Diablo® III

[BUG] SoH nerf is broken (/w analysis)

Common Blizzard. Give a barb a bone. Pffffft
bump
04/17/2014 02:15 PMPosted by Sufpoidbug
04/17/2014 01:14 PMPosted by PhoenixTy
if you want to go with aoe build, then dont use SOH, why should SOH be good with every build? doesnt promote diversity.


Maybe because it was designed by the community to be a very good for lot of builds, hence the multiple proc effects? Man, don't you just look silly now?


alot of builds doesnt mean every single build, SOH was literally the ultimate weapon for every single build before nerf.
Community Manager
Because there's definitely a lot of conversation going on for this topic, it's taken me a while to zone in on the information that's really missing from this discussion.

In short, Shard of Hate has a chance to proc both on hit AND on skill use. This means that its Legendary affix can occur both when the item hits a target AND when an appropriate elemental skill is used. The chance for Shard of Hate to proc on skill use also runs through the associated skill's proc scalar. There is no other item in the game (to my knowledge) that works quite like this, so Shard of Hate is unique in that regard. It's reasonable for there to be some confusion as a result, given there's no direct comparison to other items.

Its Legendary power does also obey an internal cooldown. This functionality was previously being ignored by players who were dual wielding, but it now works correctly post-hotfix. Bear in mind you might not always see the on-hit and on-skill use proc occur back-to-back because of the item's internal cooldown.

We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment, and comparable to other on-hit items, if not a little better by virtue of the fact that it has additional opportunities to proc. Prior to the bug fixes, Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Because there's definitely a lot of conversation going on for this topic, it's taken me a while to zone in on the information that's really missing from this discussion.

In short, Shard of Hate has a chance to proc both on hit AND on skill use. This means that its Legendary affix can occur both when the item hits a target AND when an appropriate elemental skill is used. The chance for Shard of Hate to proc on skill use also runs through the associated skill's proc scalar. There is no other item in the game (to my knowledge) that works quite like this, so Shard of Hate is unique in that regard. It's reasonable for there to be some confusion as a result, given there's no direct comparison to other items.

Its Legendary power does also obey an internal cooldown. This functionality was previously being ignored by players who were dual wielding, but it now works correctly post-hotfix. Bear in mind you might not always see the on-hit and on-skill use proc occur back-to-back because of the item's internal cooldown.

We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment, and comparable to other on-hit items, if not a little better by virtue of the fact that it has additional opportunities to proc. Prior to the bug fixes, Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.


For regular hits, yes... but what about Whirlwind? Are you telling me it's working as intended?
I wonder if Blizzard tracks data on item ownership:usage ratio. IE, if SoH was used by 40% of the players who owned it, what is it now? And how does that compare with other items?

I'd hazard a guess that that % (filtering out those that have yet to log on since the hotfix) is now below extremely "mediocre" legendaries, and definitely below Thunderfury and Odyn.

So my question to Blizzard is: if it was wildly over-performing, why not re-align it to still a very high level of performance, top-tier even - but put it in line with Thunderfury? If that was indeed the intention, is there any data that can gauge success or failure in that goal? Because I think it's been rather over-shot :)
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Because there's definitely a lot of conversation going on for this topic, it's taken me a while to zone in on the information that's really missing from this discussion.

In short, Shard of Hate has a chance to proc both on hit AND on skill use. This means that its Legendary affix can occur both when the item hits a target AND when an appropriate elemental skill is used. The chance for Shard of Hate to proc on skill use also runs through the associated skill's proc scalar. There is no other item in the game (to my knowledge) that works quite like this, so Shard of Hate is unique in that regard. It's reasonable for there to be some confusion as a result, given there's no direct comparison to other items.

Its Legendary power does also obey an internal cooldown. This functionality was previously being ignored by players who were dual wielding, but it now works correctly post-hotfix. Bear in mind you might not always see the on-hit and on-skill use proc occur back-to-back because of the item's internal cooldown.

We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment, and comparable to other on-hit items, if not a little better by virtue of the fact that it has additional opportunities to proc. Prior to the bug fixes, Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.


in other words you the d3 team went agianst its word.

legendarys are nolonger legendary.

look at how many are quiting.
Blizzard's idea of balance and adjustments are very boring. I have no reason to use this weapon as is. I suppose my Monk could use it, but I'd rather play my Barbarian.
How is it not legendary? I've seen a lot of yellow weapons drop and now seem to proc lightning, poison and frost.

04/17/2014 06:30 PMPosted by Darkinsanity
Blizzard's idea of balance and adjustments are very boring. I have no reason to use this weapon as is. I suppose my Monk could use it, but I'd rather play my Barbarian.


Terrible barbarian than.
Edited by Hlidskjalf#1565 on 4/17/2014 6:33 PM PDT
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Because there's definitely a lot of conversation going on for this topic, it's taken me a while to zone in on the information that's really missing from this discussion.

In short, Shard of Hate has a chance to proc both on hit AND on skill use. This means that its Legendary affix can occur both when the item hits a target AND when an appropriate elemental skill is used. The chance for Shard of Hate to proc on skill use also runs through the associated skill's proc scalar. There is no other item in the game (to my knowledge) that works quite like this, so Shard of Hate is unique in that regard. It's reasonable for there to be some confusion as a result, given there's no direct comparison to other items.

