoulders and chest. I really wish it was possible to get perfect items but the primary/secondary system limits us. Note that I don´t have as much experience as you guys with T5-6 yet so I´m not sure how much Fury heal is actually needed.

**We have to use what we get and optimizing an item may not be always possible.

I´m just saying, the situation without having such a shield is not hopeless regarding those two secondary stats. I admit 20% block may come in very handy and I am fully aware that high torment is a sustain check more than a damage one, but it takes considerable luck getting those rolls, because you will 100% have to reroll a primary stat (cost reduction) and base block % is beyond our reach, in which case you might be better off with something like the thunderfury debuff and another stat like vitality or area damage or cooldown reduction on TF.

Hmm wait, you can only have one of CC reduction/globe bonus on Lid because the other is max fury bonus.

Btw. I think soon we will need a BiS discussion with all parties involved.

EDIT: Stormshield with 30% melee reduction, 11% elite damage reduction and a higher block chance is a defensive beast if you don´t mind losing the fire skill damage bonus. It´s just sad that Lidless has pre-set 2, or even 3 (if we inlude max fury) useless stats for a LeapQuake spec.

As I mentioned earlier, it´s much more suited for a Spear spec.
Edited by Nubtro#2147 on 4/17/2014 4:01 PM PDT
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WHY THE HELL would you want to stack CC reduction if you're planning to play a Leap build? Are you kidding me?

Is 1 button that hard to press?
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04/17/2014 03:52 PMPosted by Nubtro
You two are hilariously cute together in one thread ;)

A perfectly rolled LIDLESS imo would look like this

750 STR
10% CC
7% AIS
20% FIRE
-40% Crowd Control
29,713 Health globe
20% Block

Reduce CC is absolutely monsterous of a secondary stat (you should have minimum two secondary rolls on gear as reduce CC as a barbarian, berserker is such a waste of skill slot in an EQ set where you are thinking optimal gear that reduce CC is extremely effective vs fear,frozen,jailer etc...

Health globe is self explanatory.

These are secondary stats that CAN NOT be rolled on weapons.

Heh I have 65.77% CC reduction and Ice Climbers and run without WotB so I know about the importance of CC reduction. It´s the #1 best secondary stat. I don´t even notice CC currently exists unless it´s the annoying knockback.

You should** be able to get enough between the helm (which doesn´t have any other useful secondary stat anyway) and 1-2 jewelry pieces. Yes jewelry rolls health globe bonus, but so do boots, shoulders and chest. I really wish it was possible to get perfect items but the primary/secondary system limits us. Note that I don´t have as much experience as you guys with T5-6 yet so I´m not sure how much Fury heal is actually needed.

**We have to use what we get and optimizing an item may not be always possible.

I´m just saying, the situation without having such a shield is not hopeless regarding those two secondary stats. I admit 20% block may come in very handy and I am fully aware that high torment is a sustain check more than a damage one, but it takes considerable luck getting those rolls, because you will 100% have to reroll a primary stat (cost reduction) and base block % is beyond our reach, in which case you might be better off with something like the thunderfury debuff and another stat like vitality or area damage or cooldown reduction on TF.

Hmm wait, you can only have one of CC reduction/globe bonus on Lid because the other is max fury bonus.

Btw. I think soon we will need a BiS discussion with all parties involved.

EDIT: Stormshield with 30% melee reduction, 11% elite damage reduction and a higher block chance is a defensive beast if you don´t mind losing the fire skill damage bonus. It´s just sad that Lidless has pre-set 2, or even 3 (if we inlude max fury) useless stats for a LeapQuake spec.

As I mentioned earlier, it´s much more suited for a Spear spec.


Stormshield is def an option if we need to take it even further, but at that point might as well go pantheon and go DW or maximus

and you are correct about the secondary, I made a mistake about one secondary = max fury

also i checked with a shield, you can also roll -7 melee/ranged on shield as secondary too.

so perfect roll is

max fury = 12
globe = 29,000 OR -7 MELEE
Edited by MannerCookie#1105 on 4/17/2014 4:14 PM PDT
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04/17/2014 04:11 PMPosted by zapro
WHY THE HELL would you want to stack CC reduction if you're planning to play a Leap build? Are you kidding me?

Is 1 button that hard to press?


press more buttons
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Those numbers are super helpful! I've been trying to decide if I should hunt down a sankis and dual wield over my maxi and I'm glad to see that theyre pretty much equal. I'm playing hota and I bet I could use the extra attack speed and do better. Either that or a lidless because I have a soft spot in my heart for s&b lol
Has anybody seen a well rolled lidless? Seems !@#$ing impossible to find
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Have you done much testing regarding what "endgame" barbarian builds performs best in high level torment rifts MC ?

We are 7 barbs (atm) in the ZE clan, and we have done some comparisons with different group setups, between the two "mainstream builds" we're left with after SoH fix.

And let me tell you, i don't find the leap eq build all that impressive when we look at the numbers.. among a few other things these numbers include single target dps and average dps over an entire rift.

I can give you one hint: ("monks are in a good place":)

In a properly group setup you gonna kill way to fast before you get the full effect from eq..

Instant-damage > damage over time

But don't let me stop you, carry on :D
Edited by Det0x#2856 on 4/17/2014 4:53 PM PDT
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04/17/2014 04:38 PMPosted by Det0x
Have you done much testing regarding what "endgame" barbarian builds performs best in high level torment rifts MC ?

We are 7 barbs (atm) in the ZE clan, and we have done some comparisons with different group setups, between the two "mainstream builds" we're left with after SoH fix.

And let me tell you, i don't find the leap eq build all that impressive when we look at the numbers.. among a few other things these numbers include single target dps and average dps over an entire rift.

I can give you one hint: ("monks are in a good place":)

In a properly group setup you gonna kill way to fast before you get the full effect from eq..

Instant-damage > damage over time

But don't let me stop you, carry on :D


good hint

but SOLO and GROUP

are not the same game

pro tip
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WHY DO CHESTS COST 50 RARES TO REROLL FFS

WTB -7 MELEE

T_T
http://i.imgur.com/3ElnDcO.jpg
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