Diablo® III

BiS 2H Crossbow

Two handed crossbows can attain at most about 2670 dps with 10% damage and 1.10 attacks per second.

Here is the math:

Perfect minimum base damage: 779
Perfect maximum base damage: 945

Perfect minimum elemental or black damage: 1199
Perfect maximum elemental or black damage: 1490

Perfect minimum damage = 779 + 1199 = 1978
Perfect maximum damage = 945 + 1490 = 2435

Perfect DPS = (1978 + 2435)/2 * 1.10 = 2427.15

Now with the 10%, assuming the elemental damage is black to take full advantage of the enhanced damage, the perfect DPS becomes:

Perfect DPS with black damage and 10% = 2427.15 * 1.10 = 2669.865 (about 2670)

If you have elemental and not physical damage (e.g. Fire and not black damage), then the 10% applies only to the base damage and not the elemental part.

Perfect DPS with non-black damage and 10% = 2522.19

Once the new patch arrives, this issue of elemental versus black damage will be fixed.
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05/01/2014 10:33 PMPosted by SAlphas
Edit: figured it out

http://imgur.com/qEsnTye

After the fix:

2715.9
Damage Per Second
1.10 Attacks per Second
2218-2720 Damage
+1186-1466 Fire Damage
+9% Damage
+699 Dexterity
Empty Socket


As a simple calculation your new weapon will not have 2700+ damage. The change will only affect the fire damage present on the weapon, effectively boosting it by about 131.3 DPS. Your new weapon will have about 2623.4 DPS.

Your average fire damage = (1186+1466)/2 = 1326
The 9% applied to your fire damage = 1326*0.09 = 119.34
Factor in the 1.10 attacks per second = 119.34*1.10 = 131.274

This is the DPS difference between the elemental damage and black damage formulas.
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05/02/2014 01:09 PMPosted by Zamindar
only going to post here because I have pretty much the same gear/build/playstyle as some of the other posters.

I would love to find an upgrade to Manticore.. it was the first legendary weapon I found since expansion and its been the best... I prefer it over a 2740 slayer.

Most people don't like the slow attack speed of 2 hand weapons for hatred regen, however when we are killing everything before we run out of hatred that's never a problem.


this would have ground if there wasn't a thing as stutter stepping.
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05/02/2014 01:32 PMPosted by Iria
Two handed crossbows can attain at most about 2670 dps with 10% damage and 1.10 attacks per second.

Here is the math:

Perfect minimum base damage: 779
Perfect maximum base damage: 945

Perfect minimum elemental or black damage: 1199
Perfect maximum elemental or black damage: 1490

Perfect minimum damage = 779 + 1199 = 1978
Perfect maximum damage = 945 + 1490 = 2435

Perfect DPS = (1978 + 2435)/2 * 1.10 = 2427.15

Now with the 10%, assuming the elemental damage is black to take full advantage of the enhanced damage, the perfect DPS becomes:

Perfect DPS with black damage and 10% = 2427.15 * 1.10 = 2669.865 (about 2670)

If you have elemental and not physical damage (e.g. Fire and not black damage), then the 10% applies only to the base damage and not the elemental part.

Perfect DPS with non-black damage and 10% = 2522.19

Once the new patch arrives, this issue of elemental versus black damage will be fixed.


Hey Iria, thanks for these calculations!

How much of a difference would a perfect Manticore be with 35% CHD compared to a 10% damage 2H crossbow? I am currently trying to re-roll my 35% Manticore for a perfect max damage roll. But if the difference from a 10% damage 2H crossbow is much higher, I might start looking for something new and not waste all my souls and gold on re-rolling the Manti.

thx!
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Its a matter of your crit chance and crit dmg how big the difference is. 10% more dmg on your weapon is 10% more dmg overall as your weapon is your very base dmg everything is multiplied on.

If you want to calculate how powerful CD for you is I'll give an example.

Assuming 50% CC and 400% CD.
Now you get your 35% CD on top of that.
CD is defined as bons dmg on crit, so a crit deals 500% of its normal dmg with 400% crit dmg.

The formula for calculating the % dmg worth of it is:

(CDtoadd/(CDcurrent+100))*CC/100

In this example this looks like

(35/500)*0,5 = 0,035

And therefore a 3,5% dmg gain, vs a 10% gain of the dmg stat, so rerolling it to %dmg is roughly a gain of 6% over the CD for 50% crit and 400% crit dmg.

Generally CC increases its value and CD decreases its percentual value.

As I'm a bit tired, hit me if I'm talking nonsense.
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Do you have more than 250% critical hit damage including paragon, emerald, and other modifiers on gear? If so, then the 10% enhanced damage trumps the 35% critical hit damage roll in all situations!

Math:

Assume you have 250% critical hit damage, then a 35% critical hit damage roll will put you at 285%. The improvement ratio is (285+100)/(250+100) = 1.1 or a 10% relative difference. That means your critical hits will hit 10% harder than before the 35% bonus was applied; however this is ONLY for critical hits! Non-critical hits do not see that bonus at all. A simple 10% enhanced damage roll boosts all your damage by 10%, regardless of critical or not, but this is only true for a black damage weapon; however, in the near future, this will apply to ALL elemental types.

