Diablo® III

0dog

04/30/2014 08:47 AMPosted by smokeypoo
300+ paragon is intended to mean a seasoned player of d3, who wouldve been playing long enough to remember what that build was.


^ this pretty much.

0dog was never a very "popular" build due to cost. at one point it was the most expensive build in D3 of any class. most people can't afford a proper 0dog build so they went with a 4 or 5 piece set and thought the build mediocre (because they was never able to use the proper 3 piece set) a properly built 0dog was among the most powerful solo builds and by far the strongest group builds in D3 vanilla. together with implosion palm monks and shocknadoshards wiz they made up the holy trinity of D3 vanilla. while 0dog was never very popular, most of the old timers knew and respected the power 0dog had. 0dog was part of the WD lexicon up until at least 6 months ago, then the build just fell off the grid and never to be heard from again (till recently when people are trying to make T6 farm status)

0dog is ONLY possible with legacy gear. no amount of cooldown reduction in post loot 2.0 will ever get you to 0dog. this is why I often refer to the build as an extincted build rather then 0dog. it's not possible to achieve with level 70 gear/skill. ONLY with legacy 0dog gear. currently i'm using a 4 piece set (4th piece being a 7 yard pickup which i feel is necessary to offer the proper support to the group) but eventually i may switch the 4th piece out when i find a 5 yard razor belt.
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04/30/2014 04:53 AMPosted by Fermcangetit
To 2.0+ zero doggers who know:

How much legacy gear is necessary? I obviously know about the rings/mojo/helm, but I'm curious how much of it I can avoid wearing with CDR.

Example: If I somehow many to get to get to 75% CDR, will legacy gear be unnecessary with the 25% from Tribal Rites? Or, alternatively, if I get to 60%, with the 25% from Tribal Rites do I only need one 7 sec dog reduction item?


it is possible to avoid the helm requirement if you go ring ring neck mojo. this will allow for a MoJ/tasker combo. unfortunately neck was the rarest piece to find back in vanilla and with the extinction behind us, i doubt you'd see more then 3 of these necks floating around.

and to answer your question, it's impossible to achieve 0dog w/o at least the 3 piece legacy 0dog gear. the diminishing returns math behind cooldown reduction guarantee that is impossible w/o legacy gear.
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04/30/2014 12:18 PMPosted by Psyclum
04/30/2014 04:53 AMPosted by Fermcangetit
To 2.0+ zero doggers who know:

How much legacy gear is necessary? I obviously know about the rings/mojo/helm, but I'm curious how much of it I can avoid wearing with CDR.

Example: If I somehow many to get to get to 75% CDR, will legacy gear be unnecessary with the 25% from Tribal Rites? Or, alternatively, if I get to 60%, with the 25% from Tribal Rites do I only need one 7 sec dog reduction item?


it is possible to avoid the helm requirement if you go ring ring neck mojo. this will allow for a MoJ/tasker combo. unfortunately neck was the rarest piece to find back in vanilla and with the extinction behind us, i doubt you'd see more then 3 of these necks floating around.

and to answer your question, it's impossible to achieve 0dog w/o at least the 3 piece legacy 0dog gear. the diminishing returns math behind cooldown reduction guarantee that is impossible w/o legacy gear.


Hey Psy, do you find that the ammy would be more worth too have in 2.0 over the helm? Now that ammys can go SUPER high in dps and they can also roll + Physical if you get your RNG on your side.

Thoughts?
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04/30/2014 12:25 PMPosted by AstrayedOne


Hey Psy, do you find that the ammy would be more worth too have in 2.0 over the helm? Now that ammys can go SUPER high in dps and they can also roll + Physical if you get your RNG on your side.

Thoughts?


in all honesty i don't really know.

if for some miracle you are able to get your hands on a mara that can make a 3 piece set work, then you can try mara + SoJ + SoJ(physical) + homunculus + MoJ + tasker... you should still be doing respectable garg dps output especially considering homunculus also reduce garg cooldown. you still have the boost from shoulder and chest for garg or fetish so i think it's a really strong dps boost to the current neutered dps output of sacrifice. and considering health globe heals your pets... you are just a one man synergy army all on your own

obviously that's ALOT of if's on some of the most expensive slots (stats wise) so it's going to be an extremely hard build to make even if you go to d2jsp and get really lucky on drops... but it would definitely be an interesting build to watch considering everyone else wants what you've got... think about it, globes, pets, and gruesome feast with MoJ and tasker on top of the fact that you can summon that garg almost full time? :D
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If you have 20sec homunculus, 7sec sg and 7sec soj you can use tasker and MoJ.
+ garg and fetish
It's my future build :)

