Diablo® III

Elite Affixe - BUG or INTENDED

EDIT - NEW TESTS !
VERSION 2.2.0 - May 12th 2015
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12673259125?page=8#154


Dear Monk Community !

First of all let me tell you that english is not my mother tongue, so sorry about mistakes.
I hope it´s still understandable, and you can keep the typos and grammar faults.^^

I posted this in the german forum first, but as most of the devs are here in the english forum, I hope I can reach out to them way better here. I didn´t search the forums about aritcles like that, so should somebody like "Davlok", "Druin", or somebody else already mention the type of things coming in this thread, then I am sorry, I don´t want to "steal the show" of anybody else.

PREAMBLE

Since the arrival of D3, I am playing Monk as my main char, not only reading and writing in the german forum, but lurking in the english one, too. The idea for that thread came some days ago, when I searched and found a list where elite affix are classified into melee and range. The list I am talking about was made and brought together from "KirusAlufras" here in the english forum. Thanks to him and all the others who brought these informations together - here is a link.....

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11040454264?page=1#2

I had some free time to play last month since ROS is out, and after getting and playing a lot with Aughild, Blackthorne, the Act 1 Ring and our Mantra of Conviction (Intimidation) it seemed to me that there is something wrong in the calculations. Especialy getting realy hard hits and damage on high T/Q from molton, fire chains and frozen pulse felt wrong.

Because of that, I took my time during the last two days and tested ALL elite affixes. I hope that my tests not only are interesting for the monk community, but maybe can bring a dev out of the dark, to answer some questions about these (IMHO) "buggy" affixes.

TEST "RULES"

I have done all the testing on NORMAL, with elite packs I found in the festering woods. I cleard the area around the packs completely and killed parts of the packs, too. The only one living was normaly the yellow mob from packs, and I used him to determine my data - on fire chains I used two blue ones - seems legit ;-) Whenever it was necessary I made videos of the runs to see the damage numbers better.

The first step was to get "original" damage numbers from the mob affix. That said I played all the runs with exactly the same gear and had 1018 resistence and 8078 armor. No sets, no damage reduce what so ever, no mantra (intimidation).

The second step was to put on mantra of conviction with intimidation and let me hit again. The text says: Passive: Enemies affected by Mantra of Conviction deal 15% less damage. So all I had to do was come close to the enemy and for insurance I even activated the mantra when I was close, so that the enemy is affected, off course. Needless to say - same resistence numbers and same armor.

The third step was to put on two pieces of aughilds and a blackthorne chest with melee reduction on it and NO MANTRA again. In that scenario I had 7% against range damage and 13,51% agains melee damage - nothing else. It changed my clothing a little bit and I used my paragon points to get the same (+/-) resistance and armor like before.

The fourth step was to use the Act 1 Setring with my two pieces of Aughild and Blackthorne. So when I was hit from the affixe this time, I had 7% each from ranged and melee reduction, but more importantly had 23,5 % reduce from elite damage. As I had claryfied in step number three if melee or ranged reduction will work, it was easy to test the elite reduction with 23,5 now.

Last but not least I put the mantra on with that "step four equip" too, only to see the maximum reduce and if its calculated the right way. And to take the tension away, if all the things mentioned above were working correct, then the addition and calculation of the mantra worked perfect, too. :-)

CONCLUSION:

Before I will post the results down in the next post, I have to admit that some of the new affixes were realy hard to get correct numbers of. There are one or two that hit you with extremely different numbers, like wormhole where the numbers in "step one" are from 3,7k up to 6,5k. So I decided to go with 20 try´s on these affixes, summ them up and calculate the average. I know that´s not perfect but that was the only way to get data from these "problem affixes". In case of that you will understand why 7% range reduce is not enough reduction in these cases, to come to a 100% safe conclusion.

After spending the last two days working on the test, looking at the videos, calculating etc., etc., I have enough for the moment and I hope thats understandable. But if there are any questions, encouragement, feedback, or if you got other numbers on your own tests, please let me know. Let´s talk about it, let us discuss it and maybe try it one more time. In the end, at least in my opinion, the goal of that thread should be to get all the affixes right. Let Blizzard see the problems and the wrong calculation and programming they have behind these affixes.

Personaly it would be interesting for me (and maybe you), if Blizzard wants the numbers like they are at the moment. Do they want affixes where melee reduce helps, some others where ranged reduce helps, but most of them where nothing of it helps ? Do they really want to have them that different ? I hope we all will get a feedback from a dev, because IMHO melee/range should work for all of them (classify them correct) or for none of them.

