Diablo® III

How to balance PVP in RoS [WIP]

This is a work-in-progress rough draft at some possible things that need to be adjusted for a more fun competitive environment. These adjustments are aimed at making the game a little more player-skill oriented and less auto-aim and invincibility silliness.

One way to promote balance in rules is by imposing bans: items, skills, or styles which won't be allowed in a competitive setting. These bans must be made tailored to the top level of play in that top players under these restrictions can compete in a roughly equal footing provided everything else is maxed out (e.g. maximum stats and player skill). Of course, bans must be tested and in general, there must be as few bans as possible to keep the game diverse.

I will now propose a set of bans for skills, styles, and items which I have deemed to be too powerful or remove the player skill element from the game.

Item Bans:

Cloak - Blackfeather: This item is very strong against ranged attackers who use projectiles as their primary form of damage. The rockets do very high damage and home-in on the attacker from any range (even across the entire chapel). These rockets pose a great threat to other DH, Wizards and some other classes relying on projectiles in their build.

Set - Danetta's Hatred (2pc): The set bonus provided by both of these allows the DH to use Vault almost indefinitely. Due to Vault possessing many invincibility animation frames, most players cannot harm the DH with anything during Vault, including all CC abilities. Furthermore, the set also allows the DH to stun and leave a clone behind with every Vault, adding to the confusion and dispersing homing attacks. One weapon of the Danetta's set should still be allowed since the DH cannot Vault indefinitely in that case, just the use of both should be banned.

Ring - Unity: This ring has very peculiar effects when used in the chapel with other players. If only one player is using a Unity, then there is no issue. But when more than one player uses it, the effects can be absurd. To prevent the issue where both players want to use it for the stats but not the secondary effect, in fairness, both should not be allowed to use it.

Shoulders - Homing Pads: There should never be a reason to warp to town in a competitive match but the large damage reduction is often abused if a player stutter steps the portal animation during an attack by another player.

Shoulders - Pauldrons of the Skeleton King: These shoulders randomly prevent a player from death and can proc more than once in a battle. I am not sure of the internal cooldown, but death prevention adds a random unnecessary luck element to the game which should not be in a tournament. Items with a death prevention ability on a long cooldown which are not random should be fine (e.g. Firebird set bonus).

Set - Jade Harvester (6pc): This WD set bonus is only very effective versus classes such as Barbarian who cannot avoid the damage and will almost certainly be killed in a single hit. Such one-shot builds are not recommended for fun play. An alternate rule could be to simply ban the Creeping Demise passive but allow the set.

Voodoo Mask - Quetzalcoatl: This WD mask enables Haunt and Locust Swarm to do their full damage over half the duration, effectively doubling their damage! This item enables WD to build far more defensively while still delivering an overwhelming offensive game, specifically Haunt does 666% damage per second with this (compare to Rend - Lacerate 270% per second)! I am not 100% sure if this needs a ban yet, but it is on the table of considerations.

Set - Natalya's Wrath (4pc): This old legacy set grants a DH with near unlimited discipline and enables the infinite chained Smokescreen build where the DH can remain invincible indefinitely. This is by far the most broken build in PVP at the moment since one player remains 100% invincible full time!

Amulet - All Elemental Absorption Amulets: All of these amulets: Talisman of Aranoch, Countess Julia's Cameo, Mara's Kaleidoscope, The Star of Azkaranth, and Xephirian Amulet, provide an immunity to a particular element which may completely shut down a class's offensive options. For example, WD rely heavily on Poison and Cold damage, so a player using one of those amulets could remove the threat of one type of damage while stacking resistances for the other type.

Skill Bans:

This list needs a lot of work since I do not know many of the other class match-up problems (I am most familiar with DH). I do however recommend banning the Lingering Fog rune for chained Smokescreen for extended duration with enough cooldown reduction. There should always be a window for players to damage each other between activations. Also, the WD's Creeping Demise passive should be banned in some match-ups since it favors an apply it and run away strategy; which is very non-confrontational and leads to boring matches.

Style Bans:

Non-confrontational or bunker styles should not be allowed. This includes camping the western island, setting up an array of sentries or traps and not moving out of range of them, or refusing to engage another player for extended periods of time while waiting for a lengthy cooldown to refresh.

Comments:

This list of bans or restrictions is by no means a complete list and most of these have not been fully tested. I am merely writing here to post my thoughts on a step in the right direction to make the completely unbalanced "brawling" system more fun for everyone.

If Blizzard doesn't want to touch this aspect of Diablo III, then the task is left to dedicated players who want to have fun in a non-frustrating and somewhat "more fair" environment.

If you have comments or suggestions about some proposed rules or new ideas, feel free to post and we can together try to make the brawling aspect of the game more enjoyable for everyone.
Edited by Iria#1342 on 4/26/2014 12:45 AM PDT
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There are a lot of very good points that you made Iria. I think some of the bans are a lot more obvious than other (Blackfeather and Danetta's set)

And then there are some bans that you have suggested that have not been tested enough to make any clear decisions. (Banning of elemental absorbing amulet) Who knows, these might actually be a good way to balance pvp. But like i said there are not a lot of people running around with them right now so its hard to say.
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I hope Blizzard will read your post, Iria, very good point you make! As a PvP player I want to see change!

1- Make people see how much people play in a Brawling game even if they choose Monster Kill in the search bar.