If someone from eu server has perfect soj i can trade for my soj and one more item from:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mld-2674/hero/31015081
Edited by mld#2674 on 5/1/2014 7:21 AM PDT
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05/01/2014 07:06 AMPosted by mld
If you have 20sec homunculus, 7sec sg and 7sec soj you can use tasker and MoJ.
+ garg and fetish
It's my future build :)

If someone from eu server has perfect soj i can trade for my soj and one more item from:
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/mld-2674/hero/31015081


yah, but the new SoJ is just such a strong item that it's hard to give up... i suppose going with a SG would open up the option for an immunity neck, but that would be the only reason to give up the new SoJ for a legacy SG.
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I actually found 2 of them in one week. They are still out there!

The rest of 0 doggers know this, that weapon ISNT the 0 dog holy grail. If anything it doesnt work 100% of the time and it does not stun them 100% of the time. Why? The AoE isnt big enough. Take it from me who tried this even with Lots of AoE gear AND 50 para points into AoE

Is it worth it to use? Oh !@#$ yeah. But it is more worth then other weapons that could be better? Negative.

<3


IDK if this has been mentioned, but stacking AOE % damage doesn't increase your AOE range.

It only increases the damage done to nearby monsters when your 20% chance to proc AOE damage actually procs.
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04/30/2014 12:25 PMPosted by AstrayedOne

Hey Psy, do you find that the ammy would be more worth too have in 2.0 over the helm? Now that ammys can go SUPER high in dps and they can also roll + Physical if you get your RNG on your side.

Thoughts?


ok did alittle thinking and unfortunately there is really only one way to do the build. you will need a mara, soj, homunculus 3 piece set to get it to work. here's why. you need helm for MoJ, glove for tasker, and bp, pants, boots, and 2nd ring for zuni. so there is really no room to play with in terms of what you can have on what slot if you want to do the hybrid 0dog/pet build.
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Kind of wish I kept my Mara's (6s), SoJ(8s), and homu(20s dogs/17s gary) just to run this build once. But I gave it up.

Here's the basic gear in case anyone wanted to see:
http://d3up.com/b/906444/mcp-zero-dogs

I sold it all oh GAH after loot 2.0
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@MCP

If you're losing sleep over it, I have a -36 0dog Zuni mask/SOJ/Homu that I'll trade you for your MoJ.

Oh wait, never mind...stupid BOA.
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i am using sacrifice with my new offhand and its awesome
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05/01/2014 07:48 PMPosted by Spectre
i am using sacrifice with my new offhand and its awesome


Ya there is potential in a hybrid dog build that doesn't need legacy gear. It won't be true 0dog, but I think it'll be fun to see how far it can be pushed with just RoS equipment.
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To be clear. It is not possible if you are thinking you can use cooldown reduction gear to ROS 0 dogs build. Some people think this.

Cooldowns are multiplicative. so the first 10% item you wear drops it to 90%, the next 10% drops it to 81%, the next 10% drops it to ~72%, so on and so forth. That means if you are wearing 100% reduction you are getting like 50% net reduction for cooldowns off your spells.

You cannot combined that with any of the cooldown specific legacy reduction pieces either, because the % reduction takes place AFTER the straight second reductions, so you can never get close.

The hybrid 0 dog build they want you to run now is with the homu off hand that summons a dog every 4 seconds, circle of life and summon zombie dogs. The idea being that with some combination of these 3 engines you have a good number of doggies to pop off frequently, while mixing in other spells. That is a ROS summon build. I would do it with pride or for the master, but next of kin also works.

I have done it, I have the Edge globe belt and the stun dagger and the offhand and you stack plus physical gear and cooldown reduction gear. It is fun, but can't do high T levels for the same reason you can't do cloud of bats at high T levels, you get mangled against elites in tight and in tight is the only way to do it.

Even if you go tribal rights, which drops the cooldown to 33.75 (0 doggers need 34 seconds of straight drop off in legacy gear), and you have a say 42.5% gross cooldown reduction gear (considered that best average point where the gear is still efficient), which is around 35-36% net reduction. that takes you to about 22 seconds for the straight spell. You can chain them together as well with next of kin (35% chance when they pop to create another dog).

