Diablo® III

T6 Viable Cold Wiz, Please MOVE to WIZ SECTION

I've been using glacial spikes and SoH for a few weeks now and it does just fine.

I'm no where even close to having the cold gear I need to make it shine (because it won't drop), but it does just fine.
Reply Quote
I was going to try this out whenever a SoH drops. Or a WoW. Just waiting on those.
Reply Quote
I am running something very similar, basically the non attack speed version of what you're doing. The primary differences are that I have RoF/Snow Blast as a second option (since it's instant hit and works well on clustered groups with Absolute Zero) and that I'm running with MW/Electrify to extend the "reach" of my skills. My passives are mostly offensive right now for T2. For higher torment I would probably switch to deflection like you have. I still need a few pieces of gear (BT pants, Auglid chest) and/or a better rolled RoRG to get where I want to be overall, but so far so good.
Reply Quote
Don't need SOH to run Cold MM/Mirrorball
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 06:41 AMPosted by vishnu
I tried something like this out a while ago as well. I love the amount of freezing you get off triple glacial spike, but I kill faster with eb/conflag w/ woh. I'm definitely on board with the crowd control approach to T6, though.

I went with eb/conflag w/ woh to kill faster, and then in order to get a satisfactory level of crowd control I went with a duplicates + event horizon + bone chill approach, which is very strong against most things, but does fall down a bit against stuff which is immune to black hole (though the duplicates + bone chill still freezes a fair amount).

Just to remind myself, I switched back to a build like the one the OP is using. It is definitely viable, but I have 40% less cold damage than I do fire damage from gear, which isn't likely to change soon. Even if I had that cold damage, it is doubtful that I'd kill as fast as I do with eb/conflag. I kill faster in T6 with eb/conflag than I do in T5 with this build. I do love the freeze though.

A question for the OP: why not duplicates? The duplicates' glacial spikes freeze guys too, and then of course their frost nova and black hole are huge control as well. If you're going to focus on crowd control it seems a logical choice.


I tried mm conflag WoW. The biggest issue I had was playstyle. The MM feels sluggish and often cast from ranged when it's not intended, stopping u from going melee range to get EB dmg. I rather use flame blades.

Regarding Dupblicates, I don't need any more CCs, the CC and defense are already built in, I am more focused on increasing burst dmg. Plus teleport gives me a constantly 27% mitigation and gets me out of dire situations, duplicates don't seem to help when you are vortexed into nasty affixes.
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Ossian
Don't need SOH to run Cold MM/Mirrorball


Without SoH, I feel Mirror/Glacial doesn't put as much oomph in as an AP spender like FOrb would. Was also considering Tal's 4pc for tank/CC/MM/meteor build.
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 09:33 AMPosted by ThreeStars
I am running something very similar, basically the non attack speed version of what you're doing. The primary differences are that I have RoF/Snow Blast as a second option (since it's instant hit and works well on clustered groups with Absolute Zero) and that I'm running with MW/Electrify to extend the "reach" of my skills. My passives are mostly offensive right now for T2. For higher torment I would probably switch to deflection like you have. I still need a few pieces of gear (BT pants, Auglid chest) and/or a better rolled RoRG to get where I want to be overall, but so far so good.


I actually tried perm cast ray of frost, the biggest issue I had was mobility. I had 40% frostburn with perm chan ray of frost, but mortars and any ranged just annihilates me, my shield and healing does not regen fast enough to mitigate the dmg.

05/04/2014 09:46 AMPosted by Ossian
Don't need SOH to run Cold MM/Mirrorball


if u wanna take full advantage of this build, yes u do need SOH, the dmg output is insane. I had TF, firewalker elemental exposure combo, I was putting out bigger numbers, but overall dps was alot lower.
Reply Quote
Point is it is a credible build without the ultra-rare drop. Only really requirement is 2 missile Mirrorball.
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 11:20 AMPosted by CKbrah
I tried mm conflag WoW. The biggest issue I had was playstyle. The MM feels sluggish and often cast from ranged when it's not intended, stopping u from going melee range to get EB dmg. I rather use flame blades.

Bind a key to force move. Problem solved.

05/04/2014 11:20 AMPosted by CKbrah
Regarding Dupblicates, I don't need any more CCs, the CC and defense are already built in, I am more focused on increasing burst dmg. Plus teleport gives me a constantly 27% mitigation and gets me out of dire situations, duplicates don't seem to help when you are vortexed into nasty affixes.

Duplicates just clean up all the nasty affixes with event horizon spam before you can get vortexed into them in the first place. Fire chains is the exception to that though, but you can frost nova and walk out of fire chains almost as fast as you can teleport out, most of the time.