Its Legendary power does also obey an internal cooldown. This functionality was previously being ignored by players who were dual wielding, but it now works correctly post-hotfix. Bear in mind you might not always see the on-hit and on-skill use proc occur back-to-back because of the item's internal cooldown.

We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment, and comparable to other on-hit items, if not a little better by virtue of the fact that it has additional opportunities to proc. Prior to the bug fixes, Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.


in other words you the d3 team went agianst its word.

legendarys are nolonger legendary.

look at how many are quiting.


Not many. My friend's list is still very active with both Monks and Barbs on it who use(d) the SoH, and I put very little merit into any "Goodbye" threads.

Glad a Blue updated this with their input on the matter, though.
04/17/2014 06:32 PMPosted by Hlidskjalf
How is it not legendary? I've seen a lot of yellow weapons drop and now seem to proc lightning, poison and frost.

04/17/2014 06:30 PMPosted by Darkinsanity
Blizzard's idea of balance and adjustments are very boring. I have no reason to use this weapon as is. I suppose my Monk could use it, but I'd rather play my Barbarian.


Terrible barbarian than.


Then* And just because I don't enjoy the idea of a fire Barbarian and the other builds that are doing well right now, does not make me terrible.
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis

We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment,

lol.

04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis

and comparable to other on-hit items,

double lol
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.


I mean ... theres a decent sized list of weapons that still vastly outperform. I am not listing them all because Blizzard only knows how to nerf but...

The whole reason for the uproar about this (and as per your response I know you didnt glean this) is because the proc coefficients on abilities such as Whirlwind (13% coeff), which also does laughable damage by itself, don't permit build diversity because you actually get more AoE damage from skills//procs by using Single Target abilities that have nearly 100% proc coefficients.
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We feel the item itself is in a pretty good place at the moment, and comparable to other on-hit items


You keep telling yourself that. At least the "weapon they feel is on par with others atm" is one of the rarest if not the rare - so drop-wise it won't get in the way of our glorious nailbiters, nutcrackers, echoing furies, etc.
Edited by Meioh#1725 on 4/17/2014 6:38 PM PDT
04/17/2014 06:27 PMPosted by Nudal
For regular hits, yes... but what about Whirlwind? Are you telling me it's working as intended?


yes. WW has a proc coefficient that's extremely low. something in the area of 0.08 to 0.13.
that means you will only get 8 to 13ish procs on average for every 100 hits whirlwind does.

if you were to use a skill with a coefficient of 1.0 you would get 100 procs per 100 hits.

the weapon works fine WW just has an innate low chance to proc things.
Edited by Zoidburg#1405 on 4/17/2014 6:43 PM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
11100
04/17/2014 06:24 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Prior to the bug fixes, Shard of Hate was wildly over-performing in ways far above and beyond other gearing options, and as such, was an outlier that merited some adjustment.


Why couldn't you just make other legendaries good? Why do I care about +10% movement speed on gift of silaria?
04/17/2014 06:41 PMPosted by Zoidburg
04/17/2014 06:27 PMPosted by Nudal
For regular hits, yes... but what about Whirlwind? Are you telling me it's working as intended?


yes. WW has a proc coefficient that's extremely low. something in the area of 0.08 to 0.13.
that means you will only get 8 to 13ish procs on average for every 100 hits whirlwind does.

if you were to use a skill with a coefficient of 1.0 you would get 100 procs per 100 hits.

the weapon works fine WW just has an innate low chance to proc things.


I'm okay with that explanation, what I'm not okay with is the garbage state of WW then. Clearly the under-performer isn't the weapon itself, but WW as a whole... People knew this already, but losing SoH WW was like having WW nerfed into oblivion all over again.
Community Manager
04/17/2014 06:36 PMPosted by Delkerramak

The whole reason for the uproar about this (and as per your response I know you didnt glean this) is because the proc coefficients on abilities such as Whirlwind (13% coeff), which also does laughable damage by itself, don't permit build diversity because you actually get more AoE damage from skills//procs by using Single Target abilities that have nearly 100% proc coefficients.


We haven't yet completed a full tuning pass after the launch of Reaper of Souls. While we started with a few changes to some generators and single-target skills with the 2.0.4 patch, that doesn't mean we're done with evaluating all the classes and their skills.

While I don't have exact details to share at this moment, tuning and balancing is something always being discussed amongst our developers. I'm certainly happy to carry back feedback on skills that you (or others) feel need another look, but that would be a separate case entirely from the bug fixes for Shard of Hate. A bugged weapon shouldn't be a solution to an issue with a skill - if Whirlwind or other skills need to be re-evaluated, then that should be a separate (if related) discussion, and I can certainly pass that on!
Say what ever lies u want about all these Secret nerfs . Since D3 starts and bring the game down to the toilet .

The only reason all these tricks being done is to kick people off the game because money already been collected and they want us off their servers .
04/17/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nudal
I'm okay with that explanation, what I'm not okay with is the garbage state of WW then. Clearly the under-performer isn't the weapon itself, but WW as a whole...


bingo
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