That is the core of a ROS summoning dogs/physical build.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#fVYdiU!ZThY!acZcbY

There are a bunch of variations though depending on preference.
Edited by Blight#1282 on 5/2/2014 10:46 AM PDT
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05/02/2014 10:42 AMPosted by Blight
To be clear. It is not possible if you are thinking you can use cooldown reduction gear to ROS 0 dogs build. Some people think this.

Cooldowns are multiplicative. so the first 10% item you wear drops it to 90%, the next 10% drops it to 81%, the next 10% drops it to ~72%, so on and so forth. That means if you are wearing 100% reduction you are getting like 50% net reduction for cooldowns off your spells.


Ya in RoS you'll never get back to the 0 cool down summon/sac/summon/sac play. I think the key is going to be finding the best mix to optimize chaining sacs by getting replacement dogs off your skills and possibly homunculous as well as finding the cooldown reduction sweet spot. The goal being to sustain until summon is back up again. Hopefully sacrifice gets a little bit of a buff going forward, but we'll see.
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Raki has written on a guide on globe doggers meant to use sacrifice as a way to generate health globes.

I tried the pile on variant on globe dogger in party play and it was just fine. My DPS was kind of low and I needed rain dance for elites/bosses on higher torments.
I had zero cooldown reduction and was relying on holding down sacrifice when dogs started popping up from circle of life/next of kin.

And if I ever get zuni set...

I am thinking this for full pet build with homunculus:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#PTQYVU!ZTRY!bbbZZa

Generate globes for damage and HP for pets.
Either focus on fire or physical for damage %. FA changes to tiki torches with fire of course.

In party play with other pet builds, you can simply remove FA for anything else, e.g. mass confusion paranoia or soul harvest or confuse toads. You could either keep MoJ/T&T on or even just remove garg as well if you swap helms/gloves.

Lots of variations depending on your gear.
Edited by MCP#1477 on 5/2/2014 1:30 PM PDT
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04/27/2014 09:33 PMPosted by AstrayedOne
0 dog is VERY rare


http://imgur.com/SepSo6Q

Also they mentioned in the upcoming balancing they will look into sacrifice and try to make it more viable as now it is the least used skill among witch doctors.
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05/02/2014 10:42 AMPosted by Blight


The hybrid 0 dog build they want you to run now is with the homu off hand that summons a dog every 4 seconds, circle of life and summon zombie dogs. The idea being that with some combination of these 3 engines you have a good number of doggies to pop off frequently, while mixing in other spells. That is a ROS summon build. I would do it with pride or for the master, but next of kin also works.

[/quote]

yah unfortunately, the amount of globes produced with the "loot 2.0 version" of the 0dog can barely sustain gruesome feast. nowhere near enough to feed power hungry wizzys or blood vengeance DH's. you would need a true 0dog for that to happen.

the "hybrid set" i mentioned above is based on a true 0dog build (legacy mara, legacy SoJ, and legacy homunculus) with hybridized pet build which includes.(zuni4 + MoJ + tasker) that's why the item requirements are so specific because that is the only way for that hybrid to work if you are basing the hybrid build on true 0dog.

as to how many people is CAPABLE of making that build work today? I doubt the number exceeds single digit on the US server considering 0dog mara was an extremely RARE and expensive item in the 1st place back in vanilla. so the number to have survived till now has got to be less. it's something I'd be interested to see happen, but like i said, it's likely that less then 3 people on the US server would have the gear to make that build.
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Anybody knows something about sacrifice breakpoints in ros?
I know more AS is better for this build.
I read, that in ros something was change with sacrifice animation.
In vanilla there was AS 2.0 or more enough to play comfortable.
Edited by mld#2674 on 5/9/2014 5:33 AM PDT
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there is no break point per se anymore since the sacrifice is no longer a dmg dealer. (it does so little dmg that it doesn't matter) so right now, it's as much speed as you can stack and make globes to feed the other dmg dealers :D

with the right group, (reapers wraps, power hungry, blood vengeance) you can easily double or triple their dps output. here are some example builds if they all have reapers wraps

barb: HotA build or boulder toss build(with 300th spear)
crusader: fires of heaven build(with the fate of the fell)
wizard: meteor build or a hybrid Wand of woh build + meteor with power hungry passive
DH: cluster arrow build with blood vengence
monk: LTK or bells build
WD: pretty much any build with gruesome feast passive :D
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Fierce Loyalty You can have 1 additional Zombie Dog summoned at one time. While you have a Zombie Dog, Gargantuan, or Fetish following you and not in combat, your movement speed is increased by 30%. (Previously your pets gained 100% of your Life Regen and Thorns)


1 more dog? :O
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