Diablo® III

Dual Wield Socets stack - yes or no?

05/06/2014 12:34 PMPosted by Primus
Easiest way to test:

have a constant mainhand socketed eme wep. Then get an offhand wep with open socket and equip. Now go kill some mobs and and record your highest crit. Try to expand sample until you are sure you already saw the highest crit. Now go back to town and put some eme on that offhand wep you are using. Everything else should be constant. Now go back and kill some more mobs and record highest crit now rhat both wep have eme. Make sure you extend sample until you are comfortable you have already seen the highest crit. Compare results. Problem solved.

Came to post this, you beat me to it. I am on my phone at the moment and cannot test
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05/09/2014 09:11 PMPosted by Rutagur
It's really simple. He made a false assumption and then spread it around. Then when overwhelming evidence is presented against him, pride prevents him from admitting he was wrong. Suddenly sockets for level 70 legendary items are different than normal sockets. Grasping at straws. It's not blizzard's responsibility to disprove every single theory players have. If perhaps evidence was presented...


Close, but it's more something like this:

He got into a flame war eons ago about 2h v dual-wield 1h. He got his dainty feelings hurt. Now, he has a chip on his shoulder against dual-wielding, so he makes a video and basically makes up crap to discourage other people from dual-wielding. It's revenge of the nerds part 5.
Edited by Lucidity#1679 on 5/9/2014 9:31 PM PDT
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05/09/2014 09:26 PMPosted by Tartarus
05/06/2014 12:34 PMPosted by Primus
Easiest way to test:

have a constant mainhand socketed eme wep. Then get an offhand wep with open socket and equip. Now go kill some mobs and and record your highest crit. Try to expand sample until you are sure you already saw the highest crit. Now go back to town and put some eme on that offhand wep you are using. Everything else should be constant. Now go back and kill some more mobs and record highest crit now rhat both wep have eme. Make sure you extend sample until you are comfortable you have already seen the highest crit. Compare results. Problem solved.

Came to post this, you beat me to it. I am on my phone at the moment and cannot test


I've already done this for you:

http://youtu.be/EaJBVaHEcMc
(please excuse the terrible quality)

I'll save you the counting (I can link the spreadsheet if you want as well):

Offhand with Gem:
Sample Size 51 crits
Highest Damage 63
Lowest Damage 23
Average Damage 41.84313725

Offhand with No Gem:
Sample Size 53 crits
Highest Damage 45
Lowest Damage 18
Average Damage 30.96226415

Notes: 21 shots from the gem weapon did more than 45 damage (which is the highest the non gem did). The lowest damage from the gem weapon is 23 while 9 shots from the non gem weapon were below this.

You'll notice my offhand weapons have identical damage range between the gem and no gem and my main hand remains constant.
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[Edit] you are all still miles away from understanding.
low level items you are using dont prove or disprove the behavior of end game items in real time. I have fairly extensive insight into game design."throttle" and "goo" very real things and often coded as backdoors to prevent rng from being carried away specially in end game mechanics. This is called "run-time" game balancing. A technique employed by many many games..

That is what I am trying to get Blizzard to admit or come clean. Whether its run time game balancing or emeralds not stacking the behavior is often observed by majority of players but blamed on the roll of the dice. Its not just about emeralds not stacking there are "several" other instances where evidences of RTB can be observed. Including but not limited to effective crit dampening, enchanting of red tape "protected" stats, not even going to go into player pattern profiling.. if I carry on with more information your little heads will go into overload.
I dont have the time to answer everyone of your questions I have a corporation of my own to run..

You cant hide behind rng forever..If I am wrong, I am wrong I will correct myself in the next vlog but your math examples are just a spec in the dirt for me.. but I need to hear what Blizzard has to say about this in correlation with runtime pattern based adjustments of gameplay. Its an ethical issue for me now specially with all the rng noise going on the radar. Its better to clarify now than much later after next few patches. Bottomline, I still love D3 , I always have and always will. but certain things have indeed curdled the flavor lately a bit.
Edited by Gyouskotan on 5/11/2014 6:27 AM PDT
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It stacks, yes.
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05/09/2014 10:52 PMPosted by rokh
[Edit] you are all still miles away from understanding.
low level items you are using dont prove or disprove the behavior of end game items in real time. I have fairly extensive insight into game design."throttle" and "goo" very real things and often coded as backdoors to prevent rng from being carried away specially in end game mechanics. This is called "run-time" game balancing. A technique employed by many many games..

That is what I am trying to get Blizzard to admit or come clean. Whether its run time game balancing or emeralds not stacking the behavior is often observed by majority of players but blamed on the roll of the dice. Its not just about emeralds not stacking there are "several" other instances where evidences of RTB can be observed. Including but not limited to effective crit dampening, enchanting of red tape "protected" stats, not even going to go into player pattern profiling.. if I carry on with more information your little heads will go into overload.
I dont have the time to answer everyone of your questions I have a corporation of my own to run..

You cant hide behind rng forever..If I am wrong, I am wrong I will correct myself in the next vlog but your math examples are just a spec in the dirt for me.. but I need to hear what Blizzard has to say about this in correlation with runtime pattern based adjustments of gameplay. Its an ethical issue for me now specially with all the rng noise going on the radar. Its better to clarify now than much later after next few patches. Bottomline, I still love D3 , I always have and always will. but certain things have indeed curdled the flavor lately a bit.