It is great that you feel like you've got CC and defense covered. I didn't have quite as much attack speed as you when I was trying the build, but duplicates made a huge difference between always struggling with crowd control, and just having everything locked up. I'll probably keep my eye out for cold gear with attack speed buffs and squirrel it away for another go down the road, if/when I get bored of EB/conflag. My shard of hate doesn't have attack speed on it, which is the main bummer.
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 01:57 AMPosted by CKbrah
05/04/2014 12:16 AMPosted by Infectious
Thoughts on Azurewrath over SoH? I'd have to go review the math thread, but I want to say it would be a dps increase, and you'd pick up another defensive mechanic in the passive of the weapon.


not even close, SOH is close to 25% of ur total dps. Defense is not a problem, the focus is CC and burst dmg.

[/quote]

Help me understand here please. Too keep things simple say SOH's proc did 200%, and that you had an Azurewrath with 20% cold, and all other things were comparable. MM @ 175% * 3 is 525% weapon damage.

SOH procs once per second (I think that's the max post nerf, so assume with MM and any attack speed you're at the cap).

Say you have 1.5 attacks per second (weapon plus a smidge of ias). So with SOH you have 525*1.5 + 200 = 987.5%, plus all your cold and elite and etc.

Now if you went with Azure, and got no 200% attack every second, but everything did 20% more: 525*1.5*1.2 = 945%, plus all your other cold and elite and etc. So that's a 4% difference. But factor in your ice familiar and you've probably moved into the positive with Azure, but for the sake of argument we'll call it even. Then factor in that Azure has some 20%+ chance to freeze, and you seem to come out ahead.

Now add in absolute zero. And maybe someone runs frost hydra instead of something else, both of which get the benefit of Azure and no benefit from SOH (since you're already at the proc cap).

Plus the fact that the AOE from the Glacial Spike will benefit from the Azure, and not from the SOH. Although it is true that the SOH will pierce, but it seems to me that the AOE would be more favorable.

Maybe I'm just not understanding.. But even if the SOH is 25% of your overall damage, the Azure would be 20% minimum, with the potential for a lot more depending on build and situation, and brings the 25%+ freeze.

PS: The defensive mechanism to which I refer is the freeze, which is a cc which is what you said you're going for.

PPS: Also iff you have any +MM damage, it would benefit from the Azure and not from the SOH.

PPPS: Just re-looked at SOH, and it can have up to 250% weapon damage, so that makes it a little better if you get a better roll, but I think the overall point I was trying to make still rings true. The two are very close in damage, but the focus of the build was cc/damage, and the Azure brings 20-25% more cc to the table, with at most a 5% difference in overall damage (and less than that depending on if they are in a line or in a bunch for the aoe of the MM, and if you're using another cold based spell like hydra or blackhole).

PPPS: Not sure if it's a bug, but I just put on my SOH, and with 1.7+ attacks per second I was able to get a proc on most casts (maybe 1/7 didn't proc, roughly), just standing in town casting, so it appears that there is no ICD (glacial spike doesn't have a 100% proc chance).
Edited by Infectious#1245 on 5/4/2014 11:56 PM PDT
Reply Quote
ur gears are crazy... almost perfect on everything...
i know u must've spent alot of time on ur toon.
wondering...
what's ur thought on Frostburn glove.
and what would u change ur gear if given a chance. better amulet perhaps ?
Reply Quote
05/04/2014 11:25 AMPosted by CKbrah
05/04/2014 09:33 AMPosted by ThreeStars
I am running something very similar, basically the non attack speed version of what you're doing. The primary differences are that I have RoF/Snow Blast as a second option (since it's instant hit and works well on clustered groups with Absolute Zero) and that I'm running with MW/Electrify to extend the "reach" of my skills. My passives are mostly offensive right now for T2. For higher torment I would probably switch to deflection like you have. I still need a few pieces of gear (BT pants, Auglid chest) and/or a better rolled RoRG to get where I want to be overall, but so far so good.


I actually tried perm cast ray of frost, the biggest issue I had was mobility. I had 40% frostburn with perm chan ray of frost, but mortars and any ranged just annihilates me, my shield and healing does not regen fast enough to mitigate the dmg.


After messing around with trying to extend my channeling time I actually gave up and went the other way, figuring that RoF as I use it is a situational skill. Since black hole crams monsters into a small enough area to all be affected by RoF (not to mention the bonuses to damage and cold damage), I usually open with RoF and then clean up with glacial spike. GS is also better for shotgunning elites that get close or for firing into scattered crowds.