Since 250% critical hit damage is really easy to obtain (50% base, 50% paragon, 130% emerald already puts you at 230%), I see no reason to ever use a critical hit damage roll over an enhanced damage roll. If you have more than 250% critical hit damage, the relative benefit of +35% critical hit damage is less than 10% (and again only applied to critical hits).

So how much critical hit damage should Blizzard buff weapons with that roll to make them comparable to 10% damage?

Assume an average player has 400% critical hit damage and 50% critical hit chance, now assume X is the amount of critical hit damage on the weapon to add to the 400% to equal a 10% boost.

A 10% boost = 1.1 relative ratio = (1+0.50*(4.00+X))/(1+0.50*4.00).

Solving for X, we get X = 60% critical hit damage. So in a typical situation where players are running with moderate critical hit chance (40-60%) and damage (350-450%), the fact that critical hit damage rolls only to 35% is weak when comparing to a raw 10% damage boost.
Edited by Iria#1342 on 5/2/2014 2:32 PM PDT
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T

Once the new patch arrives, this issue of elemental versus black damage will be fixed.


Is this confirmed for this patch and that it is retrospective as said somewhere in the thread?
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Thanks users: great info in here. So, I just rerolled 31% CD into 10% damage and my DPS dropped. Is that because my new Manti has poison damage and it doesn't scale like black damage?

EDIT: My DPS on the Manti went up but the difference in the damage stat comparison with my Helltrapper increased from 5 to 6.6% less??? So confusing.
Edited by Achilles5#1771 on 5/2/2014 3:54 PM PDT
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@Achilles5

The poison dmg is the reason. only the physical base dmg (948 dps for a leg 2h xbow) is increased by 10% not the poison dmg roll. So you only get 94,8 dps increase instead of something along the lines of 230-250.
So you lose about 60% of the % dmgs intentional power and therefore is a bit weaker than the cd.
With the fix you should see a good increase over the crit dmg though.

Otherwise you could get 7% ias for the time being, which is until the bugfix is live stronger and still outperfroms the CD.
Edited by Raikh#2852 on 5/2/2014 4:01 PM PDT
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@ Iria and Raikh

Thx again guys! great info!
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05/02/2014 04:00 PMPosted by Raikh
@Achilles5

The poison dmg is the reason. only the physical base dmg (948 dps for a leg 2h xbow) is increased by 10% not the poison dmg roll. So you only get 94,8 dps increase instead of something along the lines of 230-250.
So you lose about 60% of the % dmgs intentional power and therefore is a bit weaker than the cd.
With the fix you should see a good increase over the crit dmg though.

Otherwise you could get 7% ias for the time being, which is until the bugfix is live stronger and still outperfroms the CD.


Thanks for that clarification. I get it now, and I guess I'll wait for the fix then. Can't wait to compare how a decent xbow fares, as I've rolled w/my Helltrapper since forever.
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I think I got lucky and got a pretty good Buriza that rolled socket so I'm waiting for patch for me to add in the 10%dmg. I hope its retroactive.
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BiS for LfB (imho!)
T1-T3/4 : good roll Manticore or Demon Machine (it's a little Shard Of Hate in Xbow format)
T4-T6 : Hellrack (damage potential + smexiest solo and group proc)

then add the theorycraft from above posters and voila
Edited by idle#2182 on 5/3/2014 11:29 PM PDT
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Oops nvm. Remembered wrong
Edited by Ensui#1789 on 5/4/2014 3:55 PM PDT
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my current chanon bolter is pretty !@#$, 400dps lesser than my 1h xbows but the utility it provides is so amazing. the 13 second internal cooldown is for EACH MONSTER, NOT ON YOUR XBOW.

100% certain Bis is chanon bolter not manticore or buriza
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I am a CA fire build. And I am having good results with the Demon Hunter. Mine got Fire damage and a 64% chance to shoot a flaming fire ball. I find this works better with my build than the Nat's Slayer, or several other 1 and 2 hand xbows I have found. Anyone have any thoughts?

Currently I have +89% dmg to fire skills. I can easily kill anything in a 4 person T1 game, but I have to avoid enemy ground effects as I am quite squishy and can't really tolerate any elemental damage.
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I currently have a 2 pierce buriza, good dmg chanon bolter and a hellrack. If i can slot in spike trap some how, i feel the chanon would make for an amazing CA bow.
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guess i got sorta lucky with my hellrack then, considering its just my second xbow drop in his 24hr l70 lifespan.

shame the %damage was just 7% though. still gotta get the blackdmg roll higher though ( just 2 rerolls as of now).
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05/01/2014 02:53 PMPosted by Iria
The best secondary is probably the Buriza's pierce effect. However, for raw damage, any crossbow can be the best with 750 dexterity, socket, 10% weapon damage, and 1199-1490 damage. I have one that is close to that but could have a little more dexterity.


when are they to fix elemental on weapons?
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05/05/2014 11:40 AMPosted by hmk21
when are they to fix elemental on weapons?


I believe it is slated for 2.0.5, but there is still no word on exactly when that will arrive. I guess the best answer is:

Soon™
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