The most important thing for me personaly is the problem with our mantra. That has to be a "MAJOR BUG", when the mantra does not work on FIVE affixes, but on all the rest. Deal 15 % less damage, means 15 % less damage dealt by all of our enemies - sorry, but thats not the case at the moment.

Last but not least - FROZEN PULSE ? :D:D:D
Did they forget to work that out completely ?
Was it maybe introduced only a day before ROS came out ?

Ok, guys, thats it - at least for now. I know it is more like a "novel" then a simple post, but I wanted to clarify all the things before I give you the results. I hope the results will not only help us players to understand the mechanics and the damage we take better, but also helps Blizzard and there workers to maybe change some of these things (BUG´s) and make it right.

I wish you all good luck with your loot and hope I get some feedback (good or bad),
Nagash

EDIT - NEW TESTS !
VERSION 2.2.0 - May 12th 2015
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12673259125?page=8#154
Edited by Nagash#2485 on 5/12/2015 10:13 AM PDT
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I hope it´s ok to use the list I found from "KirusAlufras",
because its easier for me, to only add my results.

I ADDED MY RESULTS "BIG" AND "CURSIVE"


\\/\ Cold Affix
==============================================================
Frozen = Freezing Orb (!)
- melee damage
- tics within 15 yards
- summon 6 orbs per cast (per mob)
- each orb lasts 4 sec before exploding
- explosion freezes affected targets for 2 sec each (stack up)
{><} - the end explosion can be "dodged"
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED DON´T WORK ON TIC´s
- RANGED REDUCE WORKS ON EXPLOSION


Frozen Pulse = Chilling Orb (!)
- melee damage
- tics within 15 yards
- summon 1 orb per cast
- homing sentry
- orb triggers after 1.5 sec then searches targets for another 1.5 sec
- each orb lasts 10 sec after triggered (start dealing damage)
- affected targets are slowed by 60% (movement)
- ELITE REDUCE DOESN´T WORK
- MANTRA REDUCE DOESN´T WORK - BUG
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON´T WORK
- AT ALL NOTHING WORKS


\\/\ Fire Affix
==============================================================
Desecrator = Hellfire (!)
- melee damage
- tics within 6 yards
- damage starts after remaining in the fire for 1 sec
- damage doubles per tick (0.5 per sec)
- damage continues 1 sec after leaving the fire (dot)
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED DON´T WORK


Molten = Molten Trail
- melee damage
- tics (5 yards) in front and around the mob
- leave behind a burning trail for 5 sec (dot 3 yards)
- leave behind an explosive blast upon death (18 yards)
{><} - the end explosion can be "dodged"
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS (tic´s tested)
- MANTRA REDUCE DOESN´T WORK - BUG (tic´s tested)
- MELEE / RANGED DON´T WORK


Molten = Explosion
- NO REDUCE WORKS, NOTHING !

Mortar = Fire Bombs
- ranged damage (missile/projectile)
- impact damage within 6 yards
- throw out 3 fire bombs per mob
|><| this attack can be "dodged"
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- RANGED REDUCE WORKS


Fire Chains (!)
- ranged damage (missile/projectile)
- chain damages tics 10x per sec
- chain linked between 2 mobs (activates when 2 mobs are nearby)
|><| this attack can be "dodged"
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE DOESN`T WORK - BUG
- RANGED REDUCE WORKS


\\/\ Lightning Affix
==============================================================
Electrified = Shock Pulse
- ranged damage (missile/projectile)
- triggers when mob takes damage (per hit)
- send 4 pulses in 4 different directions (per hit)
|><| this attack can be "dodged"
- REALLY HARD TO TEST (due to big difference in numbers)
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE DOESN`T WORK - BUG
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK - NOT SURE


Thunderstorm = Falling Lighting
- ranged damage (missile/projectile)
- impact damage and spreads up to 12 yards
- damage on impact > spread, about 2x
- damage can't be avoid
- each cast triggers 5 falling lightning in a targeted area
- REALLY HARD TO TEST (due to big difference in numbers)
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK - NOT SURE


Orbiter = Lightning Sentry
- melee damage
- tics (30x per sec)*!*
- summon 1 larger central sentry and 5-9 smaller orbiting sentries
- central sentry = 5 yards dot
- orbiting sentry = 3 yards dot
- sentries last up to 15 sec or until caster re-cast
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK


\\/\ Poison Affix
==============================================================
Plagued = Plagued Pools
- melee damage
- tics within 10 yards (stack up)
- damage continues 1 sec after leaving the pool (dot)
- pool disappears when the caster dies
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK


Poison Enchanted = Poison Slimes (!)
- melee damage
- tics (3 yards)
- summon 4 slimes that move in 4 different directions (16 slimes in total)
- summoning takes 2 sec to trigger
- slimes move for 3 sec leaving behind a poisonous trail for 6 sec
- slimes explode after moving for 3 sec
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK


\\/\ Arcane Affix
==============================================================
Arcane Enchanted = Arcane Sentry (!)
- melee damage
- tics 25 yards (linear)
- summon 1 sentry per cast
- summoning takes 2 sec to trigger
- sentry rotates for 10 sec (full rotation) before disappearing
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE DOESN`T WORK - BUG
- MELEE REDUCE WORKS


Jailer = Immobilized
- ranged damage (missile/projectile)
- cage duration is 2 sec
- damage applies when the cage is formed
- damage can't be avoid
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- RANGED REDUCE WORKS


Wormhole = Teleported
- melee damage
- forms two 6 yards circle on the ground
- players insider the circle are transferred to the other one when the circles disappear
- this process takes 1 sec to complete
- damage applies after being teleported
- damage can't be avoid
- EXTREMELY HARD TO TEST (due to damage differences)
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE REDUCE WORKS


\\/\ Physical Affix
==============================================================
Reflect = Reactive Armor
- melee damage
- triggers when mob takes damage (per hit)
- dodgeable
- aura last up to 15 sec
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE / RANGED REDUCE DON`T WORK


Vortex = Vacuumed
- melee damage
- damage applies when the vortex is formed (animation above player)
- damage can't be avoid
- ELITE REDUCE WORKS
- MANTRA REDUCE WORKS
- MELEE REDUCE WORKS
Edited by Nagash#2485 on 6/3/2014 3:01 AM PDT
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Since I read most of the affixes are melee and String of Ears actually helps. Turns out melee reduction doesn't work, this is really something and worth looking into it.
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Thats a lot of effort in testing and writing. I just hope (although i doubt it) that it gets noticed by the right people despite being posted in the monk forums.
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05/09/2014 07:26 PMPosted by Nair
Since I read most of the affixes are melee and String of Ears actually helps. Turns out melee reduction doesn't work, this is really something and worth looking into it.


Like said before I "double tested" all, so my results should be right. I tested the melee reduction with only 13,51 %, coming from Aughilds set and 7% I have on a chest. But today my wife told me she has a "string of ears" on her mage. That said, I will take my time sunday evening and will try it with the "string" (27 %) again, but I doubt it will bring other results.

I think it should be important for all of us to know how these reductions work at the moment, and more important the dev´s should tell us how it´s designed to work.

As example, the "elite reduce" looks good, because it works on all affixes (not frozen puls). There is something wrong with melee and range, because it works on some, but on most don´t. And the biggest problem is our mantra, because it has to work on all, but doesn´t work on arkan, electrified, fire chains, moltan and off course - frozen pulse.



05/10/2014 03:01 AMPosted by Troglodyte
Thats a lot of effort in testing and writing. I just hope (although i doubt it) that it gets noticed by the right people despite being posted in the monk forums.


Thanks "Troglodyte", and yes it was some work.^^

I thougt the monk forums (german and english) are the right place for it, because one of the big problems is the mantra not working on 5 affixes. And I really hope that some of the GREEN MONKS here, will jump in the thread and help me (us) get some feedback from the BLUE´S.
Edited by Nagash#2485 on 5/27/2014 1:59 AM PDT
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so much text, what i summery of bugs?
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05/10/2014 04:01 AMPosted by Banned
so much text, what i summery of bugs?


It´s hard to write a summery of bugs, if you don´t now what´s planed from Blizzard.
We don´t know if they want melee and range reduce working on elite affixes, and because of that it´s hard for me to name these missing reduces a bug, you know !?

But let us for the moment assume, that each affix should work with the reduce like they where classified from "KirusAlufras" and some others, then you can find all the bugs in the second post where the affixes are written down from me. To help you, here is a "short" list ! :-)

PLAGUED
Melee and range reduce have no effect

DESECRATOR
Melee and range reduce have no effect

MOLTEN
Mantra reduce has no effect !
Melee and range reduce have no effect

ARCAN
Mantra reduce has no effect !