I got my BT pants, and I have an Auglids chest that I need to enchant 3 sockets onto. Had a Unity drop in the meantime. I tried out the chest and elites just melted. It's something like 1.5m elite DPS.
Reply Quote
why three cains!? Or am I looking at the wrong profile?
Reply Quote
Well the problem with cold MM build is that dps is not even close to fire MM build, i have tested it on t6 today(with a little bit better gear then yours and with SOH ofc.) and it is viable but a lot slower then fire. CC is better but thats not enough to make it worth.
ATM the only thing in cold that would be good is 2x hydra thing with a good serpent wand, prolly perma freez and nice dps (1x hydra is around 6-7mln aoe ).
Reply Quote
I have a hardcore cold wiz, and it takes very little damage even though it has 4mil toughness less than my fire wizard because the mobs are just frozen ALL the time, that or in a blackhole. That said, it's damage output in the same gear wasn't as good, especially on bosses and things like rift guardians, I wouldn't underestimate the power of glacial spike cleave + some area damage though.
Reply Quote
I tried mm conflag WoW. The biggest issue I had was playstyle. The MM feels sluggish and often cast from ranged when it's not intended, stopping u from going melee range to get EB dmg. I rather use flame blades.
Bind a key to force move. Problem solved.


exactly, bind a key to force stand still, if u click on monster to move close to melee range for EB, u cast MM, if u force stand still, u cast MM and don't move close to monster for EB. It's very annoying, so I rather play spectral blades.

05/04/2014 11:20 AMPosted by CKbrah
Regarding Dupblicates, I don't need any more CCs, the CC and defense are already built in, I am more focused on increasing burst dmg. Plus teleport gives me a constantly 27% mitigation and gets me out of dire situations, duplicates don't seem to help when you are vortexed into nasty affixes.

Duplicates just clean up all the nasty affixes with event horizon spam before you can get vortexed into them in the first place. Fire chains is the exception to that though, but you can frost nova and walk out of fire chains almost as fast as you can teleport out, most of the time.

It is great that you feel like you've got CC and defense covered. I didn't have quite as much attack speed as you when I was trying the build, but duplicates made a huge difference between always struggling with crowd control, and just having everything locked up. I'll probably keep my eye out for cold gear with attack speed buffs and squirrel it away for another go down the road, if/when I get bored of EB/conflag. My shard of hate doesn't have attack speed on it, which is the main bummer.


Usually, vortex + nasty affix are rare, but sometimes they are too deadly and nobody can do anything about it. The problem with vortex is that it not only pulls u in, it also knocks u back in the air, resulting in recovery time, that's 2 secs of receiving enormous amount of dmg that u cannot get out of.

And you NEED absolute zero because #1, it greatly boost cold dmg, #2, It procs 2-3 SOHs, HUGE burst dmg.

<span class="truncated">...</span>

not even close, SOH is close to 25% of ur total dps. Defense is not a problem, the focus is CC and burst dmg.



Help me understand here please. Too keep things simple say SOH's proc did 200%, and that you had an Azurewrath with 20% cold, and all other things were comparable. MM @ 175% * 3 is 525% weapon damage.

SOH procs once per second (I think that's the max post nerf, so assume with MM and any attack speed you're at the cap).

Say you have 1.5 attacks per second (weapon plus a smidge of ias). So with SOH you have 525*1.5 + 200 = 987.5%, plus all your cold and elite and etc.

Now if you went with Azure, and got no 200% attack every second, but everything did 20% more: 525*1.5*1.2 = 945%, plus all your other cold and elite and etc. So that's a 4% difference. But factor in your ice familiar and you've probably moved into the positive with Azure, but for the sake of argument we'll call it even. Then factor in that Azure has some 20%+ chance to freeze, and you seem to come out ahead.

Now add in absolute zero. And maybe someone runs frost hydra instead of something else, both of which get the benefit of Azure and no benefit from SOH (since you're already at the proc cap).

Plus the fact that the AOE from the Glacial Spike will benefit from the Azure, and not from the SOH. Although it is true that the SOH will pierce, but it seems to me that the AOE would be more favorable.

Maybe I'm just not understanding.. But even if the SOH is 25% of your overall damage, the Azure would be 20% minimum, with the potential for a lot more depending on build and situation, and brings the 25%+ freeze.

PS: The defensive mechanism to which I refer is the freeze, which is a cc which is what you said you're going for.

PPS: Also iff you have any +MM damage, it would benefit from the Azure and not from the SOH.

PPPS: Just re-looked at SOH, and it can have up to 250% weapon damage, so that makes it a little better if you get a better roll, but I think the overall point I was trying to make still rings true. The two are very close in damage, but the focus of the build was cc/damage, and the Azure brings 20-25% more cc to the table, with at most a 5% difference in overall damage (and less than that depending on if they are in a line or in a bunch for the aoe of the MM, and if you're using another cold based spell like hydra or blackhole).

PPPS: Not sure if it's a bug, but I just put on my SOH, and with 1.7+ attacks per second I was able to get a proc on most casts (maybe 1/7 didn't proc, roughly), just standing in town casting, so it appears that there is no ICD (glacial spike doesn't have a 100% proc chance).