2- Make arena.

3- Item drop in Hardcore! Make another duelling map called " Death Pvp Zone " something like that.
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I hope Blizzard pays enough attention to this forum to see this thread. Some very important points have been brought up, thanks for taking time to post this :)

Off topic, does everyone Brawl in private games? I did some brawling in Vanilla and really enjoyed it, I found people by searching in the public games section under 'All acts - Any Quest' function. Though since RoS hit, whenever I search in adventure mode under 'Brawling' it tells me there are 0 people playing. How do others in this community connect?

Sorry to deter from the OP but the forum seems to be fairly quiet.
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04/25/2014 10:39 PMPosted by Vulture
Off topic, does everyone Brawl in private games?


There are some clans of old PVP buddies that exist, we usually play amongst ourselves. There are some public games occasionally though.
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100 Tauren Warrior
8820
Posts: 30
this game is not pvp balanced...... in d2 things where Op.... in d3 things will be op.. if you want pvp play wow or somthing.. Dota... Lol... Not a pve farming game :P
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04/26/2014 05:12 PMPosted by Dismantle
this game is not pvp balanced...... in d2 things where Op.... in d3 things will be op.. if you want pvp play wow or somthing.. Dota... Lol... Not a pve farming game :P


I'm just trying to create some order in the chaos which is brawling. There isn't a reason players can't agree to play together by a set of rules for more competitive gameplay. Of course, these rules are only for that setting so anyone that wants to just mess around with no restrictions is freely welcome to do so. You can even make a 100M toughness Barb build and run around using the town portal all day to never die; no one will take that stuff seriously for competition though.

P.S. 2-0 gg
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Posts: 2,106
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I think it is too eager to proposed gear bans like this. The exception being banning immunity ammies. Fully agree with this. Ive been grinding my !@# off to get a full set of these, granted not all great rolls. And the problem is not so much in the disproportionate power they provide in pvp but the endless loop of build/gear switching that occurs in practice when they come into play as first one player is forced to change his build/gear to adapt to the now useless element and then the other player switching again to counter the new build and back and forth it goes.

My opinion on the rest is that yes they may be annoying (denatas) or bm (homing pads) but they can all be countered. and if a counter exists then no ban is warranted. I have done a lot of pvping now in ros and I know from my experience how to counter all the other things you mentioned. If a counter exists, no matter how specific there should be no reason to impose a restriction.

one note; I have not seen a dh with 100% uptime of smokescreen the most ive run into is maybe 30seconds or so, after which they are easy to take down due to the gimped core stats. If this is indeed true could you post the tag of a player who has achieved this. I would like to play them and see if I cant figure something out.

p.s. @dismantle you are the only one who was trollin my other thread who I didnt get a chance to add and play cause your on your wow profile. post me your battle tag so I can add you and we go 1v1.
Edited by ChuckNorris#1885 on 4/26/2014 11:09 PM PDT
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The items I proposed as bans are sometimes countered but not for all classes. For example, a Barb has no viable counter to the Jade Harvester set, if so I'd like to see it out of curiosity. Another example involves the Thunderfury versus classes like Wizard who get decimated by their effects (I am not proposing that one as a ban yet). Also, some items might only need to be banned versus certain classes and not all.

Dismantle is a troll tank barb with no real offensive capabilities. He also just runs to town portal or uses his Homing Pads to escape before most players can kill him.
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What does WiP mean?

I have tons of ideas, but its more in regard to changing skills around on the classes.

Just wanna mention this, a good pvp system with skill involved and with a good balance would be
really, really fun
Edited by Maaciboy#1493 on 5/2/2014 3:01 PM PDT
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WIP = Work in Progress (as in a draft)

The reason I don't go into skill alterations is that those are done on the developer side. I only propose changes that we the players can make to balance the game; which unfortunately means we can only choose NOT to use certain things (i.e. bans on skills, runes, or items).

My list of banned items is not 100% complete as players are continually discovering new combinations of effects, but I think I got all the obviously overpowered ones mentioned. Skill bans are far harder to implement due to several reasons:

1) Sometimes skills only seem broken because they are used in conjunction with other skills or passives. In those cases, perhaps the passive needs to be examined instead.

2) Each class has several variants of builds against other classes, some with more success than others. Banning one skill from one variant will likely push the class to use a different variant and thus not fix the problem. Conversely, banning a skill from a variant might open up the game too much to the opponent in that they will build specifically knowing that you cannot use a specific skill, thus possibly creating an unwinnable situation for you.

For example: lets say we ban Haunt because it is too strong for DH, then DH will likely stack less cold resist and more damage. Next, the playstyle of the DH would change significantly to a more patient ranged attack style keeping the WD at maximum range at all times. The WD would have almost no options to pressure the DH at that range anymore and thus would cause either a stalemate or a loss for the WD. So banning Haunt is likely too extreme unless the DH gets something banned as well. Double bans (banning something from both sides) are a lot harder balance as well because the possibilities to consider are far greater!

3) Successful bans should be bans of builds (or skills) which shut down all other builds of another class. For example, if Barbarian has absolutely no counters to a Witch Doctor's Jade Harvester Soul Harvest, leading to a one-shot every time, then that build is too strong. Fun, and fair, PVP builds should never be omnipotent panaceas which win against all other builds all of the time.
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