[Edit] You have tested nothing. Your "insight" is as insightful as my 3 month old nephew's constant blank stare. Someone crapped on your 2-handed love parade long ago and now you your MO is to make up a bunch of false crap to "get back" at those who WRONGED YOU ! You write so much but speak so little. Evidence, you say ? People have been asking you for evidence for the last 4 pages now, yet you have nothing other than your tin-foil hat theories about "throttle" and "goo" (wtf is goo ?)

Boo-freaking-hoo. I thought you were done with this thread ? Go back to your mom's basement and run your corporation. We're obviously not worthy of you and your ego.

05/09/2014 04:11 PMPosted by rokh
I agree my undermining of the one handers has something to do with some hostile history


Oh WAHHH !!! someone call the freaking wambulance to heal his hurt from the prior hostile history !
Edited by Gyouskotan on 5/11/2014 6:28 AM PDT
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And if I repeat my exact same test with a crafted Blizbolter and Hallowed Condemnation where I roll off the bonus damage for sockets, will you claim that crafted level 70 legendary weapons sockets are different than level 70 legendary weapons that drop?

What other "faults" will you find with evidence provided? You are the one not providing a single piece of evidence Rokh other than your "experience." If someone wants to disprove a known fact that the MAJORITY of players accept as fact, it is your responsibility to provide evidence, not the other way around.
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Rokh: I am wrong


I've repeatedly asked you to provide tangible evidence to back up your claim, you've repeatedly either chosen to ignore said request or you have no such example to provide.

Under the current circumstance I'm convinced the latter is the case, having given you multiple opportunities to prove yourself in a concise manner.

Please refrain from making false unproven statements in the future.

You are not helping the community when making rash claims with no backing, you're simply serving to confuse the average player who casually skims the forums etc every once in a blue moon. I'd like to think that it is not your intent to provide misinformation and confuse other players so please refrain from doing so until you have some hard evidence proving your claims.
Edited by Ohm#1462 on 5/10/2014 8:01 AM PDT
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We really need 2 DH forums.

Forum 2.
DW emeralds don't stack and are independent.
We can talk about how the Earth is flat, How the Nats set bonus doesn't actually add 7% CC to both weapons just to the slayer, and argue about any build or item safe in the knowledge that facts are completely irrelevant and our opinion and the "facts" we present, no matter how misinformed, are just as valid as everyone elses.


LOL this is gold.

9 Pages of this too. Damn..haven't seen such a heat debate since a certain someone from the eu server stopped posting.
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Well i think i know why Rokh does believe they won't stack etc.

I try to keep it simple if i make a mistake pls point it out.
Pls keep in mind i try to keep it as simple as possible.

My (Bellfire) offhand deals 1100-1900 dmg ( i assume i wear this as mainhand, after my example i show u why)
Rokhs bow deals 1400-2300dmg

My average ~1500 dmg
His average ~1850 dmg

I have currently +457% crit damage.
Without the second gem, obviously just +327%

This means when i crit with a simple average shot i deal 7798 damage.
When i simply equip his bow i will deal with an average shot 7899.5 damage.

Since the base damage of the 2hander is higher, the 130% isn't much the different , however take the math to my mainhand Dawn (for some reasons, the ingame dps is higher even the base damage, maybe the + 9% damage isnt calculated, so i dont use it. rokhs 10% percent arent calculated aswell. obviouly he would deal a bit more dmg.) :
the browser version says
1200-2100 damage
average~ 1650
1650 * 557 = 9190.5 damge.

So an average rolled (maybe even under average) 1hander crits almost the same in DW then a 2hander ( i think he rolled a pretty good one there dunno)
But the 2hander then have a quiver again.. i think thats what he means.
Hopefully my math is correct and understandable^^

Since it bothered me here are the damage lists WITH +% damage =

Rokhs Bow
1400-2300 +10% = 1540-2530 average about 2000 * 4.27 = 8540
My dawn
1200-2100 +9% = 1308-2289 average about 1700 * 5.57 = 9469

However lets say we use a skill that deals.... 500% weapon damge :
Rokhs bow
avarage 2000 * 5 = 10000 now lets crit *4.27 42700
My Dawn
average 1700 * 5 = 8500 now lets crit *5.57 47435
My weak Balefire
average
1500 *5 = 7500 crit *5.57 41775

So actually i think thats why he thinks the second emerald isn't calculated, ppl forget that, sinces these rather small flat damage difference scales out quite big. if im not mistaken , the more crit damage u get the 2hander gets better (compared to DW) and better if all my math +conclusions are right.. Rokh may be right at some point, but he had ABSOLUTELY no clue why ..
Now the question is is it worth/possible to get SO much critdamage that actually 2handers> DW?
(we need a graph but i'm too lazy ;C )
And since the most quivers have Attack Speed and/or CC MAYBE this will make 2handers better at some point... u dont crit as high as with DW but more often or faster (depends on build, gear etc ) since my math was just the sheer average crit damage thats no dps at all :)

And please keep in mind = i didn't calculated a quiver to the offhand with his bow.
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and remember archfiend quiver+ ubound can be 45% critdamage.... makes it even closer.
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Woooooooooooow.......... just....... wooooooooooow.

This thread is definitely something special. Requested sticky.
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