Diablo® III

Can SOH Charged Bolt stack?

If you stick real close to champs, I've noticed that you can't see any charged bolt... does that mean all 3 bolts can hit the same target?

Edit 2: Just tested and all 3 bolts can hit the same target, at least if the hit box is big enough.

I've done some additional testing and found that Weapon Throw: Mighty Throw kills Ghom faster than Frenzy: Smite EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Mighty Throw kill time: 35 +-1 s
Smite kill time: 38 +-1 s
My SOH Charged Bolt Damage = 230

Theoretical Frenzy damage (5 stack) with SOH: [155 + (230 x 3 x 0.75)] x 1.75 = 1177
Theoretical Mighty Throw damage: 270 + (230 x 3) = 960

Since Mighty Throw outperformed Frenzy even though it had lower theoretical damage output, it would appear that there is a cap on how often SOH can proc (=Internal Cooldown). Now lets take a closer look:

Observed Frenzy: Smite damage = 35/38 x 960 = 884
884 / 1.75 (frenzy AS bonus) = 505
505 - 155 (smite damage) = 350 (SOH proc damage)
350 / (230 x 3) = 0.51 = 51% (SOH proc rate observed during my test)

This means that SOH only procced ~50% per hit instead of 75%.

50/75 = only 2/3 of the hits that "should have procced" actually procced.

My APS: 1.68
Frenzy APS at 5 stack = 2.94

2/3 = x/2.94

where x = Max number of SOH proc per second, capped by game

x = approx 2

Conclusion: SOH can only proc max 2 times per sec.
Edited by mintCookie#6238 on 4/21/2014 1:51 AM PDT
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I haven't tested to see if all 3 bolts will do damage but yes. I stand on top of the target to make sure they all hit. Similarly, with WW I make very small back and forth moves rather than big circles. This way, any shart procs land on the targets.

I have no idea if landing 3 bolts on a single target makes a difference. Things usually melt at the T level i play.
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Just tested and all 3 bolts can hit the same target, at least if the hit box is big enough.

You can visually confirm 4 separate damage numbers on the screen, but I did a little testing just to make sure:

T3 Ghom

HOTA: Thunderstrike (+28% HOTA damage bonus on gear, Empowering shrine + Superstition = Max Fury during the whole fight = Extra 24% Crit bonus) = 41 sec kill

Frenzy: Smite = 55 sec kill

Weapon Throw: Mighty Throw = 52 sec kill (Standing at melee range to Ghom)

So it seems SOH + good fury generator can deal almost identical damage against single target as HOTA if we can stack 3 bolts. Interesting find :)
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04/20/2014 05:25 PMPosted by mintCookie
If you stick real close to champs, I've noticed that you can't see any charged bolt... does that mean all 3 bolts can hit the same target?

Edit: Just tested and all 3 bolts can hit the same target, at least if the hit box is big enough.

You can visually confirm 4 separate damage numbers on the screen, but I did a little testing just to make sure:

T3 Ghom

HOTA: Thunderstrike (+28% HOTA damage bonus on gear, Empowering shrine + Superstition = Max Fury during the whole fight = Extra 24% Crit bonus) = 41 sec kill

Frenzy: Smite = 55 sec kill

Weapon Throw: Mighty Throw = 52 sec kill (Standing at melee range to Ghom)

So it seems SOH + good fury generator can deal almost identical damage against single target as HOTA if we can stack 3 bolts. Interesting find :)


why even use hota? just use bersaker rage and spam weapon throw, I can get ghom down in 16 sec for t3 :) with bersaker rage and only use fury generater u acutally deal more damage than using hota
Edited by MINIKONG#6191 on 4/20/2014 8:00 PM PDT
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yes they can all "stack together".

im currently using a raekor + SoH build. the goal is to group crap together with raekor charge and dump hammers on their !@#. the charged bolts have a small splash wherever they hit so even if its not perfectly packed together, they all die pretty quickly. if its a single target just frenzy or weapon throw (still not sure which one feels better... keep rotating on that) and dump hammers as fit (mostly to heal because the damage is very similar to the generators anyways).

additionally, with charge you can clip inside the monster hitbox... similarly to how whirlwind can spin inside a monster hitbox. this makes it extremely easy to dump all of the charges into a single target.

to note:

first off a blue made a post specifically about the interactions of SoH -- the SoH has a chance to proc on skill activation AND ALSO on monster hit. that means if a skill has a proc coeff of 75% and you hit 1 monster with it, there is a {1-[(1-.75)(1-.75)]} = 93.75% chance to proc.

cleave = 80% proc coeff
frenzy = 75% proc coeff
weapon throw = 100% proc coeff
hota = 67% prof coeff
earthquake = 8% proc coeff
overpower = 33% proc coeff
whirlwind = 13% proc coeff
~~i think thats all the lightning skills

that in mind... either the blue was wrong or maybe you were lucky with the weapon throw run. im rather surprised frenzy didnt outdamage weapon throw.

anyways, if the blue was right, hitting a target, SoH should proc 15/16 hits with frenzy, 8/9 times with HotA (higher chance if hitting multiple targets), and 100/100 times with weapon throw.

assuming you land all 3 bolts everytime it procs, you are essentially ADDING 3* your shard of hate proc damage to your skill... and then multiplying that by your lightning skill damage. its very strong... and why a hota at 535% damage ends up feeling very similar to a weapon throw at 270% damage... especially because HotA ends up NOT activating SoH 1/9 casts on a single target (on average).

the damage is still nowhere near 'stellar', but it was an improvement to my fire raekor build. NOTABLY strong in single target dps where i am no longer 'reliant' on HotA to do damage. im still not sure if this build can carry its weight to t6 -- as in, i dont believe the end-game lightning hota loadout would ever even *approach* fire might of earth levels... but for now... it makes t4 very easy and t5 *doable*.
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SoH doesn't proc on hit, the blue was wrong. They said too they put an ICD, wrong too, there is none, you can proc 2 or 3 times a second on a single target.
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04/21/2014 12:06 AMPosted by Aldween
SoH doesn't proc on hit, the blue was wrong. They said too they put an ICD, wrong too, there is none, you can proc 2 or 3 times a second on a single target.


soh can proc tf lighting :)
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Soh lightning can't proc TF/OS proc.
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04/21/2014 12:18 AMPosted by Aldween
Soh lightning can't proc TF/OS proc.


it can, just try to just use your soh bolt to hit minions, u will see the tf proc from there.
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Ssshhhh...