I read everything, and here is my take on it.

Azurewrath has no where near the potential that SOH does for couple reasons.
1. It cannot roll IAS and intellect at the same time. and IAS is incredibly important for this build.
2. the + cold dmg is not a direct % dmg increase. It's based on the overall cold dmg% gear that u have, for example if u have 80% cold dmg already with a base dmg of 1000, ur doing 1800 dmg, adding 20% more to cold dmg, ur doing 2000 dmg, that's (2000-1800) / 1800 = 11.11% dmg increase.
3. SOH procs is over 100% and here is why, Glacial spike procs on almost every hit, a good 70-80% of the time, u forgot to add absolute zero, which also procs it 2-3 times, and frozen nova 1-2 times. The burst u can do with SOH during a blackhole + FN lock down is absolutely insane.
4. SOH Proc pierces
5. Azurewrath's freeze effect is only 0.5 secs, and already diminishes at the same time with glacial spike freeze, FN, and icicle, it's pretty useless.

05/04/2014 11:47 PMPosted by Artss
ur gears are crazy... almost perfect on everything...
i know u must've spent alot of time on ur toon.
wondering...
what's ur thought on Frostburn glove.
and what would u change ur gear if given a chance. better amulet perhaps ?


that's a great question, it will be covered in the gear section later.

Frostburn is only worth it if u have native CD or CC on it, other wise, the dps and ias loss is not worth it.

I would change several things. An immunity ammy with cold dmg, CC, CD, anything immunity is fine. That would pretty much make me unkillable in most situations.

And most importantly, Iceclimbers, those frozen orbs hurt really bad in T6 before they even explode, even tho I can survive 1-2 explosions, the down time is what really kills me, and u have to move out of a large area. Having icelimbers, willl boost survival tremendously while at the same time not reducing any dmg.

05/05/2014 06:59 AMPosted by Magoom
Well the problem with cold MM build is that dps is not even close to fire MM build, i have tested it on t6 today(with a little bit better gear then yours and with SOH ofc.) and it is viable but a lot slower then fire. CC is better but thats not enough to make it worth.
ATM the only thing in cold that would be good is 2x hydra thing with a good serpent wand, prolly perma freez and nice dps (1x hydra is around 6-7mln aoe ).


If ur talking about boss dps, it's not even close. If ur taking about elites and white trash dmg, Frost out dps it by FAR. Sure it would have a problem with taking down a full screen of enemies, but 90% of the rifts are not like that, The burst dmg u can do with SOH + Glacial spike + Bone chill + Absotely zero is simple insane. Don't forget frost nova and BH procs like 3-5 SOHs, plus 4 from glacial spike, that's 720% - %1200 extra wpn + 960% alone from SOH during that 2 sec period.

I would say my gear is slightly better...due to having more AOE dmg, mitigation, and 30% extra MM dmg :)
Edited by CKbrah#1954 on 5/5/2014 7:59 AM PDT
Reply Quote
PPPS: Not sure if it's a bug, but I just put on my SOH, and with 1.7+ attacks per second I was able to get a proc on most casts (maybe 1/7 didn't proc, roughly), just standing in town casting, so it appears that there is no ICD (glacial spike doesn't have a 100% proc chance).


Shard of Hates ICD is your casting rate, so basically, you wont benefit from something like casting blizzard whilst spam casting glacial spike because it will be "capped". Glacial spikes coef is like .93, so it's pretty damn close to 100%. You can see a 100% proc rate for barbs with that lightning weapon throw I think.

Basically shard of hate is that extra 4th and a half missile, 7 in 100 won't fire it off, close enough for me.

(Thunderfury also has the same ICD, but its proc chance is supposably only something like 60% instead of SoH's 100%)

Edit: To the Person above, yes ice climbers are good if you can go without Illusory, you can also get cc reduction as a secondary affix on your jewellry and helm, up around the 80% mark, 70% or so just from 3 pieces, which helps TREMENDOUSLY.
Edited by Willfox#1747 on 5/5/2014 7:57 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Boss dps/ trash clearing, everything is just slower, math is math and it looks even good on paper...but when i run that builds fire is way much better/faster.
Reply Quote
05/05/2014 08:01 AMPosted by Magoom
Boss dps/ trash clearing, everything is just slower, math is math and it looks even good on paper...but when i run that builds fire is way much better/faster.


list the gear u used when u tried this build.
Reply Quote
05/05/2014 08:11 AMPosted by CKbrah
05/05/2014 08:01 AMPosted by Magoom
Boss dps/ trash clearing, everything is just slower, math is math and it looks even good on paper...but when i run that builds fire is way much better/faster.


list the gear u used when u tried this build.


CKBrah - why 3 cains when you have the ring?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]