ORBITER
Melee and range reduce have no effect

REFLECT DAMAGE
Melee and range reduce have no effect

FROZEN
Melee and range reduce have no effect on tic´s, but works on explosion

POISON ENCHANTED
Melee and range reduce have no effect

THUNDERSTORM
Hard to test, because of damage range, but average says,
Melee and range reduce have no effect

ELECTRIFIED
Hard to test, because of damage range, but average says,
Melee and range reduce have no effect, and
Mantra reduce has no effect !

FIRE CHAINS
Mantra reduce has no effect !

FROZEN PULS
Nothing works !
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Wow, thanks for this effort. Have you considered posting this in the general forums or on reddit so that it can get a bigger audience and Blizzard may notice?

I feel kind of cheated going for melee reduction on my gear thinking that it would help against most dangerous elite affixes. That the intimidation rune is completely bugged is nothing new, it's actually surprising to see that it does work on at least some elemental attacks. :)
Glad to see that everything works on mortar and jailer so that wizards can feel save lol :P
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GREAT INFO!

Need more like this. TY
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Stack elite reduction Aug, BT, chest roll, occulus ring, halcyons.

Do not use defensive mantras for defense, only to facilitate more offense.
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Nice info

One thing I have read about thunderstorm is ranged and it can be mitigated by ranged attack reduction ( tested by eye of etlich)
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<(^^<)
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05/10/2014 09:25 AMPosted by Neuron
Nice info

One thing I have read about thunderstorm is ranged and it can be mitigated by ranged attack reduction ( tested by eye of etlich)


As I said before, and I will promise to the community, too. I will do more test if there are different opinions on my results, and I will record them so we can be 100 percent sure. There are some affixes that have a really big range of damage, and because of that, they are hard to test for me (Thunderstorm is one of them), because I only had 7% percent range reduce when I tested them all, so especialy the ranged things were hard for me, sorry. On most of the affixes thats enough, because there damage range is small, but on the ones with bigger range I will need at least 15-20 percent to be sure, you know. ;-)

As soon as I come up to at least 20 percent range reduce, I will test the classified ranged affixes again, only to be sure about my results. Same for the melee affixes, which I will do again with 27 percent, instead of the 13,5 I used. ;-)
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Hi guys,

as I promised yesterday, I have done all the testing with "String of Ears" again, only to be 100 percent sure about the melee reduction effects on the affixes. The one I used had 27 percent melee reduction, so even with a big ammount of damage differences coming in, I am now able to be sure, and it all stands like it was before.

That said, melee reduction only works on 3 elite affixes...

- Arkan
- Whormhole
- Vortex


On all the other elite affixes which are classified as melee damage, melee reduction has no affect. I really hope a dev (blue) will tell us something about it, because as it stands now we are not able to say - if the three working ones have a bug, or if Blizzard wants melee reduction to work, and all the others have a bug !?

Let´s hope we will get some answers.
Edited by Nagash#2485 on 5/11/2014 9:45 AM PDT
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If melee reduction worked for monks they might be able to use offensive skills instead of all defensive ones.
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and i was wondering why frozen pulse hits so hard compared to other affixes.
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05/11/2014 10:01 AMPosted by LiveTribunal
If melee reduction worked for monks they might be able to use offensive skills instead of all defensive ones.


That´s right :-)

But I hope I am not the only person who is interested in what Blizzard has planed.
Should melee and range reduction work on elite affixes, or not ?
Yes or no, at the moment it´s not working correct - either way.

And most important - our Mantra doesn´t work like intended on FIVE affixes !
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05/11/2014 10:20 AMPosted by FuzzyLogic
and i was wondering why frozen pulse hits so hard compared to other affixes.


Now you know why, that was the goal behind my test. ;-)
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Could be wrong, but I thought Desecrate is a Physical Affix.

Also, thanks for doing this.
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05/11/2014 05:43 PMPosted by Bad
Could be wrong, but I thought Desecrate is a Physical Affix.

Also, thanks for doing this.


Not sure if you read my complete "novel" :-(

My tests were "only" about the different reduce possibilities. The things written BIG and CURSIV are the results of my tests. The rest of the list was made (arranged) from "KirusAlufras" and others who helped classify all the affixes, and it was done in the ROS-BETA. I am not sure if all of this was confirmed from blizzard, but I thought it´s still correct.
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