Guys, tone it down a bit. Blizzard might... You know.
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Thanks for the insight Sancerre.

I've done some additional testing and found that Weapon Throw: Mighty Throw kills Ghom faster than Frenzy: Smite EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Mighty Throw kill time: 35 +-1 s
Smite kill time: 38 +-1 s
My SOH Charged Bolt Damage = 230

Theoretical Frenzy damage (5 stack) with SOH: [155 + (230 x 3 x 0.75)] x 1.75 = 1177
or if the blue's quote from Sancerre's post is correct: [155 + (230 x 3 x 0.9375)] x 1.75 = 1403

Theoretical Mighty Throw damage: 270 + (230 x 3) = 960

Since Mighty Throw outperformed Frenzy even though it had lower theoretical damage output, it would appear that there is a cap on how often SOH can proc (=Internal Cooldown). Now lets take a closer look:

Observed Frenzy: Smite damage = 35/38 x 960 = 884
884 / 1.75 (frenzy AS bonus) = 505
505 - 155 (smite damage) = 350 (SOH proc damage)
350 / (230 x 3) = 0.51 = 51% (SOH proc rate observed during my test)

This means that SOH only procced ~50% per hit instead of 75%.

50/75 = only 2/3 of the hits that "should have procced" actually procced.

My APS: 1.68
Frenzy APS at 5 stack = 2.94

2/3 = x/2.94

where x = Max number of SOH proc per second, capped by game

x = approx 2

Conclusion: SOH can only proc max 2 times per sec.
Edited by mintCookie#6238 on 4/21/2014 2:13 AM PDT
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04/21/2014 12:32 AMPosted by MINIKONG
04/21/2014 12:18 AMPosted by Aldween
Soh lightning can't proc TF/OS proc.


it can, just try to just use your soh bolt to hit minions, u will see the tf proc from there.

Already tested. It can't. You need to hit a mob with your skills to proc TF/OS.

@mintCookie : wrong again.
Take a frenzy shrine, put max AS on your gear, use wotb. 3.40/3.21 aps for me. Use weapon throw, it procs everytime. So your statement is wrong.

Edit :
I just wanted to do the same test you did. Ghom in T3. I guess you didnt use wotb, but I did.
5 times (not a lot I know), always same gear, I just swap frenzy to weapon throw.

Frenzy : 9-10sec kill
Weapon throw : 11-12sec kill
Edited by Aldween#2575 on 4/21/2014 9:07 AM PDT
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04/21/2014 08:37 AMPosted by Aldween
04/21/2014 12:32 AMPosted by MINIKONG
...

it can, just try to just use your soh bolt to hit minions, u will see the tf proc from there.

Already tested. It can't. You need to hit a mob with your skills to proc TF/OS.

@mintCookie : wrong again.
Take a frenzy shrine, put max AS on your gear, use wotb. 3.40/3.21 aps for me. Use weapon throw, it procs everytime. So your statement is wrong.

Edit :
I just wanted to do the same test you did. Ghom in T3. I guess you didnt use wotb, but I did.
5 times (not a lot I know), always same gear, I just swap frenzy to weapon throw.

Frenzy : 9-10sec kill
Weapon throw : 11-12sec kill


ya my bad tested again, it is my cleave that give me the impression of multi proc, by the way u sure weapon throw lose out to frenzy in ghom?
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04/20/2014 06:37 PMPosted by mintCookie
Just tested and all 3 bolts can hit the same target, at least if the hit box is big enough.

You can visually confirm 4 separate damage numbers on the screen, but I did a little testing just to make sure:

T3 Ghom

HOTA: Thunderstrike (+28% HOTA damage bonus on gear, Empowering shrine + Superstition = Max Fury during the whole fight = Extra 24% Crit bonus) = 41 sec kill

Frenzy: Smite = 55 sec kill

Weapon Throw: Mighty Throw = 52 sec kill (Standing at melee range to Ghom)

So it seems SOH + good fury generator can deal almost identical damage against single target as HOTA if we can stack 3 bolts. Interesting find :)


maybe u try take out 1 passive for bersaker rage, and just spam weapon throw only, I believe it can be faster than hota
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Why in the heeeeeeeeeeell are you using mighty throw and cleave? Pick one : /
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04/22/2014 01:02 AMPosted by DamageInc
Why in the heeeeeeeeeeell are you using mighty throw and cleave? Pick one : /


ya I using only mighty throw, try it better then frenzy :)
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I use frenzy because it stuns enemy too...
try T5 T6 w/o any CC skill, then u notice the difference
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He's using 2 generators was my point lol. You don't need Cleave with Tfury and SoH. Total waste of a passive slot.
Weapon Throw vs Frenzy....I go for Frenzy. Almost the same damage output in the end, but you get CC.
Edited by DamageInc#1208 on 4/22/2014 7:42 AM PDT
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